Hi again,
I have received one or two responses to me directly, one for and one
against the time delay of year for actions. Since they did not publish
to the list or other players I will not reproduce the messages, but I
will respond.
I realize a year is a long time, but I did want to simulate the
debate that might take place among the factions. Normally, you can do
what you want w/in a country you conquer. You can use any of your
normal actions to take actions for the conquered society. Of course,
your actions should still be consistent w/ the history of the society.
If you actions goes against your own or the country's culture or
interests there could be minuses immediately or down the road.
Normally, if a country has a Parliament or Council, you might
choose to write about the long and difficult debate and publish whatever
actions you choose, but this seems different, here there are 7
independent player societies or non-player societies in this council
(Fae, Aloria, Taseleth, Kragan's Horde, Manund, Asentinir & the other
Eleven Cities. The Eleven Cities themselves are known for not being
able to agree on much. While potentially, the Fae have a majority (Fae,
Aloria, Taseleth, Kragan's Horde, Manund, plus the 3 other members of
the former anti-Asentir alliance), all those voices coming together is
not guaranteed. How to reflect the cacophony of all the voices present?
It is logical that most debates would not last a year and many
resolutions could pass quickly. In the interest of going faster, what
do
people think of 2 rolls for each action, both rolls occurring w/in the
same year. The first roll would be for the success of the passage of
the proposal and the second roll could be the result of the action.
Remember there still is the possibility of players writing actions that
the government could take on its own, bypassing the Regency Council. A
related question are any of the Regency Council who are players (or
become players) able to write actions or proposals for the Council?
The Regency sets policy for many things but it is not built to
micro-manage Asentinir itself. Also, how does one decide what are
actions the government could take on its own, and what are actions that
must be approved by the Council?
More thoughts, anyone?
Joel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
I ran into an interesting question (at least to me :-), and thought
I might acquire some opinions. In the Eleven Cities with all the
fighting & actions in Asentinir, it seems appropriate to make Asentinir
a Non-Player Society and separate from the rest of Eleven Cities. This
has already been done once for Manund, one of the other Eleven.
As of 2841, the Fae have taken over Asentinir. Normally, the
territory comes under control of the conquering player and they can
write actions for it. The Fae have created a Regency Council which sit
15 people. The Dukes of the other Eleven Cities, Kragan's Horde (the
small northern barbarian army settled in the Eleven Cities and 2
players, Aloria & Taseleth. And the Regency Council is to set policy
for Asentinir, so how does the Fae or the other occupiers write actions
for Asentinir?
My thoughts are twofold, that anyone wanting an action must but a
proposal before the Regency Council. & if other parties want they can
also write an action to support adding a +1 (so Aloria or Taseleth
could write actions to support adding +1 each, or vice versa among any
of them. In theory I guess another NPS could also write support if it
was something vital to them, but for the most part the dice & other
pluses/minuses would dictate the results.(which will reflect the votes
of the others). This means at least a year delay in actions occurring
since first the proposal must pass, but does reflect the difficulty in
getting 15 voices to agree on anything and the Dukes of the Eleven
Cities are notorious for their lack of agreement.
As occupying forces, the Fae/Aloria/Taseleth also have the
opportunity to write actions for their units inside Asentinir. In
addition I imagine they could make requests outside of the Regency
Council to the Asentinir government. This could be subject to other
pluses/minuses for going outside channels or could result in
pluses/minuses in dealing w/ others from the Council as they actions are
found out. Also, the government itself could prove to be happy or
unhappy about performing actions outside the established channels.
The Council creates an interesting layer of complexity to plotlines
and performing actions and I thought I would solicit opinions, on how to
perform actions while trying to cover all the potential ramifications.
Anyone having other ideas, please feel free to contribute.
Joel
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On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > I ran into an interesting question (at least to me :-), and thought > I might acquire some opinions. In the Eleven Cities with all the > fighting & actions in Asentinir, it seems appropriate to make Asentinir > a Non-Player Society and separate from the rest of Eleven Cities. This > has already been done once for Manund, one of the other Eleven. As the person running Eleven cities, I seem to have a vested interest in this manner. So here are my thoughts: - up until now (ie. for during the game break) I made the actions for Asentinir like I did for all others Eleven cities (although that might be wrong way to say it: I didn't make 44 actions per year - in a manner I still made 4 actions per year, but I distributed those actions or made them so widespread that they covered the whole society) - now that Fae effectively hold Asentinir (through the council and their spell-bound hold on the current Duke), I will no longer make actions from Asentinir point of view - all my actions will be on behalf of the rest of the Eleven cities I'm wondering whether I should make actions on behalf of the elements of Asentinir society which rebelled / will rebel against the Fae? Jason, I would like to hear a full account of the roles of the Dukes or Duchesses of Eleven cities (e.g. Manund, Emberath and Helemur) in the attack: did they know/support/participate in it or its planning. > As of 2841, the Fae have taken over Asentinir. Normally, the > territory comes under control of the conquering player and they can > write actions for it. Do you mean that if a player conquers a NPS, the player gets two sets of actions: his own 4 and the 4 of the conquered society? (In the "old" days this did not happen: when Aloria conquered Ardrian, the player didn't get 4 extra actions.) Of course, it's your choice. But if were the GM, at least I would require that part of the conquered society actions would be submitted on behalf of the rebelling part. At least at first. > The Fae have created a Regency Council which sit > 15 people. The Dukes of the other Eleven Cities, Kragan's Horde (the > small northern barbarian army settled in the Eleven Cities and 2 > players, Aloria & Taseleth. And the Regency Council is to set policy > for Asentinir, so how does the Fae or the other occupiers write actions > for Asentinir? Hmmm... assuming you give the extra actions (rather than making Jason spend some of his own to make Asentinir do what the Fae want), how about dividing the actions between the Council members - and decreasing the scope of those actions in order to reflect the fact that there's no singleminded effort there. > of the others). This means at least a year delay in actions occurring > since first the proposal must pass, but does reflect the difficulty in I don't really like this idea. It's ok for big decisions where you need to get the full force of the Society behind the action, but one can do also smaller actions within the society which do not need such concentration. > resolutions could pass quickly. In the interest of going faster, what > do people think of 2 rolls for each action, both rolls occurring w/in > the same year. The first roll would be for the success of the passage > of the proposal and the second roll could be the result of the action. This would work much better, I think. > The Regency sets policy for many things but it is not built to > micro-manage Asentinir itself. Also, how does one decide what are > actions the government could take on its own, and what are actions that > must be approved by the Council? The GM does it, and decides on possible penalties (either on the action or its scope) based on the ineffectiveness and/or dispersion of loyalties and resources in the society. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Juuso,
My impression (& you & Jason can correct me) was that the conquering
society could use one or all of their 4 actions (or more if they wanted
to take the minuses) to write for the society. And that those actions
should be consistent w/ the history of the society (whichever parts they
wanted to write for). Certainly, in the beginning and very likely
beyond the rebel portions will effect the pluses/minuses to any actions
taken.
So no the conqueror does not get 4 extra actions, they just must use
their normal actions for the conquered society if they wish.
When I started this question, I guess I forgot you were
originally writing for Asentinir. Is there any policy on what happens
when someone loses part of their country to another player? Who writes,
the conquered or the conquering? It would be interesting if you still
wrote for them, but would that be a good rule for the future.
I am sorry I kind of left you out in the cold in this discussion,
considering you control the remaining Eleven Cities. You input as their
controller and your experience in the game is invaluable.
If there are no objections we will try the double rolls for the
Regency Council. One roll for a proposal by any of the members of the
Council and one roll for the action itself. A failed proposal will then
reflect the difficulty of the Council coming to a decision. And there
are actions that can still be taken outside the Regency Council.
Joel
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Joel Elfman wrote: > Juuso, > > My impression (& you & Jason can correct me) was that the conquering > society could use one or all of their 4 actions (or more if they wanted > to take the minuses) to write for the society. And that those actions > should be consistent w/ the history of the society (whichever parts they > wanted to write for). Certainly, in the beginning and very likely > beyond the rebel portions will effect the pluses/minuses to any actions > taken. > So no the conqueror does not get 4 extra actions, they just must use > their normal actions for the conquered society if they wish. Yes that is write. > When I started this question, I guess I forgot you were > originally writing for Asentinir. Is there any policy on what happens > when someone loses part of their country to another player? Who writes, > the conquered or the conquering? It would be interesting if you still > wrote for them, but would that be a good rule for the future. The person who is playing the conquered Society does his own actions, but his determents get affected and he does not have the free reign on what he does that he did before hand. > I am sorry I kind of left you out in the cold in this discussion, > considering you control the remaining Eleven Cities. You input as their > controller and your experience in the game is invaluable. > If there are no objections we will try the double rolls for the > Regency Council. One roll for a proposal by any of the members of the > Council and one roll for the action itself. A failed proposal will then > reflect the difficulty of the Council coming to a decision. And there > are actions that can still be taken outside the Regency Council. Sounds fine to me. Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Juuso,
Since Asentinir was originally one of the Eleven Cities do you still
want to write actions for it or shall we make it an independent NPS? It
seems it has made enough of a name for itself to become one, but I will
leave the choice up to you.
If it is independent we shall use the double roll for actions
submitted to the Regency Council. If you continue to write for
Asentinir, then I am not sure if we need to do this. Let me know what
you want to do.
Joel
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On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > Since Asentinir was originally one of the Eleven Cities do you still > want to write actions for it or shall we make it an independent NPS? It > seems it has made enough of a name for itself to become one, but I will > leave the choice up to you. I think I would like to keep some ties with Asentinir for a while. Same as I'm doing with Manund. (I am submitting actions on behalf of Manund, too, am I?) Jason uses Asentinir resources as far as he can, and I will try to keep the side of those asentinirians who act out of the Fae/Council influence. I'm sure it will work out. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Juuso,
Okay, let try it out. I did not realize you were also still writing
for Manund since it is listed as an independent NPS. I would have
checked what we have been writing with you.
What do you think of making Asentinir its own NPS? or is that
splitting the Eleven Cities too much?
Remember the other members of the Council can also submit
proposals/actions for Asentinir or for their forces in Asentinir.
One thought for 2842 was to have the Duchess of Manund appeal to the
Regency Council and the first meeting of the Mythnir Council to appeal
for aid to retake her Duchy from Merelbar but that is now up to you :-)
If Manund is an independent NPS as listed is it part of your 4
actions for the Eleven Cities or are you taking more? And of course the
same question applies to Asentinir if it becomes an independent NPS?
The other alternative is since Manund no longer has a player it be
absorbed back into the Eleven Cities and removed from the independent
NPS list. Let me know your ideas.
Joel
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On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > Okay, let try it out. I did not realize you were also still writing > for Manund since it is listed as an independent NPS. I would have > checked what we have been writing with you. > What do you think of making Asentinir its own NPS? or is that > splitting the Eleven Cities too much? I just keep wondering that if Manund (& Asentinir) are NPSs, who *does* the actions for them? They are part of Eleven cities, so I thought that since there's none else to keep their side in the conflict, I might do it as part of the routine. > Remember the other members of the Council can also submit > proposals/actions for Asentinir or for their forces in Asentinir. Hmm... is that as in: Taseleth action 1/4: manipulate through the council Asentinir into granting exclusive trading rights to the Guild of... or as in: Asentinir action 1/4: a proposal is forth by Taseleth councillers to grant exclusive trading rights to the Guild of... Whichever the case, I'm sure it will work out. > One thought for 2842 was to have the Duchess of Manund appeal to the > Regency Council and the first meeting of the Mythnir Council to appeal > for aid to retake her Duchy from Merelbar but that is now up to you :-) Ok. > If Manund is an independent NPS as listed is it part of your 4 > actions for the Eleven Cities or are you taking more? And of course the > same question applies to Asentinir if it becomes an independent NPS? I'm taking only 4 actions, although some of them may be rather manysided. > The other alternative is since Manund no longer has a player it be > absorbed back into the Eleven Cities and removed from the independent > NPS list. Let me know your ideas. Maybe later. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
2 double actions. cataloguing books from fae, and researching a new weapon. Action I: Continue development of the Great Library in Nieh'Mel (ongoing) Analysing/Categorising the materials from Fae (8/10) "Brother Kirian, the boat is nearing the dock" "Thank you, please ensure that the Fae are looked after, and their materials taken with all care down to the Great Hall." "Very well" the acolyte said with a bow. Kirian flexed his fingers on the balcony, and looked out over the hall filled with books and scholars. The task of cataloguing and translating the Fae materials had been going on for many years. He was Missing end in uuencoded file: ning may be truncated. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
For Manund the GM can write actions or just event results as need be. If you want to write for both Manund & Asentinir, I would appreciate having you do it. You can use your 4 actions for all Eleven Cities (including Manund & Asentinir) To go through the Council one must make a proposal first which will be rolled for, and then the results of the action rolled for. This brings up another question of whether or not the other members of the council should have the opportunity in the same year to write an action in response to proposals? Anyone on the Council can 1) make a proposal to the Council 2) write an action involving the government. The council decides policy but the government carries it out. In theory, the occupying powers could make requests (or force) the government to do things they want. These actions would have repercussions on the Council when found out and future actions w/ the government, Asentinir, the Eleven Cities or their partners on the Council could be affected. Any other questions let me know. Joel "Juha Vesanto (Juuso)" wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > > Okay, let try it out. I did not realize you were also still writing > > for Manund since it is listed as an independent NPS. I would have > > checked what we have been writing with you. > > What do you think of making Asentinir its own NPS? or is that > > splitting the Eleven Cities too much? > > I just keep wondering that if Manund (& Asentinir) are NPSs, who *does* > the actions for them? They are part of Eleven cities, so I thought that > since there's none else to keep their side in the conflict, I might do > it as part of the routine. > > > Remember the other members of the Council can also submit > > proposals/actions for Asentinir or for their forces in Asentinir. > > Hmm... is that as in: > > Taseleth action 1/4: manipulate through the council Asentinir into > granting exclusive trading rights to the Guild of... > > or as in: > > Asentinir action 1/4: a proposal is forth by Taseleth councillers to > grant exclusive trading rights to the Guild of... > > Whichever the case, I'm sure it will work out. > > > One thought for 2842 was to have the Duchess of Manund appeal to the > > Regency Council and the first meeting of the Mythnir Council to appeal > > for aid to retake her Duchy from Merelbar but that is now up to you :-) > > Ok. > > > If Manund is an independent NPS as listed is it part of your 4 > > actions for the Eleven Cities or are you taking more? And of course the > > same question applies to Asentinir if it becomes an independent NPS? > > I'm taking only 4 actions, although some of them may be rather manysided. > > > The other alternative is since Manund no longer has a player it be > > absorbed back into the Eleven Cities and removed from the independent > > NPS list. Let me know your ideas. > > Maybe later. > > juuso > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
To Juuso/Other GMs,
A question has come up about who has the largest or most developed
sources of knowledge. I have heard claims of extensive libraries or
such from several sources. I was wondering how the following or any
others you might name rate. Please feel free to answer for Elyria,
Qaiyoure or both
Fae - Fortress of Knowledge in the Dreaming
Hur'Mel
Mir
Reyclean - the Vaults of the Wizards (almost all of these are sealed and
out of reach (per Walter) but I choose to include them anyway.)
Confederacy (if I remember we downgraded these a bit from the original
claims but I included them anyway for the potential future reference of
others)
Blackburg - what is left of their libraries
Helix - most of what they had was probably in Blackburg, I believe
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Re: Libraries: Is this including all documents and document-like objects (i.e. scrolls, cuneiform tablets, metallic cylinders inscribed with sounds)? What about the intrinsic knowledge of staff, up to and including long-lived creatures who inhabit these libraries? For Qai specifically, Mir has the most text (especially if the vaults of the under-city are included) although the exact contents of the Mountain of the Moon Warriors has never been determined. If the definition of library were extended to include oral traditions, shared knowledge, and the living repositories of knowledge which can outlive texts, then the discussion gets sticky in a hurry. On an unrelated issue, the next four chapter arch of the Eerith Cantos are awaiting only my editor's final approval before they are ready to post. The question is, given the fact that the plot for the Cantos began in Qai 1413 and we've turned over several players (and since the narratives don't go on the website), shall I post only the new stuff or repost starting from the Missing end in uuencoded file: ning may be truncated. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
My personal opinion is start from the beginning so everyone can be brought up to date as much as possible. Just warn everyone of the length of the documents. Joel ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
> To Juuso/Other GMs, > > A question has come up about who has the largest or most developed > sources of knowledge. I have heard claims of extensive libraries or > such from several sources. I was wondering how the following or any > others you might name rate. Please feel free to answer for Elyria, > Qaiyoure or both Just a comment from a player.... :) I have thought about this a little, and (as long as we are considering written resources) the order would probably go as follows: > Mir These guys have been around a long time, and have had access to an amazing amount of sources and also ways of getting to those sources. This information would be legendary when it comes to magical knowledge, and pretty impressive in other areas. But you have to think about focus here - why would they keep info on methods of farming, when they have info on how to "summon crops" or other such things. > Hur'Mel Catching up and possible soon to overtake the Fae. These guys have been around for a very long time as well, but have been limited to non magical means of getting information (until recently) What they lack in time they make up because their cause is to catalogue and record information. They are pretty much the mirror image of the Mir - mundane info is legendary, but magical is lacking... > Fae - Fortress of Knowledge in the Dreaming Similar to Mir - also probably have a lot of the same materials. Mundanities would be non-existent.. (come on! they live in the dreaming!) > Reyclean - the Vaults of the Wizards (almost all of these are > sealed and out of reach (per Walter) but I choose to include them anyway.) If they have been sealed, that means that a lot is out of date.. and also note the inherent magical focus > Blackburg - what is left of their libraries > Helix - most of what they had was probably in Blackburg, I believe These would have been comparable to the others, but would have been HUGELY damaged during the war. Now only scraps would remain - only the most important survived - what people thought worth risking their lives for... > Confederacy (if I remember we downgraded these a bit from the original > claims but I included them anyway for the potential future > reference of others) I have no idea about this.... Something to add would be the Imperial records of the Tyrean Empire. It would be pretty big, but also damaged due to many wars/civil wars over the years. Its major value would be it's difference from the western Elyria records... much of the older materials would exist in the Hur'Mel library. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Okay I am just pointing a few things out that I disagre on, not me favoring my societies. Crowe Kenneth wrote: > > To Juuso/Other GMs, > > > > A question has come up about who has the largest or most developed > > sources of knowledge. I have heard claims of extensive libraries or > > such from several sources. I was wondering how the following or any > > others you might name rate. Please feel free to answer for Elyria, > > Qaiyoure or both > > Just a comment from a player.... :) > > I have thought about this a little, and (as long as we are > considering > written resources) the order would probably go as follows: > > Mir > These guys have been around a long time, and have had access to > an amazing amount of sources and also ways of getting to those sources. > This information would be legendary when it comes to magical knowledge, > and pretty impressive in other areas. But you have to think about > focus here - why would they keep info on methods of farming, when they > have info on how to "summon crops" or other such things. I disagree. To cast a spell like "summon crops" you have to understand how crops, and plants grow. to heal somone you would have to now were the heart is, the lungs and that sort of thing. Spells are not just saying words and it happens. A lot of the spell requires that you understand a basic of what you are doing. So they would have books that hold info about plants, anatomy, weather, ect. Besides the mages are scholars as well and also it is much easer to just uses the best agriculter all meathods then haveing to raise all your plants with magic. :) > > > > Hur'Mel > Catching up and possible soon to overtake the Fae. The Order has been around for over 10 million years. Good Luck. > These guys have > been around for a very long time as well, but have been limited to non > magical means of getting information (until recently) What they lack in > time they make up because their cause is to catalogue and record > information. > They are pretty much the mirror image of the Mir - mundane info is > legendary, but magical is lacking... > > > Fae - Fortress of Knowledge in the Dreaming > Similar to Mir - also probably have a lot of the same materials. > Mundanities would be non-existent.. (come on! they live in the dreaming!) They would have somestuff dealing with the mudane world. Just a passing knowlegde tough. > > > Reyclean - the Vaults of the Wizards (almost all of these are > > sealed and out of reach (per Walter) but I choose to include them anyway.) > If they have been sealed, that means that a lot is out of date.. and > also note the inherent magical focus Possible. > > Blackburg - what is left of their libraries > > Helix - most of what they had was probably in Blackburg, I believe > These would have been comparable to the others, but would have > been HUGELY damaged during the war. Now only scraps would remain - only > the most important survived - what people thought worth risking their > lives for... > > > Confederacy (if I remember we downgraded these a bit from the original > > claims but I included them anyway for the potential future > > reference of others) > I beleave we did down grade it. Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
> The Order has been around for over 10 million years. Good Luck. I mean the Fae. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 jtsl@attglobal.net wrote: > > The Order has been around for over 10 million years. Good Luck. > > I mean the Fae. Hmm... 10 million years is not really an exact measure of time. It certainly has only passing relation to what passes for a year in Celandra. Let's just say that the Fae and the Fortress of Knowledge have been around since before people of Celandra had clubs as the state-of-the-art weapon. I'd be more inclined to say this equals more like 30000 years of Celandra time than 10 million, but this really is subjective. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
"Juha Vesanto (Juuso)" wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 jtsl@attglobal.net wrote: > > > The Order has been around for over 10 million years. Good Luck. > > > > I mean the Fae. > > Hmm... 10 million years is not really an exact measure of time. It > certainly has only passing relation to what passes for a year in Celandra. > Let's just say that the Fae and the Fortress of Knowledge have been around > since before people of Celandra had clubs as the state-of-the-art > weapon. I'd be more inclined to say this equals more like 30000 years > of Celandra time than 10 million, but this really is subjective. Yes I agree, but also remember that the Fae are MUCH longer lived then Humans so that makes their perseption of time diffrent. So they could have been around for 10 million years but to them it would have seemed only about 10 Thousand. Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Currently, I believe I only have 2 sets of moves for 2842, the Fae &
Hur'Mel. Everyone else please get your moves for the new year in.
Walter I still owe you Reyclean results on your revisions, since it is a
timeline moves, please assume everything is successful and prepare
2842. I have also been a little slow winding up the timeline actions
and the two sets of moves for 2842 that have been submitted and I
apologize but I would like to keep on schedule, so we may overlap the
years slightly to keep on schedule. If I owe anyone anything or anyone
needs an extension please let me know.
Now that we are starting back w/ single years, it should get easier
for everyone to send and for me to process moves. We will follow a
roughly 20 day cycle for moves. Moves will happen on 20th of the month,
then the 10th of the next month, then the 30th of the month after that
(28th if it happens to be Feb.), and then back to the 10th of the month
after that, and so on. My hope is to make this should make it easier to
remember when moves are due.
Since we are now back to single year actions, please remember all
your plusses and minuses count and actions can fail. Also remember the
GM has the right to pick and choose what he feels are representative
plusses and minuses. Usually, only a few of the best are chosen, if you
send me 7 different plusses most of them will be ignored, so choose your
best.
Also, please list your multiple year actions. And list what year
the action is in. (i.e. - Year 2 of 5). Each year of a multiple action
is rolled for separately, so you can have good years and bad years. A
(0000) result means nothing really happens, +1/-1 some good/bad results,
not much and so on. +3/-3 & +4/-4 are excellent/horrific results and
can carry over to subsequent years.
For those of you who want to get your potential bonus action, get
your moves in early next year and start earning those credits. And for
those of you who are late watch out. And me too, if I keep delivering
late I might have to start giving you all extra actions :-)
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Hi All,
I get the impression I should stick up for helix here... But, everything
that has been said so far I agree with. Blackburg Castle was underseige and
over run, so it will be very severely damaged. And most people left in a
hurry, so they couldn't take a lot with them.
I think we can assume that they would have taken the most valuable things
with them. If something was valuable and couldn't be carried, my guess is
that it would have been warded to prevent it's discovery, or to prevent it
from harm.
Since these items would be distributed amongst several different orders
within Blackburg... I think there would have been warding spells big &
small all over blackburg, just waiting for their owners to return and find
them.
However, after they did this the Sorcerer rolled in to town. He would have
been powerful enough to uncover most of the caches. And... Somethings
would have been caught in the crossfire.
So we need to resolve the following:
The invading army was controlled by the Sorcerer of the North...
He had a couple of options:
1) he was interested in the books himself and restrained his
army from destroying the knowledge repositories.
2) he was interested in the books himself but did not have
sufficient control over the army to prevent them from destroying
it.
(There are wards to consider as well.)
2) he purposefully had the books destroyed to prevent anyone
learning anything that could be used against him.
My guess is that since they were mostly barbarians in his army,
and he didn't think he was going to loose blackburg that suddenly.
he wouldn't have worried about option 3 too much... But he was
considered to be mad by many... so who knows.
My guess is that it would have been option 1.
When writing the actions for Helix I did take this into consideration. If
something was not done to correct it Helix's knowledge stats would take a
serious nose dive.
So... If you look at Helix's actions over gap, there is a 6 year action
going into Blackburg, in an attempt to retrieve any caches of
books/knowledge that still remain in the area.
If they had been lucky they might have found other peoples caches too, so
they could have ended up with more than they started with. (especially with
how many died and couldn't return for their caches.)
As it turned out Helix was only moderately successful.
Which depending upon the actions of the Sorcerer when he took Blackburg, can
mean either an insignificant loss(option 1), or a moderate (option 2) to
large loss(option 3).
can I get a ruling on what the sorcerers actions were when he took
blackburg?
thanks,
Matt
|> Blackburg - what is left of their libraries
|
|Very little in Blackburg itself. Most of the remaining items
|are either in care of the wizards-on-the-move (who remain reluctant
|to return them to the new library as they are themselves reluctant
|to return to Blackburg), or still in forgotten hiding places because
|the persons who hid them are dead.
|
|Still, Blackburg is the concentration of magical knowledge in Elyria,
|and the library contains all classical and relevant texts on magic
|that were part of the regular curriculum in Blackburg before the war.
|
| - "Welcome students to the 2307th lecture year on the practice
| of magic in the manipulation of small amounts of inertiativeness
| particles --- light, if wish to call it. We start with the
| classical textbook on..."
| - "We used to have it, but it was lost, you know. Try to ask
|around from
| the various Orders. Maybe they have it tucked in somewhere."
|
|> Helix - most of what they had was probably in Blackburg, I believe
|
|Yep, but they took all the precious stuff along when left for exile.
|(Just like all the others). Something was lost, but I think
|they managed
|to save most. Where it is now, I have no idea.
|
| - "Of course we have it. No, we're not going to tell you about it.
| Unless you help to save the world - say, by a small domination
| to the Order..."
|
|juuso
|----------------------------------------------------------------
|To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
|
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Matthew,
I left it to a die roll (00++) = +2 a moderate success.
So let us say that the Sorcerer of the North focused mostly on the fighting. He
was certain he would win, so while he took some items he came across and perhaps
had some people looking for a few things, his thought the rest he could come
back to. Some items were probably caught in the crossfire and destroyed. A few
items may have damaged seals w/ bad results for those opening them and for a few
the wards might be such that knowledge to open them was lost w/ the death of
some of the wizards. Some items might be lost in the remains of the darkness
around Blackburg.
The majority of items are recoverable but may be spread out w/ the diaspora
of the various wizards. You have already had some success recovering a bunch of
the knowledge, the rest of what is recoverable will probably just take more
time.
Joel
"Coote, Matthew" wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I get the impression I should stick up for helix here... But, everything
> that has been said so far I agree with. Blackburg Castle was underseige and
> over run, so it will be very severely damaged. And most people left in a
> hurry, so they couldn't take a lot with them.
>
> I think we can assume that they would have taken the most valuable things
> with them. If something was valuable and couldn't be carried, my guess is
> that it would have been warded to prevent it's discovery, or to prevent it
> from harm.
>
> Since these items would be distributed amongst several different orders
> within Blackburg... I think there would have been warding spells big &
> small all over blackburg, just waiting for their owners to return and find
> them.
>
> However, after they did this the Sorcerer rolled in to town. He would have
> been powerful enough to uncover most of the caches. And... Somethings
> would have been caught in the crossfire.
>
> So we need to resolve the following:
> The invading army was controlled by the Sorcerer of the North...
> He had a couple of options:
> 1) he was interested in the books himself and restrained his
> army from destroying the knowledge repositories.
> 2) he was interested in the books himself but did not have
> sufficient control over the army to prevent them from destroying
> it.
> (There are wards to consider as well.)
> 2) he purposefully had the books destroyed to prevent anyone
> learning anything that could be used against him.
> My guess is that since they were mostly barbarians in his army,
> and he didn't think he was going to loose blackburg that suddenly.
> he wouldn't have worried about option 3 too much... But he was
> considered to be mad by many... so who knows.
>
> My guess is that it would have been option 1.
>
> When writing the actions for Helix I did take this into consideration. If
> something was not done to correct it Helix's knowledge stats would take a
> serious nose dive.
> So... If you look at Helix's actions over gap, there is a 6 year action
> going into Blackburg, in an attempt to retrieve any caches of
> books/knowledge that still remain in the area.
> If they had been lucky they might have found other peoples caches too, so
> they could have ended up with more than they started with. (especially with
> how many died and couldn't return for their caches.)
> As it turned out Helix was only moderately successful.
>
> Which depending upon the actions of the Sorcerer when he took Blackburg, can
> mean either an insignificant loss(option 1), or a moderate (option 2) to
> large loss(option 3).
>
> can I get a ruling on what the sorcerers actions were when he took
> blackburg?
>
> thanks,
> Matt
>
> |> Blackburg - what is left of their libraries
> |
> |Very little in Blackburg itself. Most of the remaining items
> |are either in care of the wizards-on-the-move (who remain reluctant
> |to return them to the new library as they are themselves reluctant
> |to return to Blackburg), or still in forgotten hiding places because
> |the persons who hid them are dead.
> |
> |Still, Blackburg is the concentration of magical knowledge in Elyria,
> |and the library contains all classical and relevant texts on magic
> |that were part of the regular curriculum in Blackburg before the war.
> |
> | - "Welcome students to the 2307th lecture year on the practice
> | of magic in the manipulation of small amounts of inertiativeness
> | particles --- light, if wish to call it. We start with the
> | classical textbook on..."
> | - "We used to have it, but it was lost, you know. Try to ask
> |around from
> | the various Orders. Maybe they have it tucked in somewhere."
> |
> |> Helix - most of what they had was probably in Blackburg, I believe
> |
> |Yep, but they took all the precious stuff along when left for exile.
> |(Just like all the others). Something was lost, but I think
> |they managed
> |to save most. Where it is now, I have no idea.
> |
> | - "Of course we have it. No, we're not going to tell you about it.
> | Unless you help to save the world - say, by a small domination
> | to the Order..."
> |
> |juuso
> |----------------------------------------------------------------
> |To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
> |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
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On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote:
> A question has come up about who has the largest or most developed
> sources of knowledge. I have heard claims of extensive libraries or
> such from several sources. I was wondering how the following or any
> others you might name rate. Please feel free to answer for Elyria,
> Qaiyoure or both
>
> Fae - Fortress of Knowledge in the Dreaming
This was somewhat damaged during the recent war, but still contains
vast amounts of information. However, I suppose much of it is of arcane
nature. The Mythnir Fae have been transferring (copying) parts of the
knowledge to Hur'Mel, but I'd like to emphasize that a big part of the
information is simply untransfellable because the recording media
depends on the laws of Dreaming (or rather the lack of them) to work.
- if you want to know something about Dreaming, this is the place to look
for
- but you need permission from the Keepers of Knowledge to get it
- and you need to get into Dreaming
- "Who are thou who seeketh entrance to the Fortress! Beware, for
we are bloody mighty and easily irritated!"
> Hur'Mel
Biggest library complex in Elyria. Contains mundane knowledge, histories,
reports, journals from travelling knights, trivia. I would suppose that a
big part of the knowledge is uncatalogued and thus real *digging* is
needed to actually find anything. But let's hear Kenny's comments on this.
How easy it would be to find an account of the weather in Eleven cities
during summer 2433?
- mundane knowledge --- we got it
- dig there long enough, and you know what Duke of Asentinir had for
breakfast in midsummer 1099 (be prepared to long though...)
> Mir
no comments on my part
> Reyclean - the Vaults of the Wizards (almost all of these are sealed and
> out of reach (per Walter) but I choose to include them anyway.)
IIRC those were part of the archieves of the Avarean kingdom (a small
part, but nevertheless). It's a secret repository, though, and even
the Reycelan wizards don't visit it more than twice a year - mainly just
to see everything is ok. All obviously useful items (grimoires, magical
practice and some classical theory) have long been in distributed
among the wizards.
- Avarean council records between 514 - 680
- "Some Interesting Experiments on Dominion of Reality", by professor
Allur
- you need to be High Wizard of Reycelan to get permission to enter here
> Confederacy (if I remember we downgraded these a bit from the original
> claims but I included them anyway for the potential future reference of
> others)
Ahh... I suppose there could be something, but I'd still firmly of the
opinion that the Confederacy archieves concern mostly of *either*
Gezor law, magic, etc. *or* Avarean law, magic, etc.
And that they are both badly damaged and written in a language / cipher
almost nobody understands any more.
- what? some obscure manuscripts hidden on those blasted islands?
yeah, sure... pull the other one, it's got bells on
> Blackburg - what is left of their libraries
Very little in Blackburg itself. Most of the remaining items
are either in care of the wizards-on-the-move (who remain reluctant
to return them to the new library as they are themselves reluctant
to return to Blackburg), or still in forgotten hiding places because
the persons who hid them are dead.
Still, Blackburg is the concentration of magical knowledge in Elyria,
and the library contains all classical and relevant texts on magic
that were part of the regular curriculum in Blackburg before the war.
- "Welcome students to the 2307th lecture year on the practice
of magic in the manipulation of small amounts of inertiativeness
particles --- light, if wish to call it. We start with the
classical textbook on..."
- "We used to have it, but it was lost, you know. Try to ask around from
the various Orders. Maybe they have it tucked in somewhere."
> Helix - most of what they had was probably in Blackburg, I believe
Yep, but they took all the precious stuff along when left for exile.
(Just like all the others). Something was lost, but I think they managed
to save most. Where it is now, I have no idea.
- "Of course we have it. No, we're not going to tell you about it.
Unless you help to save the world - say, by a small domination
to the Order..."
juuso
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> > Hur'Mel > > Biggest library complex in Elyria. Contains mundane > knowledge, histories, > reports, journals from travelling knights, trivia. I would > suppose that a > big part of the knowledge is uncatalogued and thus real *digging* is > needed to actually find anything. But let's hear Kenny's > comments on this. > How easy it would be to find an account of the weather in > Eleven cities > during summer 2433? > > - mundane knowledge --- we got it > - dig there long enough, and you know what Duke of Asentinir had for > breakfast in midsummer 1099 (be prepared to long though...) Sounds about right! And the digging part is really true! That's why a big part of my activities (last many years) has been trying to organise the information. Maybe in a few game years I might say that some enterprising scholar invents a really cool method of organisation (Dewey decimal system anyone) and then spend the next 10 or so years making a vain attempt at cataloguing the library. But, The amount of information there is simply beyond help... the vast majority of "scholars" in hur'mel are involved in learning a area and collecting the references and locations of those books that are useful to that area. wrt the Fae knowledge... what is able to be translated is being handed across... this has been going on for about 10 years... This is the base of magical information that the Mel have... better than most societies would have, but still is comparable (but not anywhere as good) as the old blackburg repositories... Of course, none of the Mel really know how to USE the information, but it, like everything else, is stored just in case of a rainy day... ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Juuso,
Another question. Reyclean has a son who apparently is a potential
heir to the Barony of Kross by marriage (& by agreement between the
societies/players.) What are the game rules about taking over
societies? I assume it can not be quite that easy.
Joel
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On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > Another question. Reyclean has a son who apparently is a potential > heir to the Barony of Kross by marriage (& by agreement between the > societies/players.) What are the game rules about taking over > societies? I assume it can not be quite that easy. Not generally no, but in this case, it can. The reason being that it has been in preparation for a couple of decades at, the two societies are well linked and in friendly terms. Of course, something can go wrong, and I wouldn't be all that suprised if after a couple of decades the ways parted again either through political maneuvers or through civil war. A much bigger takeover - and one with many many more problems - is the combination of Northmarch and Keland. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
I thought to say something because some things discussed touch
also Reycelan. First about the knowledge in the Vaults of the Companion of
Wizards and then about the Kross & Reycelan agreement.
> Juuso wrote:
> IIRC those were part of the archieves of the Avarean kingdom (a small
> part, but nevertheless). It's a secret repository, though, and even
> the Reycelan wizards don't visit it more than twice a year - mainly just
> to see everything is ok. All obviously useful items (grimoires, magical
> practice and some classical theory) have long been in distributed
> among the wizards.
> - Avarean council records between 514 - 680
> - "Some Interesting Experiments on Dominion of Reality", by professor
> Allur
Excerpt from the Avaeran history:
"One thing is worth of notice though. Not all the wizards turned to
new ways. Some part of them fleed from Avaerand and sailed to Island
called now as Pyreth. There they build a mansion and great vaults
where they tried to store as much knowledge as they could. Nobody
noticed that books and magical items were disappearing from Avaerand
and other places. Their goal was simple: to preserve something from
the inevitable collapse. The collapse was of course little different
than they thought."
This hoarding lasted until the collapse of Avaerand. Interesting thing
which I have tried to point out lies in the layout of wizards mansion and
vaults underneath. Vaults are divided in two sections. First is a
vestibule where wizards stored all that knowledge Juuso stated above and
which is already in the use.
More precious artefacts etc. are stored in the main vaults. However the
doors leading to it are spelled so that they cannot be opened by modern
skills in magic. Secrets for those spells are lost for a long time ago.
Now this means that the contents are useless for now. I included this just
for storys sake.
Current Ren Harath (leader of the Companion of Wizards)
is trying to open them, but of course this task is impossible. It is just
fun to write stories about him trying to devise means to open the doors
and do the impossible :)
And of course almost nobody enters them nowadays, because almost
everything useful is already in the use. What is left in the vestibule
contains books and papers Juuso commented above. Of course these would be
interesting read for some historian.
> > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote:
> > Another question. Reyclean has a son who apparently is a potential
> > heir to the Barony of Kross by marriage (& by agreement between the
> > societies/players.) What are the game rules about taking over
> > societies? I assume it can not be quite that easy.
>
> Juuso wrote:
> Not generally no, but in this case, it can. The reason being that it has
> been in preparation for a couple of decades at, the two societies are well
> linked and in friendly terms. Of course, something can go wrong, and I
> wouldn't be all that suprised if after a couple of decades the ways parted
> again either through political maneuvers or through civil war.
Yes, all that is possible. Of course not even the unification has
happened yet. And besides if the Baron dies and Awenor's son becomes new
baron I wouldn't even want to make orders for Kross, not until Awenor
dies and unification is a "fact". If that happens, I would still have
four actions and maybe slightly larger scope. I even have some ideas how to
organise this double kingdom so that majority are happy. Some
reforms in political structure like big autonomy for both parts etc.
Of course maybe this unification maybe only as long as ruler is
alive after which two nations separate again. Let's see what future
brings, anyway I'm interested.
Walter
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I think that Juuso and Walter's note adequately wind-up this discussion on Resources. If anyone has any other comments please feel free to continue. Also as for the possible take over Kross, when & if it happens. As I mentioned it was my understanding that usually it is harder to takeover an NPS then this but as Juuso notes based on the long development time for this and the previous relations between the parties, it appears the groundwork has been well laid out for the takeover to occur here. As Walter notes, it would certainly work in the short time. whether it will last who knows. For those of you who want to takeover other societies, it just shows you that long-term planning and sticking around in the game for the long haul pays off. Joel Walter Rydman wrote: > I thought to say something because some things discussed touch > also Reycelan. First about the knowledge in the Vaults of the Companion of > Wizards and then about the Kross & Reycelan agreement. > > > Juuso wrote: > > IIRC those were part of the archieves of the Avarean kingdom (a small > > part, but nevertheless). It's a secret repository, though, and even > > the Reycelan wizards don't visit it more than twice a year - mainly just > > to see everything is ok. All obviously useful items (grimoires, magical > > practice and some classical theory) have long been in distributed > > among the wizards. > > - Avarean council records between 514 - 680 > > - "Some Interesting Experiments on Dominion of Reality", by professor > > Allur > > Excerpt from the Avaeran history: > "One thing is worth of notice though. Not all the wizards turned to > new ways. Some part of them fleed from Avaerand and sailed to Island > called now as Pyreth. There they build a mansion and great vaults > where they tried to store as much knowledge as they could. Nobody > noticed that books and magical items were disappearing from Avaerand > and other places. Their goal was simple: to preserve something from > the inevitable collapse. The collapse was of course little different > than they thought." > > This hoarding lasted until the collapse of Avaerand. Interesting thing > which I have tried to point out lies in the layout of wizards mansion and > vaults underneath. Vaults are divided in two sections. First is a > vestibule where wizards stored all that knowledge Juuso stated above and > which is already in the use. > More precious artefacts etc. are stored in the main vaults. However the > doors leading to it are spelled so that they cannot be opened by modern > skills in magic. Secrets for those spells are lost for a long time ago. > Now this means that the contents are useless for now. I included this just > for storys sake. > Current Ren Harath (leader of the Companion of Wizards) > is trying to open them, but of course this task is impossible. It is just > fun to write stories about him trying to devise means to open the doors > and do the impossible :) > And of course almost nobody enters them nowadays, because almost > everything useful is already in the use. What is left in the vestibule > contains books and papers Juuso commented above. Of course these would be > interesting read for some historian. > > > > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > > > Another question. Reyclean has a son who apparently is a potential > > > heir to the Barony of Kross by marriage (& by agreement between the > > > societies/players.) What are the game rules about taking over > > > societies? I assume it can not be quite that easy. > > > > Juuso wrote: > > Not generally no, but in this case, it can. The reason being that it has > > been in preparation for a couple of decades at, the two societies are well > > linked and in friendly terms. Of course, something can go wrong, and I > > wouldn't be all that suprised if after a couple of decades the ways parted > > again either through political maneuvers or through civil war. > > Yes, all that is possible. Of course not even the unification has > happened yet. And besides if the Baron dies and Awenor's son becomes new > baron I wouldn't even want to make orders for Kross, not until Awenor > dies and unification is a "fact". If that happens, I would still have > four actions and maybe slightly larger scope. I even have some ideas how to > organise this double kingdom so that majority are happy. Some > reforms in political structure like big autonomy for both parts etc. > Of course maybe this unification maybe only as long as ruler is > alive after which two nations separate again. Let's see what future > brings, anyway I'm interested. > > Walter > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
"Juha Vesanto (Juuso)" wrote: > On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Joel Elfman wrote: > > A question has come up about who has the largest or most developed > > sources of knowledge. I have heard claims of extensive libraries or > > such from several sources. I was wondering how the following or any > > others you might name rate. Please feel free to answer for Elyria, > > Qaiyoure or both > > > > Fae - Fortress of Knowledge in the Dreaming > > This was somewhat damaged during the recent war, but still contains > vast amounts of information. No actolly most of the library was deep in the fortrees. So while the Fortress got damaged the library did not suffer any damamge directly. > However, I suppose much of it is of arcane > nature. The Mythnir Fae have been transferring (copying) parts of the > knowledge to Hur'Mel, but I'd like to emphasize that a big part of the > information is simply untransfellable because the recording media > depends on the laws of Dreaming (or rather the lack of them) to work. > > - if you want to know something about Dreaming, this is the place to look > for Yea. > - but you need permission from the Keepers of Knowledge to get it Great Archmage Granth > - and you need to get into Dreaming > - "Who are thou who seeketh entrance to the Fortress! Beware, for > we are bloody mighty and easily irritated!" > > > Hur'Mel > > Biggest library complex in Elyria. Contains mundane knowledge, histories, > reports, journals from travelling knights, trivia. I would suppose that a > big part of the knowledge is uncatalogued and thus real *digging* is > needed to actually find anything. But let's hear Kenny's comments on this. > How easy it would be to find an account of the weather in Eleven cities > during summer 2433? > > - mundane knowledge --- we got it > - dig there long enough, and you know what Duke of Asentinir had for > breakfast in midsummer 1099 (be prepared to long though...) > > > Mir > > no comments on my part > > > Reyclean - the Vaults of the Wizards (almost all of these are sealed and > > out of reach (per Walter) but I choose to include them anyway.) > > IIRC those were part of the archieves of the Avarean kingdom (a small > part, but nevertheless). It's a secret repository, though, and even > the Reycelan wizards don't visit it more than twice a year - mainly just > to see everything is ok. All obviously useful items (grimoires, magical > practice and some classical theory) have long been in distributed > among the wizards. > > - Avarean council records between 514 - 680 > - "Some Interesting Experiments on Dominion of Reality", by professor > Allur > - you need to be High Wizard of Reycelan to get permission to enter here Mir mit be intrested in getting their hands on some of the books in that library. Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.