--- Jefferson  wrote:

> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> > Jefferson wrote:
> > 
> >>SQUIRE ABILITIES:



> >>KNIGHT ABILITIES:

> >>Pastsense: allows a rohain to see how an object or area was used in
> the past. 
> >>  Can see a person's past when combined with Mindsense.
> > 
> > 
> > Mindsense by itself should be okay, since there are already
> established 
> > groups in Celandra with similar powers.  However, Pastsense, like 
> > Foresense, may be problematic because of the prohibition of 
> > Time-affecting magics.  Now, I don't think the exact rules on this
> have 
> > even been explicitly laid out, but the impression I've always had
> is 
> > that looking into the Past is just as impermissable as looking into
> the 
> > future.  The only way to find out what happened in the past in a 
> > location is to find someone who was there, and ask them. This may 
> > require necromancy, if you want to know what happened 2000 years
> ago.
> 
> Are you saying that magic can't be used to store information?

Not necessarily, but as far as I know, this hasn't been addressed. If a
particularly violent, magical, or memorable event occured in a
location, it might leave some sort of imprint that could be accessible,
but my gut feeling is that you would not be able to, say, go to a
battlefield and hit a metaphysical "rewind" button and see everything
that happened, nor could you pick up a sword and use Pastsense to
determine who last wielded it, unless the last person to wield the
sword used it to, say, kill a dragon or tyrant or something similar.

> > Also, the interaction of Mindsense and Pastsense to reveal a
> person's 
> > past may also be problematic in other ways, but this is addressed
> in the 
> >   discussion of Farspeech.
> > 
> >>PALADIN ABILITIES:
> >>
> >>Farleap: is a personal teleporation ability.
> >>
> >>Farsend: is a teleportation ability which transports small objects
> and magical 
> >>effects over distances.
> >>
> >>Farsense: allows a rohain to sense distance location without
> traveling there.
> > 
> > I see no reason why these shouldn't be possible, but telportation
> of 
> > anything bigger than a breadbox, and especially of anything living,
> 
> > should require the expenditure of a considerable amount of energy.

Jason did a much better job of discussing this in his post.

> >>Farspeech: allows rohain to communicate over long distances.  Most
> can only 
> >>communicate with other rohain, but some can "speak" with anyone.
> > 
> > This power could be very problematic.  After doing some re-reading
> of 
> > old posts, long-distance projective telepathy seems to only be 
> > acceptable in Celandra if mediated by a divine power. If Farspeech
> works 
> > like an old-fashioned telephone exchange, where Rohain A tells
> Feroze(or 
> > a servitor) that he wants to talk to Rohain B, and the Being then 
> > completes the connection for Rohain A and breaks it when the 
> > conversation ends, that would be fine.  There would definitely be
> no 
> > problem if the communication was through, say, mirrors or flames,
> rather 
> > than a mind-to-mind link.
> > 
> > However, if Farspeech works as a direct mind-to-mind link
> unmediated by 
> > divine Authority, if it is pure telepathy, then there would be big 
> > problems. If the Eerith found out about it, they would almost
> certainly 
> > do everything in their power to prevent rohains with Farspeech from
> 
> > using the power.  And it's a safe bet that most of the other
> Dreaming 
> > beings, certainly all the Cedonian gods and their servants, would 
> > support the Eerith in their actions.
> 
> Farspeech isn't pure telepathy.  In the most extreme cases it's
> verbal 
> telepathy only.  In the most basic case it's disembodied voices that
> only be 
> percieved through Spiritsense.  I didn't think this would cause
> problems, but 
> there are things I can do to tone down the power if neccesary.

That might be okay, as long as the link is achieved by use of
god-granted Authority. It's telepathy that's powered solely by the
telepath's Will that gets the Eerith and the gods worked up.

> >>Fartouch: gives a rohain the ability to sense dimensional effects
> like gates 
> >>and teleports, the presence of gods, and aspects of the "physical"
> relations 
> >>between the area and the Dreaming.
> >>
> >>CHAMPION ABILITIES:
> >>
> >>Dreamshadows: generates illusions.
> >>
> >>Dreamwalk: allows a rohain to travel between the Dreaming and
> Celandra.
 
> > Does the rohain enter the Dreaming in body or in spirit? Cedonian 
> > clerics can enter the Dreaming in spirit while sleeping, but AFAIK,
> the 
> > only way for a Celandran to physically enter the Dreaming is to go 
> > through a Gate, because the material substance of the body strongly
> 
> > resists being pulled out of Celandra. It's a lot easier to go from
> the 
> > Dreaming to Celandra than it is to go from Celandra to the
> Dreaming.
> 
> Dreamwalk allows the rohain to enter the Dreaming in body.  This says
> nothing 
> about what he finds when he gets there.  Without a great deal of
> cultural 
> effort this might be the equivalent of falling off a pier strapped to
> a 50 lb. 
> rock.

Jason addressed this in his post, and I think I agree with him. Native
Celandrans should only be able to physically enter the Dreaming through
a Gate, while beings that are native to the Dreaming can transition
more or less at will. However, a race like the Vraa'al who have
more-or-less permanently emigrated to Celandra will eventually become
tied enough to Celandra that they lose the ability to freely pass from
one realm to the other.

The ability to project one's spirit into the Dreaming, on the other
hand, is not so restricted, since the Dreaming is the native realm of
all things spiritual. The risky part of visiting the Dreaming in spirit
would be returning to the body again, actually.

> >>Dreamshare: give a rohain the ability to "take over" a person's
> mind while in 
> >>Spiritform.
> > 
> > Eep! This power suffers from the same potential problems as
> Farspeech, 
> > in spades. To take over a person's mind would require that the
> rohain 
> > establish Authority over the other's mind. This would require, at a
> 
> > minimum, the person's consent, and the consent of that person's god
> or 
> > gods, and possibly the agreement of Coron, who, while not
> responsible 
> > for all souls, nevertheless takes an extremely dim view of any act
> which 
> > interferes with anyone's soul, before or after death.
> 
> Yes.  I overlooked that.  It should read, "gives a rohain the ability
> to "take 
> over" a creature's _body_ while in Spiritform.  The target's mind
> remains with 
> the body and may resist the controlling rohain.  The rohain can
> communicate 
> with the target's mind with Farspeech."

This is still problematic. Even with the revision from "mind" to
"body", the rohain would still be interfering with the soul's link to
its body, and the use of this power on unconsenting sentient targets
would still draw down divine wrath(possibly with extreme prejudice) on
the rohain who makes the attempt. While it might be possible to use
this power on animals and get away with your life, anyone using this
power would quickly draw the (negative) attention of the gods.

> > Attempting to use the Dreamshare power on an unconsenting person
> would 
> > bring the wrath of Coron and the Eerith, and the wrath of any other
> 
> > interested Beings, down upon the rohain who attempted such an act.
> > 


Andrew
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