--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/6/04 8:31:56 PM Mountain Standard Time, > andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > >--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > >>In a message dated 3/5/04 10:36:50 PM Mountain Standard Time, > >>andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > >>>--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > >>>>In a message dated 3/1/04 1:09:36 AM Mountain Standard Time, > >>>>andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes:> >OK, point conceded. I phrased my comment badly; I should have said > that > >I didn't think it was *universally* true. Makes a difference. > > I don't care which is more common. I'm just trying to come up with a > rational that makes sense of the history. However it works, the > situation needs to be explained and the areas where the different > circumstances exist need to be defined. On what level do you want them defined, in-game or out-of-game? It's really easy to lose sight of the distinction between what we as players know, and what our societies know. Given that you're playing a religion, I can see why getting this whole area nailed down is necessary, but how much of what we hammer out here would be known on Celandra? > However, we should notice that we are getting in to the "society" of > the > gods at this point. While there will be some variation, there will > also > be a baseline of common practice, and that common practice will > affect > religions throughout Celandra. > > >>>>5) There are no signs of lesser power gods cooperating to match > the > >>>>power of greater gods. (Again, with the possible exception of the > >>>>Ka'Shari.) > >>> > >>>You mean "matching" as in "ganging up on"? > >> > >>I have no idea what you mean by this. > > > >I meant lesser gods (perhaps we should simply say "beings"?) working > >together to combine their power and displace a greater being. > > ??? > > OK. Lucia has authority over Light, Truth, and Mental Health > (generally > speaking). Suppose three lesser dreaming entities with _individal_ > authority over Light, Truth, and Mind loaned their authority to each > other in order to match Lucia. Such authority would not be strong > enough > to displace Lucia, but it would likely make it not worth the effort > for > Lucia to displace them. As each entity is still an individual they > would > be worshiped as three, not as one. (Though I realize the Eerith would > disagree.) > > For that matter, why doesn't Lucia make an alliance with a lesser > dreaming entity with authority over health? That way she could offer > healing abilities to her servants. > > Why don't, say, 20 or 50 lesser dreaming entities cooperate to > produce a > cult that covers nearly the full range of authority? Such a cult > would > likely be more flexible than one devoted to a single entity. My provisional explanation was, "Because the Creator said so." I realize that this is neither a helpful nor a persuasive statement. :) Seriously, though, I've always felt that there are three differences between "lesser" and "greater" Dreaming Beings. First, given that all Authority magic ultimately comes from the Creator/Shaper and is delegated downward, the fewer steps away from the source of Authority a Being is, the greater its power. Second, "lesser" Beings are more restricted in the uses to which they can put their power, in some cases being limited in the locations in which they can exercise their Authority(like dryads, tied to one particular tree or forest). Third, as Authority passes down the chain, it dilutes. "Lesser" Beings are limited in the magnitude of effects they can produce, partly due to their distance from the Source of Authority. In this conception, the "Lesser" Beings are actually more complex than the "Greater" Beings. The closer a Being is to the Creator, the more elemental in nature it becomes, and the more difficult for humans to understand. An example might be the God(dess) of the Sea: elemental, remote, and unpredictable; not so much worshipped as placated or appeased. One other thing needs to be made clear for this explanation. IIRC, on the Celandra webpages dealing with magic, the point is brought up that all things everywhere, have a certain amount of Authority passed down and through them automatically. Authority Magic is what humans (or Beings) use when they want to do things which their natural Authority does not entitle them to. > >>>>6) The gods have more control over their cults than the cults > have > >>>>ability to operate independently. > >>> > >>>Again, I don't think this is necessarily true. It may depend on > how > >>>"hands on" the god is. > >> > >>Produce one cult that is factioned where one faction is receiving > >>divine aide while the other is not. (Or something similar.) Also, > >>//When empirical evidence of divine favor is obtainable, how can a > >>cult without that favor survive?// > > > >Um, that's not quite what I meant. What I *meant* to say, was that > >perhaps some Beings, across the board, are less involved than > others, > >in the sense that while they provide their clerics with the power to > do > >magic, they don't get involved in the day-to-day operations of the > >religion, provided that the cult's behavior stays within certain > broad > >bounds. In contrast, some Beings may be micromanagers by > temperament. > > But that doesn't have anything to do with premise 6. I think we may be having a "same words, different definitions" problem here: you're using words like "control" and "operate" one way, but I'm not understanding those words with the meaning you intended. I interpreted premise 6 to mean: "The gods/Beings have more control over day-to-day cult/religion operations than the priests/cultists have the ability to operate without regular divine input." It *seems* to me now, that you might have meant something more along the lines of: "A cult needs a sponsoring Being in order to be effective and thrive." Is that closer to what you meant? If it is, I agree. If it isn't, then what does premise 6 mean? Andrew __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
