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Celandra is a game in which the players take the roles of societies, rather than playing individual characters. The players will invent a society with its culture and heritage, and will guide its development and interaction with the world. Emphasis will be be placed on developing a detailed history of Celandra, along with myths and legends.
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RulingNations
RulingNations

Fri

Jan 16
2004

19:48Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

Has anything been developed about Celandra's astronomy?  How many moons, 
other planets, significant constellations, etc.?

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Fri

Jan 16
2004

21:13Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

RulingNations@aol.com wrote:

>Has anything been developed about Celandra's astronomy?  How many moons, 
>other planets, significant constellations, etc.?
>  
>
No, as far as I know.

juuso
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RulingNations
RulingNations

Sun

Feb 22
2004

02:25Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

In a message dated 1/16/04 2:14:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, juuso@iki.fi 
writes:
>  RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
>  
>  >Has anything been developed about Celandra's astronomy?  How many moons, 
>  >other planets, significant constellations, etc.?
>  >
>  No, as far as I know.

OK.  I guess we can assume a G-type star and a standard length day and year.

How about giving the planet two moons though?  A "greater moon" and a "lesser 
moon."

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Sun

Feb 22
2004

05:57Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

Giving Celandra two moons is a tempting idea, and rather traditional in
fantasy settings, to boot, but what would the consequences of two moons
be?

With two moons, Celandra's tides would be complex and more difficult to
predict. The size of each moon and the distance from Celandra would
affect tides, as well as the development of calendars. We have a hard
time reconciling lunar and solar time here on Earth, with one moon; how
hard would it be with two? And would the moons be tidally locked to
Earth or not?

On a different note, some scientists postulate that a single large moon
is a neccessary requirement for a planet to develop complex life. This
is, of course, untestable at the moment.

Of course, before talking about Sun, moons, and planets, we should
answer the question of whether Celandra's cosmology is
Ptolemaic/geocentric or Copernican/heliocentric. It makes a
considerable difference.

Andrew


--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/16/04 2:14:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> juuso@iki.fi 
> writes:
> >  RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >Has anything been developed about Celandra's astronomy?  How many
> moons, 
> >  >other planets, significant constellations, etc.?
> >  >
> >  No, as far as I know.
> 
> OK.  I guess we can assume a G-type star and a standard length day
> and year.
> 
> How about giving the planet two moons though?  A "greater moon" and a
> "lesser 
> moon."
> 
> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.


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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Sun

Feb 22
2004

15:30Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

RulingNations@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 1/16/04 2:14:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, juuso@iki.fi 
>writes:
>  
>
>> RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> >Has anything been developed about Celandra's astronomy?  How many moons, 
>> >other planets, significant constellations, etc.?
>> >
>> No, as far as I know.
>>    
>>
>
>OK.  I guess we can assume a G-type star and a standard length day and year.
>
>How about giving the planet two moons though?  A "greater moon" and a "lesser 
>moon."
>  
>
Suits me. My suggestion is that the greater moon is much like ours (in 
terms of
size and length of ... month). The lesser is much smaller, although 
still clearly visible,
and takes a longer time to go around the planet.

juuso


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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Mon

Feb 23
2004

03:48Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

--- Juuso Vesanto  wrote:
> RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >In a message dated 1/16/04 2:14:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> juuso@iki.fi 
> >writes:
> >  
> >
> >> RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Has anything been developed about Celandra's astronomy?  How many
> moons, 
> >> >other planets, significant constellations, etc.?
> >> >
> >> No, as far as I know.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >OK.  I guess we can assume a G-type star and a standard length day
> and year.
> >
> >How about giving the planet two moons though?  A "greater moon" and
> a "lesser 
> >moon."
> >  
> >
> Suits me. My suggestion is that the greater moon is much like ours
> (in 
> terms of
> size and length of ... month). The lesser is much smaller, although 
> still clearly visible,
> and takes a longer time to go around the planet.

Actually, if the 'lesser' moon takes a longer time to orbit the planet,
that automatically makes it farther away than the 'greater' moon. It
could be that the 'lesser' moon is larger than the 'greater' moon, but
appears smaller due to distance.

Andrew

> juuso
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.


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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Mon

Feb 23
2004

06:44Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

Andrew Janssen wrote:
> Actually, if the 'lesser' moon takes a longer time to orbit the planet,
> that automatically makes it farther away than the 'greater' moon. It
> could be that the 'lesser' moon is larger than the 'greater' moon, but
> appears smaller due to distance.

True. Still I think - unless someone has some specific objections to it 
- that the lesser moon should be both smaller, and further away, making 
its visible size much smaller than that of the greater moon.

juuso

PS. I try to start year 1442 later today; sorry about the delay.

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RulingNations
RulingNations

Mon

Feb 23
2004

13:31Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

In a message dated 2/21/04 10:58:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes:

>  Giving Celandra two moons is a tempting idea, and rather traditional in
>  fantasy settings, to boot, but what would the consequences of two moons
>  be?
>  
>  With two moons, Celandra's tides would be complex and more difficult to
>  predict.

"More difficult," yes, but not significantly so.  The difficulty in 
calculating tides is based more on the eccentricity of the lunar orbits (and don't 
forget the third dimension), not on the number of moons. So, unless both lunar 
orbits are wildly eccentric, any experienced seaman would be able to estimate 
fairly accurately.

However, I can see the growth of a mathematically inclined caste to predict 
the tides which are more severe than exist on our world.

>  The size of each moon and the distance from Celandra would
>  affect tides, as well as the development of calendars. We have a hard
>  time reconciling lunar and solar time here on Earth, with one moon; how
>  hard would it be with two? And would the moons be tidally locked to
>  Earth or not?

That all depends on what the creator wanted from the world when he made it.

>  On a different note, some scientists postulate that a single large moon
>  is a neccessary requirement for a planet to develop complex life. This
>  is, of course, untestable at the moment.

And probably inapplicable to a world with existent magic.

>  Of course, before talking about Sun, moons, and planets, we should
>  answer the question of whether Celandra's cosmology is
>  Ptolemaic/geocentric or Copernican/heliocentric. It makes a
>  considerable difference.

Well, yes, although not for the things I was thinking about.  I was assuming 
a Newtonian system (via Copernicus, among others) since there's so much 
real-world data and its what's people are used to.  I wasn't assuming an Einsteinean 
system since so few people actually understand relativity.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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RaFry
Robert Fry

Mon

Feb 23
2004

20:42Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

Just a note: I'm no physicist. However, I was told that the tidal effect (i.e. how big a change there is in the mean sea level) is inversely proportional to the third power of the distance. So if the second moon is both smaller and further than the first, it would have a relatively tiny effect on tides.

That said, having two obvious, moving, celestial figures would (IMO) have a strong effect on the importance of mathematics and astronomy. As well as the perceived structure of any 'heavenly' pantheon. And thus elemental magics...

    Bob
> 
> From: 
> Date: 24/02/2004 0:31:08
> To: celandra@phoenyx.net
> Subject: Re: [Cel] [World] Astronomy
> 
> 

This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au

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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Tue

Feb 24
2004

21:22Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

rafry@ozemail.com.au wrote:

>Just a note: I'm no physicist. However, I was told that the tidal effect (i.e. how big a change there is in the mean sea level) is inversely proportional to the third power of the distance. So if the second moon is both smaller and further than the first, it would have a relatively tiny effect on tides.
>  
>
IMHO, that's exactly as it should be.

>That said, having two obvious, moving, celestial figures would (IMO) have a strong effect on the importance of mathematics and astronomy. As well as the perceived structure of any 'heavenly' pantheon. And thus elemental magics...
>  
>
I kind of disagree. Celandra has "real" gods, so they don't need to 
invent many new ones.
And early astronomy was based on detecting movements of planets - not 
the moon.
I put the stuff below on the Website as "official" truth - if somebody 
really wants to have
far developed astronomy (or astrology), I can live with that, too.

Astronomy is not a very well developed subject on Celandra. Astrology
does not exist. Astronomical / cosmological questions are not, in
general, considered important.

Celandra has a Sol-like G-type star and an Earth-like length of day and 
year.
Unlike Earth, Celandra has 2 moons: the Greater Moon, with size and
other properties much like Earth's moon, and the Lesser Moon, which
is smaller, and further away. The Lesser Moon has
visible size approximately one tenth of the size of the Greater Moon.

There are other planets on the solar system, but their existence
is not common knowledge. The night sky is lighted by stars. By
common understanding, these are holes in the dome that envelops
Celandra. Other popular suggestions are that they are faraway worlds
in the Dreaming, or ancient gods.

The most common cosmological understanding is that Celandra is flat,
and the moons and the sun circulate it (geocentric). Some sea-going
people, and some highly-learned individuals, know that Celandra is actually
a sphere, and some sea-going people know how to navigate by stars. A few
mathematically oriented wizard-scientists have suggested that Celandra
actually circulates the sun, but generally this is considered an overly
complicated setup. A geocentric view is much more sensible.

juuso
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RulingNations
RulingNations

Sat

Mar 6
2004

22:57Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

In a message dated 2/24/04 2:23:32 PM Mountain Standard Time, juuso@iki.fi 
writes:

>Celandra has a Sol-like G-type star and an Earth-like length of day and 
>year.
>Unlike Earth, Celandra has 2 moons: the Greater Moon, with size and
>other properties much like Earth's moon, and the Lesser Moon, which
>is smaller, and further away. The Lesser Moon has
>visible size approximately one tenth of the size of the Greater Moon.

How about giving the lesser moon a highly eccentric orbit so that last 
sentence would read:

The Lesser Moon is highly eccentric and varies in visible size from about 20% 
to 3% of the diameter of the Greater Moon.

If I get some time I'll start plugging some numbers and report on what I come 
up with.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Sun

Mar 7
2004

21:59Z

[Cel] [World] Astronomy

RulingNations@aol.com wrote:

>How about giving the lesser moon a highly eccentric orbit so that last 
>sentence would read:
>
>The Lesser Moon is highly eccentric and varies in visible size from about 20% 
>to 3% of the diameter of the Greater Moon.
>  
>
Sure, why not.

juuso
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