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Celandra is a game in which the players take the roles of societies, rather than playing individual characters. The players will invent a society with its culture and heritage, and will guide its development and interaction with the world. Emphasis will be be placed on developing a detailed history of Celandra, along with myths and legends.
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MkeAton
Archangel

Thu

Dec 2
1999

06:32Z

[Main] Various Admin (mk: more admin., map stuff, and nomenclature)

Several replies, see below.

Mapping:  over 1100 stellar objects are within 50ly plus even more
interstellar phenomena like nebulas.  I'm going to try and get map which
highlights only major features of human space ready for us to use initially
which includes all major systems, interesting anomalies, currents, etc. and
fill in the holes as we go.  The reason I bring this up is society size
(part of the reason I made the Seven Dynasties so large).  Humanity,
especially when clustered into multi-planet systems is TINY.  Keep this in
mind with some of the comment I give below.  Now, does anyone know how to
make ChiView do a bloody print screen or (even better) export the screen
into a graphics program to make top down maps?  It would also be helpful to
know which societies did not require specific sun classes (living in domes
instead, etc.).
M. Keaton

> First, players
> Tribes, welcome aboard.  I need to do another going over, but I think
> your ready.  You need to think about how spread out your people are, how
> well they maintain their communications, and what they'll accept as a
> habitable planet -- but I expect your already doing that.
>
> Remanant, wonderful funny story.  How does a secret system work?  What
> do they do with univited visitors (cometters, pirates, ships passing
> through)?  Is it long established or did they put it here because of all
> the local action?

Does this mean I get to play them?  I designed them with narrative focus in
mind and it does all seem to fit.  The mechanics are going to be colorful to
work out but we'll make do.  The secret system part is easy (It's actually
going to be on the map but, with a little "help", it's not quite recorded
properly).  Uninvited visitors either fall for the illusion, get 're-wired',
or just disappear.  The system was founded HE 11413 according to Remnant
archives (that is not a typo) and has been maintained since.

Does anyone else want advisors or is anyone opposed to Remanent presence in
their systems?


> I've got a few comments on the NPS
> Nooians and Parith are in.  The Parith need names for their two other
> systems.  Jason?
> The Mechlaus and Seven Dynasties are in, but I'm torn about their size
> and might wind up kneecaping them.

Keeping in mind my previous concerns over the size of human space and adding
that all holdings of a society do not have to occupy livable planets (large
mining colonies, etc.), I actually lobby in favor of keeping the size of the
7D and increasing the Mechlaus (esp. if they can occupy non-key stellar
worlds).  Also, in order for the 7D to function as a society, they need to
have broad holdings and a firm agrarian base (China vs. Japan--land gives
stability, crowd them and war is inevitable).

> The Regressionists, likewise.  Keaton, you brought this to my attention
> originally, but you need to consider how few habitable planets there
> are.  Low technology, while intresting, tends not to survive in an
> environment where you don't if you don't take proper care of your
> equipment.  Alternately, there could be marginally related Regressionist
> movements on several habitable planets.

I like reducing the size of the Regressionists, change the history to say
that they found strong sympathizers after the Century of Fire, and place
them in the middle of some "democratic" type of larger culture who lets them
live within and protects their rights (aka. the Amish in N. America, USA).

> T-14 I'm very torn about.  Great Mambo is a wonderful book even if the
> chicken only gets half a page and I love idea of nanotechnology.  But
> the potential power is immense though you limited it nicely.  I've got
> to think.

T-14 is dangerous but also very limited in their cultural set-up.  The
biggest selling point for T-14 is that they can occupy ANY kind of system
and will not make a concerted effort to grow beyond it.  They also provide a
nice hub for black market information intrigue.  I was also trying to push
the limits of 'human' with this one and get a little creative for an NPS.

>

(Work on the map for a while and your entire view of things changes.  Who
cares if it's a good race; can they live in a system without a red or yellow
sun?  Just me, going crazy over here.  How do I put Edmund's nebula in this
mess (psiduck, sigh)

Hey, do we need more NPS?  I can do more.

> Game start,
> I've been considering how to manage this.  I'd like to hold active play
> until we have a crude map and I've a refrence card with peoples
> determinants.

Oh yeah, map is crude.  Do you want us to post determinants in any specific
template? (I'll also do the NPS if you like.)  Please, revisit human
geography and let me know where to add the various NPS.

>And we haven't even set the starting year.

Human Timeline, Revision 2.1 > Current date: 14875 HE.

>However I did promise and we have plenty of information built up already.
What I
> propose I'm sure no-one will like:  TURN 0.  This idea serves two
> purposes; it stalls while we finish wiring the game up and it shows how
> your societies aren't starting from nothing on HE ???.  Essentially, I'd
> like everyone who wishes to write up two internal actions and make up a
> resolution.  These represent things your society has been working on the
> last few years:  projects underway, reforms debated, changes rejected,
> crises starting.  You can choose any degree of sucess, though I recomend
> you limit it to something framing future action, not a real
> accomplishment, say at Good (+1).  Failure on the other hand knows no
> bounds and a serious failure sets up all sorts of intresting story
> ideas.  External actions are allowed as long you negotiate effects with
> the other player or have already mentioned the event; GTC taking over
> Lanothar or the Tribes entering Mar'san space would be examples.  Again
> this is an optional activity to do short term what the time line did
> long term, establish who is doing what.  Anyone really object to this?
>

I'm fine with it.  Do you wish me to do the same for NPS?

> Keaton, I'm one of those overly familiar Americans and feel a little
> uncomfortable always calling you by your last name.  May I use your
> first name?  If so, what is it?
>

RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

About the author:  M. Keaton can neither confirm nor deny his own existence.
It is believed that he is currently held hostage by a crazy woman and her
cats.

Ah, the name thing (BTW, for those of you with lives, this message is done.
The rest is all insane (inane) ramblings).  Well, the story goes something
like this:

Around the turn of the century (we don't ask for specifics), a simple farmer
was born to an Irishman (relocated to the US due to a famine) with a vicious
sense of humor and no patience.  When said farmer was born, the Irishman
(who, himself, at Elis island had refused to give a first name and was,
therefore assigned one he never used) was given the duty of naming his son.
Now, this Irishman chose to name this poor child JB.  That's right 'JB', two
letters, without periods, short for nothing, just JB.

Historical note:  The US government refused to issue a Social Security
number to a pair of initials and the farmer, who was my grandfather, lost
his temper with a government beuracrat and became legally known in the eyes
of the Establishment as "Jay Bird Noname" (the old man always was
sarcastic).

Now, time passed and spring came and nature took its course.  In the
fullness of time (well actually at the age of 16), JB had a son.  He named
this son "J.L."  It seems the family had learned to put periods after the
letters but we were still having some problems with actually naming.  When
his second son, R.G. was born, legend has it that JB was confronted with a
familiar but daunting sight--an angry wife.  It seems that, not coming from
insane Irish breeding (actually, she was Irish and insane.  It was just a
different kind of crazy), my grandmother demanded that her spawn be given
proper names.  (Oh, and don't be too offended at the word 'spawn'; it took
us years to convince her to say "give birth" instead of "whelp".)  Anyway,
the two children were renamed (Joyce Lee and Ray Glenn) and it seemed that
all would be normal in the quiet of the Ozark Mountians.

But, like a Lovecraftian tale, in the forested farmlands of the Mountians
where strange lights float at night and legend tells of a man-beast who
stalks the night and where the locals fear the mountian lion more than even
indoor plumbing, our tale continued to twist.  For, on a night of storms and
sorrow, a child was born and, as is the fashionable thing, named--one
Matthew Ray Reuel Keaton.  The second middle name, a tribute to a father's
favorite author, was dropped because (truely) the hospital could not fit the
entire name on the birth certificate.  Now, despite this small mix-up, all
might have been well in the naming of this Matthew Ray Keaton save that the
crazed Irshman who started this whole mess was still alive (my
great-grandfather actually lived until I was 13).

When confronted with his great-grandchild and told the name assigned, family
lore has it that he immediately said words to the effect of "Well, M.R.
Keaton.  Mr. Keaton, I guess at least somebody around here will get treated
with respect," and proceeded to laugh until his teeth fell out (just the
upper plate).  Unfortunately, it became the joke which would not die and
finally reached the critical point when, after several years of 'formal
education', the string of letters before and after the name began to get
rediculous.

Two others occurances have further confused the issue.  I spent several
years at a job which required that, as part of quality control, I had to
sign several hundred documents per day.  The other occurances was more
dramatic:  A young freelance author named Matthew Keaton recieved a royalty
check made out to Micheal Keaton.  The transition to simply MKeaton suddenly
made a lot of sense both in light of family history and because I have a bad
habit of eating at least once per day and the bank will not cash a check
made out to someone else.

So, what do I like to be called?  Well, Matthew is too long for most folks
and now I'm not used to hearing it.  Matt is an insult (it's the whole "door
mat" thing from childhood).  Matty is the little girl playing in my back
yard (my neighbors daughter by strange coincidence).  The best answer is:  I
don't know.  I'm not even comfortable using other peoples given names in
conversation.

Keaton works.  MK is what I use for signing most things.  The WotC people
call me Wolf but it doesn't seem to fit.  My students like to call me Doc
but, as a writer, I'm not worthy (I'm still old enough to remember
E.E.Smith).  (My wife calls me Puddin' or Oberon, depending on my mood, but
don't you dare go there)  Most folks around here call me Keaton or Doc (or
Ahhhhhhh! but that might be considered a sound effect).

Call me what you want (a rose is a rose and I ain't no rose, to paraphrase
Shakes.)  Names seem to be like shirts that I wear out and throw away when
they no longer fit.  Now, my dear overly familiar american, aren't you sorry
you asked.  Just don't worry about any of it--you won't offend me and I hope
I haven't offended you (I don't see how I could have but on the 'net, who
knows--Pickman's Modem by L. Watt-Evans is a case study in my use of
technology). To steal another line from my great-grandfather "Call me
anythin' ya want; just don't call me late to dinner."

> Anyone know about or have good sources on terraforming?

I'll see what I can find.

g'night all

M.Keaton (who fears he may now have given WAY too much personal information)

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KennyCrowe
Kenny Crowe

Thu

Dec 2
1999

08:07Z

[Main] Various Admin (mk: more admin., map stuff, and nomenclature)

> Mapping:  over 1100 stellar objects are within 50ly plus even more
	
	Wow... thats a lot!

> Now, does anyone know how to make ChiView do a bloody print 
> screen or (even better) export the screen into a graphics program 
> to make top down maps?  

	Yeah... I just do a "print screen" as part of my OS, and
paste the bitmap that results into Photoshop. Very easy...

> It would also be helpful to know which societies did not require 
> specific sun classes (living in domes instead, etc.).

	OK. The Nexites do not require earth-specific planets. The
vast majority (99%) of Nexites live in Bitek-Habitats. These 
are alive and sentient and require food/energy. They need a source
of material (asteroids etc) as well as a high energy region, like
the ionoshpere of a gas-giant or a small star. If this is present
then there is likely to be a Habitat. As long as those requiements
are met, they are self sufficient.


//Remnants//
> The system was founded HE 11413 according to Remnant archives 
> (that is not a typo) and has been maintained since.

	Umm.. that makes it about 1400 AD!!! Thats before Humans
even had flight! Let along space technology...

	This will be interesting!

> Does anyone else want advisors or is anyone opposed to Remanent 
> presence in their systems?

	Please!!! 

Hmmm...
Regressionists...

Since they seem to be a strong "pastoral" type people. And since 
the Nexites don't really live on Planets, it may possible be that
the Nexites were more tahn willing to keep the Regressionsists in
"their" systems. Due to the reluctance the Nexites have to "hard"
technology, they would be quite at home in a Regressionist system,
and the fact that much of their Bitek could be hidden from those
not used to it (not the big things obviously)
Also, the Nexites could be responsible for a little "minor 
enhancements" in the Regressionists - like a strengthened immune 
system, and perhaps a slight modification to increase psi. 
Perhaps even a modification of hormone control to induce a more
pacafistic attitude (non-violent/aggressive). 

The Nexites would want to buy a great deal of food stuffs /art etc
from the Regressionsists. Methods of payment could be difficult,
but things like foodstuffs, art from other planets etc would
probably go well...
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LouisPasztor
Louis Pasztor

Thu

Dec 2
1999

13:28Z

[Main] Various Admin (mk: more admin., map stuff, and nomenclature)

>
>Does this mean I get to play them?  I designed them with narrative focus in
>mind and it does all seem to fit.  The mechanics are going to be colorful 
>to
>work out but we'll make do.  The secret system part is easy (It's actually
>going to be on the map but, with a little "help", it's not quite recorded
>properly).  Uninvited visitors either fall for the illusion, get 
>'re-wired',
>or just disappear.  The system was founded HE 11413 according to Remnant
>archives (that is not a typo) and has been maintained since.
>
>Does anyone else want advisors or is anyone opposed to Remanent presence in
>their systems?
>

No, Mar'Sara doesn't need any advisors right now since they do not trust 
"insiders" of human space, actually, they don't trust anyone. The only other 
society they are real friends with is the Heathrans.

And for the Mechalus Collective, since they are keeping a low profile and 
other reasons, i wouldn't think they need any advisors or any of you guys 
spying on them.


>Keeping in mind my previous concerns over the size of human space and 
>adding
>that all holdings of a society do not have to occupy livable planets (large
>mining colonies, etc.), I actually lobby in favor of keeping the size of 
>the
>7D and increasing the Mechlaus (esp. if they can occupy non-key stellar
>worlds).  Also, in order for the 7D to function as a society, they need to
>have broad holdings and a firm agrarian base (China vs. Japan--land gives
>stability, crowd them and war is inevitable).


Its Mechalus. Damn you typos  :)
>
.
>
-LordLMP

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RylenDreskin
Rylen Dreskin

Thu

Dec 2
1999

14:09Z

[Main] Various Admin (mk: more admin., map stuff, and nomenclature)

Kenny Crowe wrote:

> > Mapping:  over 1100 stellar objects are within 50ly plus even more
>
>         Wow... thats a lot!

It is.

> > It would also be helpful to know which societies did not require
> > specific sun classes (living in domes instead, etc.).
>
>         OK. The Nexites do not require earth-specific planets. The
> vast majority (99%) of Nexites live in Bitek-Habitats. These
> are alive and sentient and require food/energy. They need a source
> of material (asteroids etc) as well as a high energy region, like
> the ionoshpere of a gas-giant or a small star. If this is present
> then there is likely to be a Habitat. As long as those requiements
> are met, they are self sufficient.
>

Sentient?  Do you mean full human level awareness or merely as much as a
dog or cat?

>
> //Remnants//
> > The system was founded HE 11413 according to Remnant archives
> > (that is not a typo) and has been maintained since.
>
>         Umm.. that makes it about 1400 AD!!! Thats before Humans
> even had flight! Let along space technology...
>

Hey, if that Irish saint could visit America in a cockle ...

> Regressionists...
>
> Since they seem to be a strong "pastoral" type people. And since
> the Nexites don't really live on Planets, it may possible be that
> the Nexites were more tahn willing to keep the Regressionsists in
> "their" systems. Due to the reluctance the Nexites have to "hard"
> technology, they would be quite at home in a Regressionist system,
> and the fact that much of their Bitek could be hidden from those
> not used to it (not the big things obviously)
>

If you like.

It's much harder for the original Nexite system to be secret.  If they
were part of the conversations in the late Silence, people know exactly
where they are.  And unless the home was largely cut out of running the
empire, there was a huge amount of through traffic during the Hegemony.
But they could have established some secret bases, some large, during
their dominance.

Rylen


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JtSl
jtsl

Fri

Dec 3
1999

06:24Z

[Main] Various Admin (mk: more admin., map stuff, and nomenclature)

> Does anyone else want advisors or is anyone opposed to Remanent presence in
> their systems?

Yes the Kings of the Heathrans would like an advisors.

> Oh yeah, map is crude.  Do you want us to post determinants in any specific
> template? (I'll also do the NPS if you like.)  Please, revisit human
> geography and let me know where to add the various NPS.

Rylen do you have those Determinent that I sent you or do i have to do them all
over agian?

King of the Heathrans
Jason Todd Heaps

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KennyCrowe
Kenny Crowe

Fri

Dec 3
1999

10:38Z

[Main] Various Admin (mk: more admin., map stuff, and nomenclature)

> >         OK. The Nexites do not require earth-specific planets.
> > The vast majority (99%) of Nexites live in Bitek-Habitats. 
> > These are alive and sentient and require food/energy. They need 
> > a source of material (asteroids etc) as well as a high energy 
> > region, like the ionoshpere of a gas-giant or a small star. If 
> > this is present then there is likely to be a Habitat. As long 
> > as those requiements are met, they are self sufficient.
>
> Sentient?  Do you mean full human level awareness or merely as 
> much as a dog or cat?

	Nope.. Fully Sentient. The Habitats have their own 
intelligence, and are responsible for the running of the facilities
inside. With the Bitek psi-links, the habitat would control many
"bio-robots" (brainless clones of heavily modified creatures) to
use as cleaners, construction etc etc. 

> > Regressionists...
//snip// 
> If you like.

	I like.
> 
> It's much harder for the original Nexite system to be secret.  If 
> they were part of the conversations in the late Silence, people 
> know exactly where they are.  And unless the home was largely cut 
> out of running the empire, there was a huge amount of through 
> traffic during the Hegemony. But they could have established some 
> secret bases, some large, during their dominance.

	OK. Sounds more reasonable.
-- 
Kenneth Crowe, ICL Data Oy, Finland
Ph +358 9 567 5116  GSM +358 50 364 4507
kenneth.crowe@icl.fi
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