ibrahim wrote: > Rereading the postings about technology levels in Qaiyore, and wikipedia > articles on naval technology. According our most recent discussions, > transport technology in Qaiyore is 15-17. The more sophisticated > seafaring societies being at 17, with "COMPASS, LATEEN SAIL (sailing > into wind), Double-masted Ships, & STERN POST RUDDERS (for steering)". > > Level 18 includes 3-masted ship (excluding carracks and caravels > therefore from Qaiyore), so the most advanced sailing ship available > would be a 2 masted sailing vessels, be they Arab style dhows or > two-masted galleys with oars. This is one of those places where the Aria development scale is screwy. Stern-post rudders actually postdate 3-masted vessels by a good deal, and the galleon used a steering oar not a rudder. The rudder mention can probably be replaced with frame construction replacing shell construction, though I don't recall exactly when this development took place. I was also under the impression that carracks and caravels _were_ two-masted ships. Certainly the portuguese exploration vessels were two-masted vessels, whatever they were called. > Thus, in terms of naval technology, is the Midsea at an equivalent to > the 14th century technology of the Mediterranean? Anything past this > period would see the advent of 3-masted ships (carracks, caravels, > galleons and man-o-wars). Yes (but see below). > Asking this as I'm currently trying to work out manpower requirements > for the Kaeirean fleet, and there is a significant difference between > oared galleys with two masts, and multiple masted sailing ships without > oars. > > And in hindsight, sails probably won't completely overtake oar-power > until the advent of gunpowder. Thus I suspect that most Midsea fleets > are dominated by predominantly oar-powered ships. The Midsea is an inland sea, and the ships which travel it can be built much more lightly and cheaply than those intended to travel the outer oceans. I also don't see any strong seafaring nations to promote the building of heavier ships generally suitable for the outer oceans. Without the requirement for the heavier (and more expensive) construction three-masted vessels and stern-post rudders will be a long time coming. However, this doesn't preclude the existence of the sophisticated keels and rigging we associate with three-masted vessels. (Oops, I just remembered the Ka'Shari, who _do_ build ships for the outer oceans. So heavier vessel types would be quite possible, though expense probably keeps many from being built.) Regardless of the availability of galleys, most trade will be carried by sailed vessels. Galleys are warships and hardly ever bothered with more than one mast. However, galleys are not the only form of warship, and are only practical with a sufficient supply of slaves. While "ram and board" galleys are more effective, the Romans proved against the Carthaginians that boarding from sailed vessels can also win naval battles. So, as I hope you can see, the distinction of sail vs. oar isn't quite as clear cut as most people think. The presence of magic aboard a ship also changes things, giving an effective ranged attack. Even if the vessel without a mage is more maneuverable and can close, it will be taking damage before it manages to do any. I imagine the domination of Parglug in the southern MidSea is based on the regular presence of priests of Marmdal aboard their sea craft. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
