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Celandra is a game in which the players take the roles of societies, rather than playing individual characters. The players will invent a society with its culture and heritage, and will guide its development and interaction with the world. Emphasis will be be placed on developing a detailed history of Celandra, along with myths and legends.
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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Mon

Dec 8
2003

19:42Z

[Cel] [qai] (a glimpse into the Eerith/Onagir actions and a letter from Granthtan on religion)

"Reverend Mother?"

"Deference is not in your character, Useful.  What troubles you?"

            "We could easily become overextended; our people have never been numerous."

            "You see the patterns as well then?"

            "Yes.  Events are accelerating.  Something stirs and it is not of our doing."

            The woman laughed bitterly.  "Not a situation familiar to you."

            "Indeed."  The reply held no trace of humor.

            "Have faith, old friend, and remain focused.  Old debts and new obligations-nothing more.  So long as we do not seek beyond service and righteousness, we will be within our place.  The rest is in the hands of the Creator."

***

            Five they were, golden lights in ragged robes, false flesh tattooed with the running of rivers.

            "I speak."

            "And for these, do I," came the reply as the Speaker of the Wood stepped apart from his fellow Onagir and moved to meet the traveler.  "Come," he said, formality melting away with a shrug, "Let us walk as we speak.  You heard our call?"

            "We always will, noble Speaker.  Even if duty did not demand it, affection would."

            "Flattering but will it make a difference?"

            "Every action makes a difference.  Your people taught us that."

            The Onagir nodded.  "What do you propose?"

            "The King lives.  That you live proves this.  I shall stay with you as Speaker and one who accompanies me shall stand as King until his return.  Two to stand with the young twins until they are ready."

            "I had forgotten your kinds talent for mimicry.  I thank you, the King's role is pivotal to the traditions of our people.  What of the fifth?"

            "He will hunt the lost."  The Eerith's tone was faintly menacing.

            "Tell me, land spirit, why would the King be taken?  We have few enemies and even less power or wealth.  There is no sense to this."

            "There may be those who believe him to be of value or who see his scepter as a talisman."

            "Ridiculous.   He is an old blind man with a battered walking stick.  At best they are a symbol."

            "It is your people, noble Speaker, who taught us that oft times the belief is more powerful than the fact."

            The Onagir nodded.  "And so the children are grown and come home again to teach the lessons of the parents anew.  Well then, if they have been stolen?"

            The wanderer laughed.  "We have a thief of our own."

***

Niotrosa (my apologies for the delay in response, I have been ill again)

            A study of the religions of the land is a maze which could take a man a lifetime to navigate.  To understand them would take at least another lifetime beyond that.  In my own experiences, I have had the matter further complicated by the assistance of the Eerith who have, in their typically obscure fashion, attempted to 'explain' the matter to me.  Nevertheless, I shall attempt to pass along the bits of string I have managed to weave together.

            All power, from existence to life to high arcanum, is ultimately under the authority of the Creator himself.  Any exercise of individual power is through authority ceded, delegated if you will, by the Creator to his creation.  As confusing as it seems, if I understand aright, this is the basis even of the physical laws of our world.  A rock exists, falls to the ground, is hard-all of these things, because the Creator has delegated to it authority over those constituent aspect which make up 'rock'.  It is a convoluted way to say that the Creator imbued creation with rules of natural order.  Rocks are rocks because they were created so.  They fall as rocks, break as rocks, and so on because they are rocks and, should they do otherwise, then they are not rocks.  Ah, you see the depths of sophistry these Eerith have driven me too?

            The crux of the matter is that men and gods are, at the pragmatic root, no different from rocks.  What power they possess is theirs only because the Creator granted it to them, delegated authority.  Priest of any given god, exercise their power under the authority delegated from their god to them.  The mages of Mir practice powerful magics, that is, exercise authority over their surroundings, because the goddess Miracradasa has granted them this authority.  She can grant this authority because the Creator has, in turn, granted her authority over these magics.  Think of it as a funnel-the Creator gives to each god (or god-like entity) authority over certain things, he grants them power.  They can pass a portion of this authority, this power, to those beneath them and so on.  It is possible that there are tiers of gods, power structures undreamt of by us.  I cannot say; we only know of those powers who choose to interact with us.

            On a more mundane level, the practices of each religion are set by the deity of that religion or their priesthood.  Some require rituals, some require sacrifices, some as nothing more than token statements of allegiance.  Each, presumably, has their own preferences and/or needs.  Lucia, for example, requires that her followers aid the needy and defend the innocent.  Miracradasa bases her favor, not on ideology, but on geographic heritage.  One is concerned with a creed of behavior; the other, a welfare of a specific people.  I would presume that the reasons for this may be found within the nature of the deity itself and would be reflected in the way they are worshipped.  The followers of Lucia would never consider offering an innocent human sacrifice (for such a thing would be intrinsically offensive to Lucia) while, I must sadly admit, the history of Mir is not so ethically exacting.  

            The specific reasons may never be known to us.  Again, we can assume human motives based on commodities and variables we mortals do not conceive but these are only assumptions.

            It is here that the Eerith have thrown a distressing wrinkle into the discussion.  Everything I have discussed previously is commonly accepted among most religious scholars-we are a world of people who serve the whims and wishes of gods (each according to their tastes) in exchange for the boons that they grant.  Even the obeah of the shamanistic peoples  can be reconciled to this model if one accepts that the natural spirits are delegates of higher gods.  But the Eerith fly in the face of this.

            More specifically, they present a new face to it.  The Eerith are, for practical purposes, immortal and near deific in their own right.  They have no physical needs and no physical fears, most especially that primary fear which drives all men-death.  By conventional definition, they should be as gods.  Instead, they have been slaves and now have chosen to become servants.

            They do not believe that all of the gods are entities.  Several have insisted to me that they are facets of single entities.  The moral creeds of Lucia and the protective nurturing of Miracradasa are faces of a single entity which oversees both, for example.  This is not that difficult for me to accept.  Certainly, several of the gods could be the same god wearing a different name or face.  The disconcerting part of the Eerith belief, however, is that, ultimately, all of the entities we see as gods are actually embodiments of different facets of the Creator itself or of his absence.  The Eerith follow a unprecedented merger of many gods and one-a polytheistic monotheism!  They are motivated, not to appease any single god, but to please the Creator.  When I press them for an explanation of how they can possibly discern what is pleasing to an abstract Creator, they answer me by discussing Valor and the Vision of Albous.  Quite honestly, this 'answer' is more of a riddle than the original question.  Valor's creed seems to mirror what is commonly considered 'good' but history has shown that Eerithian 'good' is not always a comfortable match with that of humanity and that, in pursuit of what they perceive of as 'right', they are capable of horrors worse than the most avowed evil of men.  I trust them only because they seem to have recognized at least a portion of the threat they present and are committed to a passive service.  Should they ever acquire selfish ambition.well, praise Mira that Valor's creed forbids it.

            The interesting portion of this contradictory mix of mono and poly is that it would answer many questions:  why obeah and will can be exercised by the same person, why despite years of war the lands remain fertile, why even with this fertility Qaiyore remains fundamentally rural and 'primitive', even why the gods themselves have an interest in us at all and why most of them seem basically benevolent.

            My apologies, young sire, I doubt that I have answered what you asked.  I'm not sure that anyone conclusively can.  As the Eerith say "You cannot quantitate the transcendent.  Gods do not fix within the cages built for them by men."  As you requested, I asked them why the gods have not become abusive of the people of Qaiyore.  I received two answers:  "How do you know that they haven't?" and the marginally more comforting "Perhaps the Creator has a fondness for mundanes.  Perhaps you have very powerful protectors who guard against this abuse."

            Despite my recent illness, I am still traveling with the southern tribes.  It may be several months before I am again in a position to communicate but I will respond as I can.  My thanks for your indulgent.  Please pass my regards to your father as well.

            --Granth.-- 

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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Mon

Dec 8
2003

21:11Z

[Cel] [qai] (a glimpse into the Eerith/Onagir actions and a letter from Granthtan on religion)

M. Keaton, Archangel Press wrote:

>            "He will hunt the lost."  The Eerith's tone was faintly menacing.
>  
>
Is that an Action? Or shall I just weave that into the story?

>Niotrosa (my apologies for the delay in response, I have been ill again)
>
>            A study of the religions of the land is a maze which could take a man a lifetime to navigate.  
>
As usual, the Eerith "explanations" leave me a little vague of what the
original question might have been :-) But officially, Keaton's word on
how Dreaming/magic works is the truth.

Anyway, I can still see the problem that Jeff (or perhaps Feroze/Exquaestio)
is facing. In order to settle into his position, Jeff needs to know what 
is the
environment. While the geography of Qaiyore has been laid out, very little
work has been done on mapping its religious equivalent. A few gods have
been mentioned: Lucia in Cedonia, Miracradasa, the Ladies of Ka'Shari,
the Proteus; but overall these do not cover very much of Qaiyore, or even
the Midsea area.

So, the real question might be: what are the major religions on Qaiyore,
and what are they like?

juuso










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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Mon

Dec 8
2003

23:27Z

[Cel] [qai] religions

> >            "He will hunt the lost."  The Eerith's tone was faintly
menacing.
> >
> >
> Is that an Action? Or shall I just weave that into the story?
>

Not an official action, no.  It's just for the purposes of story (and game
continuity).  The Eerith are pretty much all narrative and no actions
(imbalanced play) but I'll try to get Mir's action in within the next day or
so.


> So, the real question might be: what are the major religions on Qaiyore,
> and what are they like?

 THAT is the spot on question!  I included almost every developed qai
religion that I know of:  Lucia (probably including most of the surrounding
Cedonian areas), Mir (and other societies like the Ka'Shari who worship a
god of magic; fairly common and widespread given the history of the empire),
and Valor (which actually includes, not only the Eerith but also the Saraa
and most likely the Terebuani).

The Onagir are obeahist and I suspect most of the tribes and nomads are as
well.  (The Amo'trall have a sect that worships a goddess to be named later
and the Hria worship a bird-spirit which could be considered a variation on
the theme.  The Tana have shamens, the Tora worship animal totems and local
spirits, Cormenaera (and presumably most of the Defense core) worship the
Lord of the Sea but nothing is detailed etc.).

The shanari are a people "in progress" as far as the state of their
religion.  I know Ibrahim has been working on that.

The Ban Horroth and the L'R have their own specialized doctrines regarding
their race that actually has very active gods and priests.  Presumably the
Vraa'al would also fit into this category although, as yet, they are
undefined on this point.

Many more militant societies seem to opt for a default "Caesar is the
leader/Caesar is god" kind of Deus Rex.  The Razanian coast appears to
espouse this and, beyond it, Videssia is openly hostile to magic and
religion (and also falling into anarchy and persecuting the Onagir...there's
a reckoning coming here--the rise of an agressively evil religion perhaps?)



If I were to make a geographic summary I'd say that most civilized lands,
especially in the area of northern midsea and the northeastern kingdoms,
follow a kind of pro forma generic worship of "good" and "magic" remnant
from the old Mirrish empire with no real passion of conviction.  In the
north and west, much the same except based around avatars of Lucia and, with
the exception of the Order, also passionless.  The southern midsea area has
probably merged both of these ideals into a sailor's Lord of the Sea where
the sailors believe and the landlovers pay lip service.  Shamanism (obeah)
runs constant across the land among the 'primative' peoples and is
especially strong in the difficult reaches such as the deep south and the
northern mountians.  Finally, the inhuman races have the closest ties to the
Dreaming and the closests ties to their gods.

It's not great but it's a start.

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RulingNations
RulingNations

Tue

Dec 9
2003

03:30Z

[Cel] [qai] religions

In a message dated 12/8/03 4:28:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
dfsolley@comcast.net writes:

>The southern Midsea area has probably merged both of these ideals into
>a sailor's Lord of the Sea where the sailors believe and the landlovers
>pay lip service.

So; let's see.

None of the existing southern Midsea religions are particularly
activist, but they are deeply entrenched. What Exquaestio is
encountering isn't so much hostility (although there is some of that) as
indifference. Avoiding questions about religion has become commonplace.
Each religion is fragmented with competing factions. Because of the
currently divided nature of the southern Midsea active persecution is
likely to be matched by active support from the persecutor's enemies.
(Hmmm, any word on the Parglug / Videssia conflict?) The church of the
Lord of the Sea is decadent, the church in Parglug is subservient to the
nobility, and the church in Videssia is hostile to magic in any form.
(I'm not quite sure how the Onagir and Eerith fit in yet.)

So, what does Exquaestio offer? First it is activist. The Anradan supply
physical force and protection from magical threats. The espiri supply
rites (spells). The Anradan are in communication with and supportive of
each other. All factions teach and train. Second, it teaches limits to
the authority of the church. Exquaestio may advise, but the decisions of
a farmer or a ruler are that person's to make. It is also unified. The
original belief hasn't broken down into competing factions (yet).
Finally, it is inclusive. It has no problems with fitting other beliefs
into its structure, and welcomes questions into its own.

Now for its problems. First, it's difficult for most people to
understand. It's beliefs and structures aren't organized the way most
people are used to. For some it's incomprehensible, for others
frightening. (This may be why Feroze stressed the teaching of children.)
Second, it has no existing power base. Economically poor and based in a
hardscrabble region it has no political or religious alliances to call
on. Third, there's no overarching belief structure for it to overcome.
Other beliefs in the area are divided and approaches that work in one
area aren't easily transported.

So, all told, Exquaestio is currently in a fairly good position.
Considering the existing religious factioning, 1,000 worshipers isn't
bad. It doesn't make them powerful, but they're far from the least
powerful religious faction in the area. The 1.4% (and potentially up to
6%?) proportion of those who wield authority magic is higher than most
(almost all?) existing religions, but still reasonable. I'm not quite
sure how much attention they're receiving from the existing political
and religious structures. Probably not much, if any.

Does all that sound good?

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Wed

Dec 10
2003

21:01Z

[Cel] [qai] religions

RulingNations@aol.com wrote:

>None of the existing southern Midsea religions are particularly
>activist, but they are deeply entrenched. What Exquaestio is
>encountering isn't so much hostility (although there is some of that) as
>indifference. 
>
Sounds poosible, but you could invent for yourself some local opponents 
there.
Make up a few (sample) religions that are active in that area. There's 
bound to
be religions to give moral support and bless 
people/children/marriages/crops/etc.

>So, all told, Exquaestio is currently in a fairly good position.
>Considering the existing religious factioning, 1,000 worshipers isn't
>bad. It doesn't make them powerful, but they're far from the least
>powerful religious faction in the area. 
>
There could also be a spiritual vacuum, which Exquaestio would help to fill.

>(almost all?) existing religions, but still reasonable. I'm not quite
>sure how much attention they're receiving from the existing political
>and religious structures. Probably not much, if any.
>  
>
Not much, so far. But that will change when the organization grows.

juuso

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Iso88591Qibrahim
=?iso-8859-1?q?i?=

Wed

Dec 10
2003

02:28Z

[Cel] [qai] religions (Shanari)

"M. Keaton, Archangel Press"  wrote:
The shanari are a people "in progress" as far as the state of their
religion. I know Ibrahim has been working on that.
The Shanari, for those not in the know ;) are the nomadic people of the Calarnar desert.  Similiar to the Berber of North Africa, the Bedouin of Arabia and the Mongols of the Gobi, but different to all three.  The majority of the population live as nomads, except for the Jabuasi around Port Jabau, the Shanari capital Akbari in the central mountains, and a Shanari settlement in the upper Kelshiri river.
 
For a period, the Shanari took the world stage with the rise of the Sinari Cult, before being heavily defeated in the last battle of the Sinari War.  As a result a massive decrease in population occurred.
 
In the post-Sinari period, a new religion developed in the central mountains, founded by a Milakanuri exile known as the Conveyor.  He's dead now, but the religion and holy book he left have created a Commonwealth unifying a large portion of the Shanari (and with plans to unify the rest).  I guess thats what the current civil war is about.
 
The religion of the Shanari, known as "Millat Shanari" (or Path of the Shanari) as preached by the Conveyor, was a simple form of iconoclastic monotheism.  Strongly anti-magic, in reaction to the role the former Seeresses had played in the Sinari cult, it emphasised a basic form of nationalism and the return to the best features of Shanari culture (trade, commerce and enterprise).  A key myth of the Millat Shanari religion is that Sin Alb ("He Who Is One") is an all-powerful all encompassing deity, who has no image in the Shanari temples, and whose power and greatness becomes almost pantheistic for some Shanari.  Quite mysterious indeed.
 
The "grand myth" (all religions having a central grand myth) of the Millat Shanari is best seen in the following quotation:
 

The Gospel of Shanar, revelation 2, reading 1-2:

 

“Sons of Shanar!  Do you not remember the time of Shanar?  Truly He Who is One blessed Shanar and his sons with a land of beauty and fertility, and Shanar was a dutiful servant, and obeyed He Who is One.  And He Who is One rewarded Shanar, and the sons of Shanar were many.  

 

Sons of Shanar!  Do you not remember?  For Khalf son of Olric son of Shanar rebelled against his father, and against his Lord, and He Who is One struck the sons of Shanar for their unfaithfulness and whisperings.  And the sons of Shanar inherited naught but the dust and the heat, for the gardens of Calarnar itself had rejected them, giving nort but sand.

 
Sons of Shanar!  Do you not remember?  Heed the warning from this messenger, the Conveyor, for he is but a servant of He Who is One.  Heed and you shall succeed, rebel and you shall enjoy only that which disappears, and not that which lasts.  This is the message sent to all nations, and those who have eyes, understand and believe.”
 
I hope to rehabilitate the Millat Shanari religion through the Republic of Kaeir, as some of the more machiavellian politicians come to the fore of republican politics.

cheers,
 
Ibrahim Underwood
 
Republic of Kaeir

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RulingNations
RulingNations

Fri

Dec 12
2003

00:23Z

[Cel] [qai] religions (Shanari)

In a message dated 12/9/03 7:28:49 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
ibrahimunderwood@yahoo.com writes:

>  The religion of the Shanari, known as "Millat Shanari" (or Path of the 
> Shanari) as preached by the Conveyor, was a simple form of iconoclastic 
> monotheism.  Strongly anti-magic, in reaction to the role the former 
> Seeresses had played in the Sinari cult, it emphasised a basic form of 
> nationalism and the return to the best features of Shanari culture (trade, 
> commerce and enterprise).  A key myth of the Millat Shanari religion is 
that 
> Sin Alb ("He Who Is One") is an all-powerful all encompassing deity, who 
has 
> no image in the Shanari temples, and whose power and greatness becomes
> almost pantheistic for some Shanari.  Quite mysterious indeed.

Hmmm I see a possible future with a monotheistic anti-magic religion in the 
northern Midsea region and a polytheistic pro-magic religion in the southern 
Midsea region.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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Iso88591Qibrahim
=?iso-8859-1?q?i?=

Fri

Dec 12
2003

02:03Z

[Cel] [qai] religions (Shanari)

Jefferson,
 
Quite possible indeed.  Considering the nature of the Celandra universe, and the role of the supernatural, makes for an interesting mix.
 
: )
 
Ibrahim

RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/9/03 7:28:49 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
ibrahimunderwood@yahoo.com writes:

Hmmm I see a possible future with a monotheistic anti-magic religion in the 
northern Midsea region and a polytheistic pro-magic religion in the southern 
Midsea region.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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