Qaiyore has seen the rise and fall of many civilizations over many thousands of years, some much more advanced that those currently existing. This has resulted in the overworking of much of the available cropland and rendered many areas unsuitable for cultivation without special aide. Another problem that limits cultivation are age-old curses that affect the land in certain areas. Agricultural aide can take many forms. The most common is the use of rivers and streams to provide silt and replenish the land. Magical spells (essence) or blessings (authority) can also increase crop yields, and many modern cultures that despise all forms of magic would be surprised to learn that they are relying on ancient, but still working, magic to grow crops on otherwise unsuitable land. [Do any cultures on Qaiyore use water gardens or fish farms?] What do people think? The above explains a number of things, but does it fit? Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
I would assume several cultures do use water gardens and other forms of aquaculture. They were certainly common on Earth - I know Australian, Pacific Island, Central American, and African cultures all used such things; the main distinction was whether it could produce sufficient food to be worth the effort. >From the fighting described in the Qaiyore fiction online, I'd agree that many areas would have been damaged by magic. How long do these curses last, however? Essence magick is difficult to build up to high power levels, but lasts a long time, while authority is more powerful but who listens to ancient orders? My own bias would say that they break down over just a few centuries. Of course, this is coming from a culture that doesn't farm, so how accurate my guesses are is hard to say! Bob This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > Qaiyore has seen the rise and fall of many civilizations over many > thousands > of years, some much more advanced that those currently existing. > This has > resulted in the overworking of much of the available cropland and > rendered many > areas unsuitable for cultivation without special aide. Another > problem that > limits cultivation are age-old curses that affect the land in certain > areas. I don't agree with that assessment at all. It's true that there's been civilization of one kind or another in Qaiyore for the last 4,658 years, but I don't agree with the statement about overworking and magical damage. Frankly, given the history on the old website, in a lot of areas, the land has had more than enough time to heal. The first civilization to arise in the Midsea was the Avaereans, in BE 3220. They lasted 500 years, until the Milakanuri nomads invaded in BE 2720, destroying the Avaerean presence in the Midsea, leaving only the islanders. It took nearly 400 years after the invasion for anything resembling organized civilization to appear, and it wasn't until 1,500 years after the Milakanuri destroyed the Qaiyore Avaereans that the Mir began creating their empire. Mir began collapsing in BE 72, and this is the period where land might have been damaged by magic, as the Mir used spells and Dragonfire to try to hold their realm together. After Mir's collapse, magic was banned on most of Qaiyore, and Cedonia stepped in to fill the vacuum. Cedonia peaked in 780, and was destroyed in 1280 by the aftermath of the second Ice Demon invasion(which required the use of the last Dragons of Mir to stop). That was 158 years ago. Frankly, I don't think Qaiyore's population numbers are low because of problems with the land being exhausted; the numbers are low because populations in the south Midsea area have yet to recover from the Second Ice Demon Invasion, and the North Midsea is recovering from the Sinari Invasions. That said, I still think we should adjust the numbers upward. My approach is not, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, how can I explain that?" My approach in this case is, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, what should they be changed to to be realistic?" Andrew > Agricultural aide can take many forms. The most common is the use of > rivers > and streams to provide silt and replenish the land. Magical spells > (essence) > or blessings (authority) can also increase crop yields, and many > modern > cultures that despise all forms of magic would be surprised to learn > that they are > relying on ancient, but still working, magic to grow crops on > otherwise > unsuitable land. [Do any cultures on Qaiyore use water gardens or > fish farms?] > > What do people think? The above explains a number of things, but > does it fit? > > Jefferson (Exquaestio) > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 11/16/03 10:32:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > Frankly, I don't think Qaiyore's population numbers are low because of > problems with the land being exhausted; the numbers are low because > populations in the south Midsea area have yet to recover from the > Second Ice Demon Invasion, and the North Midsea is recovering from the > Sinari Invasions. This is probably the better option. The idea of a realm where much of the land had been worked to exhaustion appealed to me, but this is definitely easier. > That said, I still think we should adjust the numbers upward. My > approach is not, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, how can I explain > that?" My approach in this case is, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, > what should they be changed to to be realistic?" I can do some work on this, but I probably won't be able to get any decent numbers posted until Sunday (Nov 23). Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 11/18/03 5:32:22 AM Mountain Standard Time, RulingNations@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 11/16/03 10:32:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, >andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > >>That said, I still think we should adjust the numbers upward. My >>approach is not, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, how can I explain >>that?" My approach in this case is, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, >>what should they be changed to to be realistic?" > >I can do some work on this, but I probably won't be able to get any decent >numbers posted until Sunday (Nov 23). OK. Finally got some numbers. I've assumed a two-field rotation, the invention and use of the horse collar, some minor magic in cultivation, and a low population so that only the best 10% of land is cultivated. For the Midsea area this works out to an average population of 5,000 per pixel (25 square miles) of which about 50% is directly involved in cultivating the land. As population density increases so must the proportion of the population directly involved in agriculture. A doubling of the population would mean about 75% of the population directly involved in agriculture. Using these numbers the isle of Orasaren should have a total population around 56,250,000 with each free city controlling about 6,250,000. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
remove me from this mailing list RulingNations@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/18/03 5:32:22 AM Mountain Standard Time, RulingNations@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 11/16/03 10:32:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, >andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > >>That said, I still think we should adjust the numbers upward. My >>approach is not, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, how can I explain >>that?" My approach in this case is, "Hm, those numbers are awfully low, >>what should they be changed to to be realistic?" > >I can do some work on this, but I probably won't be able to get any decent >numbers posted until Sunday (Nov 23). OK. Finally got some numbers. I've assumed a two-field rotation, the invention and use of the horse collar, some minor magic in cultivation, and a low population so that only the best 10% of land is cultivated. For the Midsea area this works out to an average population of 5,000 per pixel (25 square miles) of which about 50% is directly involved in cultivating the land. As population density increases so must the proportion of the population directly involved in agriculture. A doubling of the population would mean about 75% of the population directly involved in agriculture. Using these numbers the isle of Orasaren should have a total population around 56,250,000 with each free city controlling about 6,250,000. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 11/29/03 3:05:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, RulingNations@aol.com writes: >OK. Finally got some numbers. I've assumed a two-field rotation, the >invention and use of the horse collar, some minor magic in cultivation, >and a low population so that only the best 10% of land is cultivated. >For the Midsea area this works out to an average population of 5,000 per >pixel (25 square miles) of which about 50% is directly involved in >cultivating the land. Well, after doing some more research it turns out that I _drastically_ overestimated the amount of potentially arable land. Anyway, references put population density from 2 per square mile (low production borderlands after Norman invasion) to 150 per square mile (developed French countryside). Based on these numbers a good density for the Qaiyore Midsea region would be 30 per square mile or 750 per pixel, mainly concentrated in coastlands and river valleys. Using these new numbers the isle of Orasaren should have a total population around 8,500,000, only 70% larger than what's stated on the site. References: The Domesday Book: http://www.domesdaybook.co.uk/ Medieval Demographics Made Easy: http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm Fantasy Agriculture: http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/agricult.htm Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
