Andrew,
Would you feel the same way if you were the Taltheran player and this w as happening to your society?
Joel
Andrew Janssen wrote:
--- Joel Elfman wrote:
> Ibrahim,
>
> You might be absolutely right!
> Since it was perhaps my mistaken impression that a good percentage of
> the Taltheran navy had rebeled and joined the Kaier, it is my
> personal opinion if you wrote orders for that portion of the navy you
> are in technical violation of the rules. On the other hand as I have
> stated if you change your orders slightly and write them as if the
> Kaieran Naval officers on rebel ships are giving commands to the
> rebel portion of the Taltheran navy you are entirely w/in the rules.
> You are only writing orders for your people and the Taltherans make a
> die roll to respond. It creates some interesting twists and turns,
> and can have some effect on actions.
I think we may be making a mountain out of this particular molehill.
No, I don't think you're mistaking about the proportion of Taltheran's
navy that rebelled. But I do think that you may be mistaken about how
it should be handled in game. I see no difference between "writing
orders for that portion of the Navy" and "writing orders for the Naval
officers commanding the ships". Both amount to exactly the same
situation. Given what Ibrahim's shown us about the backstory for the
Kaeiran revolution, there's no justification for Taltheran being able
to have influence on that portion of its Navy that chose to rebel and
leave the parent society. Any officers or seamen assigned the Kaeir
naval sqaudrons who was loyal to Agrigax would have been either fled to
the mainland, or more likely were "purged" in the coup. Given the
Kaeiran tradition of Piracy before Taltheran took them over, I'm sure
they have no shortage of sailors.
I guess I don't see the problem here. I mean, I assume that when
Ibrahim wanted to play Kaeir, he talked to one of the GMs about his
concept for the society, and one of them OK'd it. If that's not true,
then I agree, we need a ruling, although I'm inclined to let stand
what's already been written. Perhaps every turn that passes before
Kaeir uses an action to specifically tighten control on their new navy,
the GM should check to see if a major portion counterrebels & returns
to Taltheran, but any such check should happen at the beginning of the
game year, *before* actions are sent in, as part of the usual check for
any "special" events.
Andrew Janssen
> It would be nice if some day the GMs or Juuso came along and issued
> some clarificatons.
>
> Joel
>
> Ibrahim Dughlas-gani wrote:
> Joel,
>
> I understand the points you are making, but think the problem is
> simply confusion between the two of us.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joel Elfman
> Date: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:22 am
> Subject: Re: [Cel] GMs Please Respond - Are We Bending or Altering
> the Rules?
>
> > Ibrahim,
> >
> > I love the stuff you have written, your ideas are extremely
> > well-written and well thoughtout.
> >
> > I will reiterate two of the points that I think are in
> > question and I at least would like clarification from the GM.
> >
> > First, spy networks take time to develop, a long time in many
> > cases. It has been my experience from playing previously, that
> > if you don't usually get a spy network unless you build it.
> An organised republican intelligence network ("Information
> Secretariat") is very new. In fact, little more than a year old.
>
> As for the assassin business, that has nothing to do with
> Kaeireanism.
>
> >
> > Second, you can not write orders for another society, unless the
> > GM gives permission. For example, you can write actions for your
> > commanders giving the rebel Taltheran navy orders but you can not
> > write orders directly for the navy. It might just be a
> > distinction in how orders are written but it does make a
> > difference in the game and has made a difference in the past.
>
> I'm not proposing to write orders for another society. Merely the one
> i'm operating from within.
>
> During the Kaeirean revolution that overthrow Agrigax's son in the
> new Principality of Kaeir (piratical Kaeir having been conquered 10+
> years earlier), a portion of the Taltherani fleet joined the
> republican cause (largely, the squadrons stationed in Port Kaeir).
> The Kaeirean Guard, formerly the personal troops of the Taltherani
> Crown Prince, were also under the republican banner, being the prime
> conspirators in initiating the revolution. Completion of the
> revolution would require bringing the rest of Taltheran under the
> Republican Green, either through popular revolt or conquest.
>
> All of these actions are within the polity of Taltheran, and
> constitute a civil war. The factor that would determine success or
> failure would be support of the merchant and noble Houses on the
> _mainland_, for either the Royalist or Republican banner.
>
> Kaeir/Kaeirean is used here in the same sense as the "Paris Commune",
> that shortlived socialist revolt last century in France. Now that was
> not a separate society, but an attempt at a separate form of
> government. The Commune was thoroughly French, but called the _Paris_
> Commune because it began in _Paris_.
>
> Having said that, a final say by the GM would allow everyone to get
> on with the game, adjusting where necessary to any new limitations.
>
> Hope you're all having a dandy weekend.
>
> Ibrahim Underwood
>
>
>
>
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