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Celandra is a game in which the players take the roles of societies, rather than playing individual characters. The players will invent a society with its culture and heritage, and will guide its development and interaction with the world. Emphasis will be be placed on developing a detailed history of Celandra, along with myths and legends.
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HurLan
Joel Elfman

Mon

Sep 15
2003

01:23Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

I have never received a reply to repeated questions about what constitutes the range of the Tal-Wyr basin and why assassins from there would have any reason to attack King Villard.

Joel
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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Mon

Sep 15
2003

19:14Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

Joel, the easiest way for me to answer (assuming no one has plans otherwise)
is to give you the out-of-game information of what occured.  The original
assassination attempt was the result of a random yearly event and could have
been chalked up to anything from a secret society to another nation to a
lone nutcase.  But you paid attention and expended considerable effort to
get to the bottom of it so I decided to reward that by allowing you to find
information that you weren't specifically looking for--specifically, that
several other nations had spy network operation in your country (including
the V'raal by the way).  From here (another example of good play that
deserved a reward) you turned the table on them and worked on your own spy
network backward through the same channels being used against you.  I've
left the exact range of the network deliberately vauge to give you the
maximum possible options for play.  In theory, any nation that borders the
Tal or Wyr rivers, within reason, you could consider to have some degree of
influence in.  The amount of influence depending on how close the society in
question was to your nation and its supportes (further is weaker, closer is
stronger, in your own borders strongest.)  That's why I haven't given a
simple answer to the range or the reason.  The range is subjective, working
to your advantage, and the reason is undefined.  You (or someone else) could
take it and expand on it or you can consider the matter effectively closed.
Either way, with your current network, Villard is significantly safer.  I
hope that's a clear answer that you can use.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Elfman" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions


> I have never received a reply to repeated questions about what constitutes
the range of the Tal-Wyr basin and why assassins from there would have any
reason to attack King Villard.
>
> Joel
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.

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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Mon

Sep 15
2003

19:15Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Joel Elfman wrote:
> I have never received a reply to repeated questions about what
> constitutes the range of the Tal-Wyr basin

That would be the land around rivers Tal and Wyr, basically
extending to norhtern Cedonia.

> and why assassins from there would have any reason to attack King
> Villard.

Well, assassin's typically do stuff because they are paid for it,
either in money or, as per the original stuff, in drugs. That said,
could you point me to the original event/action, so I can try
to figure out something?

juuso
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HurLan
Joel Elfman

Mon

Sep 15
2003

21:39Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

Michael,

     Thanks!!  Definitely a clearer answer.

This should be fun to play w/, unless Juuso would prefer to create something specific.  I knew that this was the result of a random event, the only problem was looking at the map & the description of the nearby societies I failed to understand what society might want to make the attempt and why.  And I wasn't sure how wide to expand the definition of the Tal-Wyr basin to find a suitable nation.  Now, you have helped make things clearer, and since you have given me such a generous gift I will try and do my best to come up w/ a suitable response.  Didn't the V'raal capture, impregnate, or do something w/ the Cedonian? Royalty?  I wonder how far up channel my double agents gotten :-)

Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: Archangel Press 
Sent: Sep 15, 2003 3:14 PM
To: celandra@phoenyx.net
Subject: Re: [Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

Joel, the easiest way for me to answer (assuming no one has plans otherwise)
is to give you the out-of-game information of what occured.  The original
assassination attempt was the result of a random yearly event and could have
been chalked up to anything from a secret society to another nation to a
lone nutcase.  But you paid attention and expended considerable effort to
get to the bottom of it so I decided to reward that by allowing you to find
information that you weren't specifically looking for--specifically, that
several other nations had spy network operation in your country (including
the V'raal by the way).  From here (another example of good play that
deserved a reward) you turned the table on them and worked on your own spy
network backward through the same channels being used against you.  I've
left the exact range of the network deliberately vauge to give you the
maximum possible options for play.  In theory, any nation that borders the
Tal or Wyr rivers, within reason, you could consider to have some degree of
influence in.  The amount of influence depending on how close the society in
question was to your nation and its supportes (further is weaker, closer is
stronger, in your own borders strongest.)  That's why I haven't given a
simple answer to the range or the reason.  The range is subjective, working
to your advantage, and the reason is undefined.  You (or someone else) could
take it and expand on it or you can consider the matter effectively closed.
Either way, with your current network, Villard is significantly safer.  I
hope that's a clear answer that you can use.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Elfman" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions


> I have never received a reply to repeated questions about what constitutes
the range of the Tal-Wyr basin and why assassins from there would have any
reason to attack King Villard.
>
> Joel
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.

----------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------
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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Tue

Sep 16
2003

17:59Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Joel Elfman wrote:
> This should be fun to play w/, unless Juuso would prefer to create
> something specific.

Naaa, go ahead.

juuso
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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Tue

Sep 16
2003

18:22Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

Cool!
 
   I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal and impregnated? 
 
 If not could someone give me the correct storyline if the Burcancy uncovered it.  Or feel free to tell me a version?  If you prefer I'll think of something else to do w/ my unraveling of the spy network(s) in the Burcancy.
 
Joel

"Juha Vesanto (Juuso)"  wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Joel Elfman wrote:
> This should be fun to play w/, unless Juuso would prefer to create
> something specific.

Naaa, go ahead.

juuso
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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Tue

Sep 16
2003

18:43Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

>    I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal and
impregnated?

Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)

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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Tue

Sep 16
2003

20:13Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

And her whereabouts are currently unknown is that also correct?
 
Hmmmm... I smell a daring rescue in the works. :-)
 
Joel

Archangel Press  wrote:
> I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal and
impregnated?

Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)

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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Tue

Sep 16
2003

20:18Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

To the best of my knowledge, only two societies know where she might be.
Hehe, this is looking good.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Elfman" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions


> And her whereabouts are currently unknown is that also correct?
>
> Hmmmm... I smell a daring rescue in the works. :-)
>
> Joel
>
> Archangel Press  wrote:
> > I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal and
> impregnated?
>
> Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>
>
>
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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Tue

Sep 16
2003

20:28Z

[Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions

Well the V'raal have to be one.  Would my spies know the other?  Or is it the Mir or Eeithree?
 
Joel

Archangel Press  wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, only two societies know where she might be.
Hehe, this is looking good.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Elfman" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Cel] [qai]Unanswered Questions


> And her whereabouts are currently unknown is that also correct?
>
> Hmmmm... I smell a daring rescue in the works. :-)
>
> Joel
>
> Archangel Press wrote:
> > I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal and
> impregnated?
>
> Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>
>
>
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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Tue

Sep 16
2003

20:21Z

[Cel] [qai]More Unanswered Questions

Archangel Press  wrote:
> I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal and
impregnated?

Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)


I won't even begin to answer that comment.... :)

Approximately how old are the children?

And was there ever any determination who the father is?

Thanks,

Joel



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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Wed

Sep 17
2003

05:10Z

[Cel] [qai]More Unanswered Questions

--- Joel Elfman  wrote:
> Archangel Press  wrote:
> > I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal
> and
> impregnated?

Yeesh, I kinda wish I'd known about that. So that's where she
disappeared to when the Sinari sacked Thalcedon?

> Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)

Concurrently or consecutively? >;-)
 
> 
> I won't even begin to answer that comment.... :)
> 
> Approximately how old are the children?
> 
> And was there ever any determination who the father is?

If Empress Yzara ever turns up again, I can just see this mess this 
would make of the Imperial Line of Succession. Priests can get so
worked up about unimportant little details, like parentage and
legitimacy and miscegenation :-). Not to mention that if she turns up
alive, it's going to make a lot of people in Cedonia very unhappy,
starting with her uncle, Duke Caladyn, and working on down from there.

Andrew Janssen

> Thanks,
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
>
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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Wed

Sep 17
2003

12:03Z

[Cel] [qai]The Empress If Returned

Andrew,
 
     I am not sure if I have all the emails for the game in my mailbox, I've been having to dump stuff for space considerations.  Could you summarize the factions, and let's talk, provided there is a successful rescue which faction might be best to receive the Empress.  King Villard would also look out for their welfare along w/ political considerations.
 
Joel

Andrew Janssen  wrote:
--- Joel Elfman wrote:
> Archangel Press wrote:
> > I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal
> and
> impregnated?

Yeesh, I kinda wish I'd known about that. So that's where she
disappeared to when the Sinari sacked Thalcedon?

> Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)

Concurrently or consecutively? >;-)

> 
> I won't even begin to answer that comment.... :)
> 
> Approximately how old are the children?
> 
> And was there ever any determination who the father is?

If Empress Yzara ever turns up again, I can just see this mess this 
would make of the Imperial Line of Succession. Priests can get so
worked up about unimportant little details, like parentage and
legitimacy and miscegenation :-). Not to mention that if she turns up
alive, it's going to make a lot of people in Cedonia very unhappy,
starting with her uncle, Duke Caladyn, and working on down from there.

Andrew Janssen

> Thanks,
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
>
software----------------------------------------------------------------
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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Wed

Sep 17
2003

14:49Z

[Cel] [qai]The Empress If Returned

--- Joel Elfman  wrote:
> Andrew,
>  
>      I am not sure if I have all the emails for the game in my
> mailbox, I've been having to dump stuff for space considerations. 
> Could you summarize the factions, and let's talk, provided there is a
> successful rescue which faction might be best to receive the Empress.
>  King Villard would also look out for their welfare along w/
> political considerations.
>  
> Joel

Ok, here's a quick rundown on the factions:

* Duke Yarrow of Caladyn: He's the younger brother of Empress Yzara's
father; in other words, her paternal uncle. The Duke is also the heir
presumptive to the Imperial throne; in other words, as long as the
Empress Yzara had no children, he was next in line of succession.
Before and during the Sinari War, he was commander-in-chief of the
Imperial Army, and directly in command of the legions around Talishera,
where he worked closely with the Army of Mir. After the war, he put
down various rebellions in northern Cedonia and is consolidating his
power base so that he can claim the throne.

* General Zenos: He's minor Cedonian nobility, very distantly connected
to the Imperial Family. He was second-in-command of the Cedonian
legions invading Tanimbar in the south. When Thalcedon was sacked and
the southern army was cut off, he led the remains of the army on a very
difficult retreat north through Tanimbar and Vizinia. When he heard
that the Empress had disappeared, he decided that the Imperial Diadem
would look good on his head. He's been consolidating *his* power base
in southern Cedonia ever since.

* Dr. Aldan Vellin: A former professor at the University of Thalcedon,
lecturing in civil engineering and political economy. He belongs to
Cedonia's growing urban middle-class. After the sack of Thalcedon by
the Sinari, he played a leading role in the reconstruction efforts,
becoming the Director of Public Works, then leader of the Civic
Council. He is the most prominent figure in the Republican movement
that is sweeping the great cities of Cedonia.

As far as which faction would be best to receive the Empress if she can
be rescued, the sad fact is that *none* of the factions want her back.
General Zenos would probably have her and any children quietly killed,
Dr. Vellin and the republicans would probably imprison her and then
extort massive political concessions from her(think King John and the
Magna Carta, or King Charles I and Oliver Cromwell). Duke Caladyn would
have mixed feelings about her return. If she were to appear before he
gets around to formally proclaiming himself Emperor, he'd stand aside
in her favor. If she returns *after* he's put himself on the throne,
he'll probably force her to sign an Instrument of Abdication and send
her to a nunnery; he'll adopt any children she has as his own
heirs--all of his sons died during the Sinari war, and since his
daughters are all married, he doesn't fancy putting any of his
sons-in-law on the throne with them.

Hope that helps,
Andrew Janssen

> Andrew Janssen  wrote:
> --- Joel Elfman wrote:
> > Archangel Press wrote:
> > > I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal
> > and
> > impregnated?
> 
> Yeesh, I kinda wish I'd known about that. So that's where she
> disappeared to when the Sinari sacked Thalcedon?
> 
> > Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)
> 
> Concurrently or consecutively? >;-)
> 
> > 
> > I won't even begin to answer that comment.... :)
> > 
> > Approximately how old are the children?
> > 
> > And was there ever any determination who the father is?
> 
> If Empress Yzara ever turns up again, I can just see this mess this 
> would make of the Imperial Line of Succession. Priests can get so
> worked up about unimportant little details, like parentage and
> legitimacy and miscegenation :-). Not to mention that if she turns up
> alive, it's going to make a lot of people in Cedonia very unhappy,
> starting with her uncle, Duke Caladyn, and working on down from
> there.
> 
> Andrew Janssen
> 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Joel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
> >
>
software----------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> 
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> 
> 
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>
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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Wed

Sep 17
2003

15:42Z

[Cel] [qai]The Empress If Returned

Is there a plan for when the Duke is making himself Emperor?
 
I might make the rescue a 2 yr. operation waiting for a window of opportunity and getting extra info.
 
Also, we could keep the Empress in exile in the Burcancy, but you would be writing the orders for her since she is Cedonian.  One of King Villard's goals if she was rescued would be to keep her & her children alive.
 
Joel


Andrew Janssen  wrote:
--- Joel Elfman wrote:
> Andrew,
> 
> I am not sure if I have all the emails for the game in my
> mailbox, I've been having to dump stuff for space considerations. 
> Could you summarize the factions, and let's talk, provided there is a
> successful rescue which faction might be best to receive the Empress.
> King Villard would also look out for their welfare along w/
> political considerations.
> 
> Joel

Ok, here's a quick rundown on the factions:

* Duke Yarrow of Caladyn: He's the younger brother of Empress Yzara's
father; in other words, her paternal uncle. The Duke is also the heir
presumptive to the Imperial throne; in other words, as long as the
Empress Yzara had no children, he was next in line of succession.
Before and during the Sinari War, he was commander-in-chief of the
Imperial Army, and directly in command of the legions around Talishera,
where he worked closely with the Army of Mir. After the war, he put
down various rebellions in northern Cedonia and is consolidating his
power base so that he can claim the throne.

* General Zenos: He's minor Cedonian nobility, very distantly connected
to the Imperial Family. He was second-in-command of the Cedonian
legions invading Tanimbar in the south. When Thalcedon was sacked and
the southern army was cut off, he led the remains of the army on a very
difficult retreat north through Tanimbar and Vizinia. When he heard
that the Empress had disappeared, he decided that the Imperial Diadem
would look good on his head. He's been consolidating *his* power base
in southern Cedonia ever since.

* Dr. Aldan Vellin: A former professor at the University of Thalcedon,
lecturing in civil engineering and political economy. He belongs to
Cedonia's growing urban middle-class. After the sack of Thalcedon by
the Sinari, he played a leading role in the reconstruction efforts,
becoming the Director of Public Works, then leader of the Civic
Council. He is the most prominent figure in the Republican movement
that is sweeping the great cities of Cedonia.

As far as which faction would be best to receive the Empress if she can
be rescued, the sad fact is that *none* of the factions want her back.
General Zenos would probably have her and any children quietly killed,
Dr. Vellin and the republicans would probably imprison her and then
extort massive political concessions from her(think King John and the
Magna Carta, or King Charles I and Oliver Cromwell). Duke Caladyn would
have mixed feelings about her return. If she were to appear before he
gets around to formally proclaiming himself Emperor, he'd stand aside
in her favor. If she returns *after* he's put himself on the throne,
he'll probably force her to sign an Instrument of Abdication and send
her to a nunnery; he'll adopt any children she has as his own
heirs--all of his sons died during the Sinari war, and since his
daughters are all married, he doesn't fancy putting any of his
sons-in-law on the throne with them.

Hope that helps,
Andrew Janssen

> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> --- Joel Elfman wrote:
> > Archangel Press wrote:
> > > I am correct that the Cedonian Queen was kidnapped by the V'raal
> > and
> > impregnated?
> 
> Yeesh, I kinda wish I'd known about that. So that's where she
> disappeared to when the Sinari sacked Thalcedon?
> 
> > Yes, twice (so maybe she isn't unhappy after all...)
> 
> Concurrently or consecutively? >;-)
> 
> > 
> > I won't even begin to answer that comment.... :)
> > 
> > Approximately how old are the children?
> > 
> > And was there ever any determination who the father is?
> 
> If Empress Yzara ever turns up again, I can just see this mess this 
> would make of the Imperial Line of Succession. Priests can get so
> worked up about unimportant little details, like parentage and
> legitimacy and miscegenation :-). Not to mention that if she turns up
> alive, it's going to make a lot of people in Cedonia very unhappy,
> starting with her uncle, Duke Caladyn, and working on down from
> there.
> 
> Andrew Janssen
> 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Joel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
> >
>
software----------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Thu

Sep 18
2003

03:02Z

[Cel] [qai]The Empress If Returned

As far as planning goes, here's an outline of my plans for Cedonia for
the next couple of years. Next year, 1437, the Duke will move against
General Zenos. Until Zenos is removed from the political equation, the
Duke won't press his claim to the throne. 

A likely scenario: the Duke proclaims himself as Imperial Regent, since
Empress Yzara's fate is not known to the Cedonians. If she doesn't turn
up by 1440, he'll declare her to be dead and take the throne. This
assumes, by the way, that the Duke of Caladyn beats Zenos, and that he
reaches an accomodation with the Republicans.

If Zenos comes out on top, and Yzara tries to return to Cedonia, her
life and that of her children will have about as much value as a
Confederate $3 bill.

If the Republicans win, the only way they'd let her return from exile
would be if she agreed to a constitutional monarchy; they'd let her
reign, but not rule.

To be honest, I'm not really interested in putting the Empress Yzara
back in play as a key element. I'd rather take Cedonia in a different
direction.

Andrew Janssen

--- Joel Elfman  wrote:
> Is there a plan for when the Duke is making himself Emperor?
>  
> I might make the rescue a 2 yr. operation waiting for a window of
> opportunity and getting extra info.
>  
> Also, we could keep the Empress in exile in the Burcancy, but you
> would be writing the orders for her since she is Cedonian.  One of
> King Villard's goals if she was rescued would be to keep her & her
> children alive.
>  
> Joel
> 


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JoelElfman
Joel Elfman

Thu

Sep 18
2003

05:26Z

[Cel] [qai]The Empress If Returned

Well, the rescue would be in character for Villard, and would upset the V'raal plans which is also a huge plus.  I think Villard could easily decide due to the political turmoil the Queen will be stay in the Burcancy to return at such a time as appropriate.
 
And you can pull her out if you ever need her.
 
Joel

Andrew Janssen  wrote:
As far as planning goes, here's an outline of my plans for Cedonia for
the next couple of years. Next year, 1437, the Duke will move against
General Zenos. Until Zenos is removed from the political equation, the
Duke won't press his claim to the throne. 

A likely scenario: the Duke proclaims himself as Imperial Regent, since
Empress Yzara's fate is not known to the Cedonians. If she doesn't turn
up by 1440, he'll declare her to be dead and take the throne. This
assumes, by the way, that the Duke of Caladyn beats Zenos, and that he
reaches an accomodation with the Republicans.

If Zenos comes out on top, and Yzara tries to return to Cedonia, her
life and that of her children will have about as much value as a
Confederate $3 bill.

If the Republicans win, the only way they'd let her return from exile
would be if she agreed to a constitutional monarchy; they'd let her
reign, but not rule.

To be honest, I'm not really interested in putting the Empress Yzara
back in play as a key element. I'd rather take Cedonia in a different
direction.

Andrew Janssen

--- Joel Elfman wrote:
> Is there a plan for when the Duke is making himself Emperor?
> 
> I might make the rescue a 2 yr. operation waiting for a window of
> opportunity and getting extra info.
> 
> Also, we could keep the Empress in exile in the Burcancy, but you
> would be writing the orders for her since she is Cedonian. One of
> King Villard's goals if she was rescued would be to keep her & her
> children alive.
> 
> Joel
> 


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