Check out: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~loxias/trireme.htm
Athens, a single city-state, expanded its fleet from 40 ships in 489 BC
to 200 ships in 480 BC, which works out to about 17-18 ships built per
year. If we assume that on average Thalsedon, Inibar, and Gomel can each
build as many ships in a year as ancient Athens, we get a total of 51 to
54 ships per year. Adding Vizur would raise that to 68 to 72 ships per year.
The ships that Sedonia's building are somewhat more advanced in
technology, and are not exactly identical to the ancient liburnae,
biremes, triremes, quinqueremes, and deceres that I've labelled them as,
but they're still all wooden galleys, essentially.
See also: http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/grkship.html
Andrew Janssen wrote:
> I did get it from a website, but I didn't bookmark it at the time. I should have; it's hard-to-find information. When I get home from work tonight I can try to track it down.
>
> Andrew
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Heaps
> To: celandra@phoenyx.net
> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:47:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cel] Sedonia's Navy
>
>
> Okay. That is what I wanted to know.
>
>
> BTW out of curiosity do you have website with this information or a book you are getting it from, so that I can look at it in the future?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jason Heaps
>
> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> Is this a change to 1460 or 1461?
>
> As far as plausibility, my sources indicated that in our RW history, it
> took 4 to six months to construct ships of the type the Sedonian Navy
> uses. Based on the number of building slips available, most of which
> were concentrated in Thalsedon, Gomel, & Inibar, I figured on 2 to 5
> years, min-max, to triple the pre-war fleet ship count. Frankly, I'd
> assumed that personnel training, not shipbuilding, would be the limiting
> factor.
>
> Vizur's advantage in shipbuilding lay not in the number of yards, but in
> its proximity to raw materials.
>
> And no, I'm not going to change my write-up retroactively. Largely
> because I'd rather spend my time writing new stuff than revisiting old
> stuff. However, see my reasoning below:
>
> The way I saw the battle of Zelkor playing out was that the ships that
> were destroyed were the "heavy" ships, quinquiremes and deceres. Those
> ships had very large crews and were intended as mobile siege artillery
> platforms for bombarding harbors, not fleet battles. Being large, slow,
> and difficult to maneuver, they would have taken the brunt of the
> casualties in a fleet engagement.
>
> Working the math, if all 3 of Sedonia's deceres and all 9 of the
> quinqueremes were lost with all hands, that works out to a loss of 28.5%
> of the ships and 41.7% of the men. More realisticly, say Sedonia lost 14
> ships and 42% to 45% of its men. That would mean Zelkor lost 2 ships
> (based on the 1:7 ratio from the battle result)
>
> Replacing those 14 ships would take on average 5 months (since the
> Sedonian navy isn't replacing deceres with deceres, or quinqueremes with
> quinqueremes, but with triremes), meaning it would take a single slip
> ~70 months to build 14 ships.
>
> If we disregard Vizur's six ship building slips, that still leaves 36
> slips in the other ports, each of which can build about 2 ships in a
> year, assuming parts & labor are available. The yards combined could
> replace the 14 lost ships, and still build 58 more.
>
> Anyway, you are quite right about the time factor--given weather and
> training needs, the full blockading squadron wouldn't be fully on
> station until very late spring, early summer at the earliest, more
> likely midsummer although they'd probably have a partial squadron
> observing the port from the beginning of the year.
>
> That's more than enough time for Tanimbar to slip at least one convoy in
> if they can move quickly enough.
>
> Andrew
>
> Jason Heaps wrote:
>
>>Okay. I have had both Ethan and Doug point this out and question the actualy plossiblitly of Sedonia in a year being able to bring their navy to pre-battle levels, even with a +3 being able to rebuild the lost fleet and and train effective sailors in a year is a stretch of the imagination.
>>
>>I am sorry I should have caught this earlier, but with a stressful decemeber, it is my fault. Sorry Andrew.
>>
>>Okay the rebuilding the ships actions did come out with a +3 but with a normal difficulty. Then there is the subpart.
>>
>>+ Supply construction materials +
>>+ Construct ships 0
>>+ Recruit sailors +
>>+ Train sailors +
>>
>>The only thing that I would change from Andrew wright up is that the ships are not yet at pre battle levels, unless we are looking at a very small number of ships. One thing to keep in mind is that the Vizur was raided, and most of the damage would be in the harbor area so ships would be slower in building down there.
>>
>>I would say that while the ships are not at pre battle levels, but the amount of sailors, and training is higher then pre-battle levels. Unless Juuso disagrees.
>>
>>Also for the sack of clarification, I would imagin that Andrew would agree with this, even with the sedonian fleet leaving at the begining of the year it would take two to three months for the fleet to completly arrive, and for them to install the bloackade.
>>
>>Again sorry Andrew
>>
>>Jason Heaps
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
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