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RulingNations@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/19/03 6:30:39 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes:
>>RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
>
>>12 TRAITS:
>>
>>SCOPE is the size and population of the society and its components
>
>Based on some of the discussions we've been having on the list lately,
>I really think that instead of Scope being one number, we need two: one
>number for area, and one for population. The current rules make the
>assumption that societies with large populations occupy proportionally
>large land areas (when your society is a nation). This doesn't do
>justice to the variety of societies we have here.

That's where being able to subdivide capacities comes in. Scope is a can
be divided into Population, Area, and Reach. You could also subdivide
for sub-areas or different races. But you subdivide only if required,
most of the time the summary Scope covers what's needed.


>>RESOURCES is the wealth and knowledge available to a society
>
>Again, might want to subdivide Resources into, say, Agricultural and
>Industrial. How well can you feed your people and how well can you
>"feed" your industries?

That's more along the line of Development. However, I personally would
rather have economic factors like this taken care of automatically. I
feel that the more control a player has over economic factors, the more
unrealistic (and less fun) a game gets. I'd like to hear the other side
though.

>>DEVELOPMENT is what a society is capable of, its economy
>
>Are you talking about tech levels here?

Nope, tech levels are knowledge which falls under resources.

>>CONTROL is the measure of how much a society dominates its members
>
>Perhaps an axis running from anarchy on one extreme to totalitarianism
>on the other? On the other hand, I forget exactly where I first read
>this, but I think most political scientists believe that you need two
>axes, social and economic, to accurately portray political viewpoints.
>The classic example would be the American liberal who favors minimal
>governmental interference with social behavior but wants heavily
>regulated markets opposed to the American conservative who wants heavy
>regulation of social behavior but minimal government interference with
>markets. Someone who feels that government shouldn't be involved in
>regulating anything would probably be an anarchist, while someone who
>favors heavy government involvement in all aspects of life is likely a
>totalitarian.

Control isn't a matter of politics it's a matter of police, bureaucracy,
laws, and so forth. (Of course, if a society's Control exceeds it's
Tractability, problems are likely.)

>>AGGRESSION is the amount of violence in a society
>
>Is this internal violence, reflecting tension within a society, or
>external violence, directed at neighbors?

Both, plus how much training in violence is present in a society.

>>COMMUNALISM is the amount a society de-emphasizes individuality
>
>Being American, I'd probably just call this Individuality; the greater
>the number on the positive side, the more individualistic, while the
>farther negative you go, the more communalist you become.

I made the list with the idea that high values were generally better
from a society's perspective. Certainly Individuality would be easier to
describe, but a high communalism makes things easier for a society.

[snip]

>>PROVIDENCE is the amount of long-term thinking in a society
>
>Maybe Foresight would be a better term? The word "Providence" always
>makes me think of two things: 18th Century Christians and Rhode Island.
>It's kind of a loaded term.

I can see that.

>>TOLERATION is the amount a society accepts those outside itself
>
>Good idea.
>
>>TRACTABILITY measures how willing the population is to be ruled
>
>We kind of have this already, as the Consent determinant that each Key
>Element receives, indicating how much popular support they have. I
>don't think we need to add Tractability; the current method allows more
>flexibility.

The problem is that I don't really see how the consent of key elements
is supposed to be used.

>>UNIFORMITY measures how much a society isn't divided internally
>
>Another good idea. In our world, Japan and Korea would probably come
>close to the maximum value for Uniformity, the US would be down near
>the low end (because of our ethnic diversity and deep political
>divisions), while countries with civil wars and strong separatist
>movements like Afghanistan, Indonesia, and the Congo would be well into
>negative numbers.
>
>>If a player (or GM) wishes these traits can be subdefined. For
>>example, Control might be divided into Bureaucracy, Law Enforcement,
>>and Social Stratification. Military forces would be based on scope,
>>and Resources could be divided into Food, Gold, Iron and the like.
>>
>>6 SKILLS:
>>
>>A Society's skills are it's ability to _do_ things (as opposed to
>>traits
>>which are it's ability to _be_ things). Using the Crafts model:
>>
>>ARTS deals with non-practical, but often morale-building, matters
>>BIOLOGY deals with living things (agronomy, medicine, etc.)
>>MILITARY deals with combat and espionage
>>PARANATURALISM deals with magic and mysticism
>>MANUFACTURE deals with physical items (weapons, transportation, etc.)
>>PSYCHOLOGY deals with people's minds (advertising, diplomacy, trade,
>>etc.)
>
>Another possible division, more in keeping with the general level of
>development in Midsea:
>ARTS, as above.
>MILITARY, as above.
>MAGECRAFT, as Paranaturalism.

What about religious magic?

>INDUSTRY, as Manufacture.
>AGRICULTURE, self-evident.
>PHILOSOPHY, the mind.
>NATURAL PHILOSOPHY, the sciences & most social sciences, but see below.
>POLITICAL ECONOMY, political science & economics (in real history,
>political science and economics weren't considered as seperate subjects
>until after 1776, when Adam Smith published _The Wealth of Nations_.
>And at the current level of development in the Midsea(traditional
>economies), it's not inaccurate to consider them the same.)

Other than the above I can see this.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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