In a message dated 7/11/04 12:09:07 AM Mountain Daylight Time, andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: >RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > >I think that a part of the problem is that the existing rules for >societal expansion are designed for nation-states, not religions or >other NGOs. Nation-states do find it harder to grow as they grow; IIRC >it's something like a logarithmic curve, starting out very quickly and >then decelerating over time. Yes. Essentially its a problem that as internal distances increase, borders increase even faster. Nations without this problem, like one founded at one end of a long skinny island and expanding down its length, or one based on colonies who lose borders when they join together, tend to maintain relatively steady rates of growth. (Territory Good! Borders Bad!) >With nations, one of the limits on growth is the speed of >communication. As a society expands to occupy more and more area, the >communications lag between the core and the fringe eventually reaches a >point where the society becomes so large it fractures; witness the >Roman Empire. There are other factors, of course, but communication lag >is important. That's why all the great empires of history, with the >notable exception of Pharonic Egypt and Imperial Russia, have been >great road builders: good roads allow the rulers to project their power >and communicate quickly. Egypt didn't build many roads because they >used the Nile; as for Russia, the Tsars and the Soviets kept most of >their roads unpaved because from their point of view, roads were not so >much tools for internal control as they were pathways for invaders. Communications are important, but they are also subject to a great many variables. The same communication techniques that allowed China to control one of the greatest empires in the world only allowed moderately large kingdoms in Indonesia. >Communication lag in our world has posed similar problems for religions: >witness the factions and heresies of Christianity, and the change in >Buddhism as one moves from India, to Nepal, to Tibet, to China, to >Japan. However, at present, this communications lag should not be as >much of a problem for Exquaestio, assuming they have a magical means of >rapid communication. They don't at present, although they should develop one within the next decade. However, this is why growth beyond Junder has basically restricted itself to coastal areas. By using established trade routes Exquaestio can basically keep message turn around time to less than 6 weeks between even the farthest portions of their organization, which works fine for the loose administration they currently have. >The reason why the current rules don't really work for describing >Exquaestio's expansion is that they appear to assume that when a >society grows in Scope, it's gaining members _and land_. Exquaestio is >trying to gain members, but unless I've missed something, at the >moment, you're almost exclusively working in the Free Cities, so you're >not trying to grab land. We're not exclusively in the Free Cities, but, outside that area, the largest group is the 38 in Tanimbar. (This number is likely to grow rapidly. Tanimbar's high religious tolerance and low religious sophistication make it as ripe for Exquaestio conversion as Ireland was for Christianity.) But I look at is as using a different strategy of increasing population. The four strategies are: Reproduction, Assimilation, Conversion, and Conquest. Each strategy has its own problems and benefits. By using a conversion strategy, Exquaestio isn't tying up its membership like it would with a conquest strategy. >In other words, for a nation, it's not the gaining of population that >makes expansion in Scope harder the bigger a society already is; it's >the acquiring of the land and resources to support the increase in >population that makes the difficulty. So, since Exquaestio's newly >recruited members are, presumably, still citizens of whichever Free City >they live in, Exquaestio doesn't need to worry about supporting those >new members as a nation would have to worry. Yes, but this is also a major reason why, when many of its areas are wealthy, Exquaestio itself is poor. Surpluses are going to the local government, not to Exquaestio. >>Local and ethnic religions like Judaism and Sikhism have no relevance to >>the existing circumstances. Religions based on personally following a >>particular religious leader are also irrelevant. > >This may be a stupid question, but why are they irrelevant, exactly? Exquaestio is multinational and multicultural, it might be forced into the mode of an ethnic religion, but it currently doesn't work that way. Personal following of a charismatic leader don't apply to Exquaestio because most of the membership have not and will not meet the head of the church. >>So, by dismissing Buddhism and Islam and not giving any further >>guidelines you are saying, "There's no such thing as a typical religion >>and you're going to have to read my mind." > >Well, I don't know what Juuso thinks, but I'd say "Yes, there is no such >thing as a typical religion." As far as the first tier are concerned, in >every case, unique circumstances propelled them on to the world stage. >For many of them, their success depended on the right person being in >the right place at the right time. You can't say that "Such-and-so is a >necessary requirement for a religion to become great," because the role >of chance is too great and cannot be ignored. The great religions all >have unique stories; only in the little religions can you make >predictions and generalizations. I disagree. For one, all the great religions had no difficulty making converts in their early days. The specifics were unique in each case, but they can be boiled down to fulfilling a need which wasn't being met. So basically, if a new religion doesn't start out fast its not going to go anywhere. >I may not be clear about this, but then, religion is a subject about >which clarity is difficult. [snip] >As far as wasting them [Fudge Points] goes, you can always earn more. Not easily. I was waiting for my Fudge Points to go from seven to eight since December. >The real waste is earning them, but not using them. Personally, I think >it might not be a bad idea to either put a cap on the maximum number of >Fudge Points a player can have in their pool, or, alternatively, a "use >it or lose it" rule whereby if you sit on your Fudge Points too long, >they "leak" out--the window of opportunity slipping away. If either of these proposals are adopted I will be quitting the game. First, how Fudge Points are gained has nothing to do with when they might be used. Second, it biases the game toward people who are good earning points, regardless of whether they are good at spending them. Personally, most of the uses of Fudge Points I have seen are wasteful. [snip] >>I have stated and restated what Exquaestio offers. Since those >>statements were ignored I have had no choice except to use actions to >>state what those offers are. Since by decreasing the rate of growth you >>have given me fewer actions those definitions come extremely slowly. > >Again, you probably mentioned this before, but what does Exquaestio >offer converts? I only ask because there was a period a few months ago >when Yahoo! was dumping about half the messages from the list into my >Bulk E-mail folder, and I might have missed that particular posting. Other than political power in the local government, nothing has been mentioned which other religions offer that isn't offered by Exquaestio. More specifically Exquaestio offers: 1) Education: All clergy (anradan, espiri, rohain) are responsible for basic education. The primary subjects are Literacy, Mathematics, and Combat (with a leavening of Philosophy, primarily morality, magic, and theology). Education is not free, but little more than a token payment is required. Because so little is asked, most clergy must support themselves in another manner. However, even an hour an evening is more teaching than is available to most people outside Exquaestio. 2) Community: A member of Exquaestio gains a title (Quaesto for men, Quaesta for women), just like a noble. They know that they are part of a growing organization spread over many nations and into the Dreaming. They know that each individual is important and together they are working to fulfill a destiny currently unimaginable. The clergy cooperate and listen to the members. Members need not be afraid of magic because the espiri and rohain are under the authority of anradan, who have no magic. 3) Protection: Any person or community can call upon the rohain for protection from the supernatural. If needed, a community can even _create_ rohain, although such will still have to be trained. Clergy will even interfere with the local government on occasion. 4) Magic: Though weak, magic is relatively common within Exquaestio. Members are not mere onlookers in the face of magic, they are encouraged to participate, and know that some effects can only be produced with their aide. The membership also knows that Exquaestio's magical abilities are expanding. Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
