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Celandra is a game in which the players take the roles of societies, rather than playing individual characters. The players will invent a society with its culture and heritage, and will guide its development and interaction with the world. Emphasis will be be placed on developing a detailed history of Celandra, along with myths and legends.
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RulingNations
RulingNations

Wed

Mar 10
2004

03:45Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

Since people don't care for my attempts at theology, what about the
following:

Though little recognized, the disaster which created the Eerith caused
scars which still affect Qaiyore today.

Religiously it became important not to unite the worship of different
deities. Cults and priesthoods became very separated and a polite
disinterest in differing religious practices became a tradition
secrecy and division.

Magic was also affected. Group magic, never common, was questioned and
faded into oblivion. The voluntary use of non-mages as supporters in
magic was anathematized.

Socially, rulers began permitting more independence and initiative from
their followers; eventually leading to the modern republics.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JasonHeaps
Jason Heaps

Wed

Mar 10
2004

05:27Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

I am not arguing with you, I am just explaining what I
have been working on for the Mirish relgion.  Thanks
for makeing me think about it a little.

Mir is Panthistical.  People on Mir tend to worship a
couple of Gods.  The Goddess Miracradsa is almost
universally worshiped on Mir, but people also worship
other gods as well.  Outside of Mirabalpur people tend
to also worship Gods, with in the original mirish
Pantheon, that relate to their living in addition to
Miracradsa.  In Mirabalpur you have a wider diversity
of nationalities.  Thoughs who's family have lived in
Mir for two generations or more and thoughs who are
Mirish worship Miracradsa, but they also worship other
Gods, for some it is gods who relate to there living,
others it is the god who was from there ancestrol home
(Like Lucia and others).   

Miracradsa is the Zeus or Odin or Ra of the Mirish
Pantheon but with even more focus.

The creator is also reconized, though not really
worshiped since he does not call a priesthood.

The Sorcerers of Mir are also priests.  Most of them
are for Miracradsa, but the other dieites do have
priests who are Sorcerers.  The Archmage is High
Priest of Miracradsa.  So they actolly do uses there
dieties for a little of there powers.  Not all of
their power.  They do uses other sources as well.

I am still working on it, but honestly it is noy high
on my list of projects.  :)

Thanks
Jason

--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> Since people don't care for my attempts at theology,
> what about the
> following:
> 
> Though little recognized, the disaster which created
> the Eerith caused
> scars which still affect Qaiyore today.
> 
> Religiously it became important not to unite the
> worship of different
> deities. Cults and priesthoods became very separated
> and a polite
> disinterest in differing religious practices became
> a tradition
> secrecy and division.
> 
> Magic was also affected. Group magic, never common,
> was questioned and
> faded into oblivion. The voluntary use of non-mages
> as supporters in
> magic was anathematized.
> 
> Socially, rulers began permitting more independence
> and initiative from
> their followers; eventually leading to the modern
> republics.
> 
> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
>
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celandra-off@phoenyx.net.


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RulingNations
RulingNations

Thu

Mar 18
2004

03:12Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

In a message dated 3/9/04 10:29:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
tosa_mir@yahoo.com writes:

>  I am not arguing with you, I am just explaining what I
>  have been working on for the Mirish religion.  Thanks
>  for making me think about it a little.
>  
>  Mir is Pantheistical.

I think you mean POLYtheist.

>  People on Mir tend to worship a
>  couple of Gods.  The Goddess Miracradasa is almost
>  universally worshiped on Mir, but people also worship
>  other gods as well.  Outside of Mirabalpur people tend
>  to also worship Gods, with in the original Mirish
>  Pantheon, that relate to their living in addition to
>  Miracradasa.  In Mirabalpur you have a wider diversity
>  of nationalities.  Those who's family have lived in
>  Mir for two generations or more and those who are
>  Mirish worship Miracradasa, but they also worship other
>  Gods, for some it is gods who relate to there living,
>  others it is the God who was from there ancestral home
>  (Like Lucia and others).   
>  
>  Miracradasa is the Zeus or Odin or Ra of the Mirish
>  Pantheon but with even more focus.

A ruling god cannot be too focused or it will lose worshipers to those 
seeking aide in other ways.  How is the worship of Miracradasa focused?

>  The creator is also recognized, though not really
>  worshiped since he does not call a priesthood.
>  
>  The Sorcerers of Mir are also priests.  Most of them
>  are for Miracradasa, but the other deities do have
>  priests who are Sorcerers.  The Archmage is High
>  Priest of Miracradasa.  So they actually do uses there
>  deities for a little of there powers.  Not all of
>  their power.  They do uses other sources as well.

What powers does Miracradasa give to her chosen?  Does she ever give powers 
to non-mages?

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JasonHeaps
Jason Heaps

Sun

Mar 21
2004

23:57Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/9/04 10:29:17 PM Mountain
> Standard Time, 
> tosa_mir@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> >  I am not arguing with you, I am just explaining
> what I
> >  have been working on for the Mirish religion. 
> Thanks
> >  for making me think about it a little.
> >  
> >  Mir is Pantheistical.
> 
> I think you mean POLYtheist.

Yes I did.  They still have a pantheon of Gods though.
 
> >  People on Mir tend to worship a
> >  couple of Gods.  The Goddess Miracradasa is
> almost
> >  universally worshiped on Mir, but people also
> worship
> >  other gods as well.  Outside of Mirabalpur people
> tend
> >  to also worship Gods, with in the original Mirish
> >  Pantheon, that relate to their living in addition
> to
> >  Miracradasa.  In Mirabalpur you have a wider
> diversity
> >  of nationalities.  Those who's family have lived
> in
> >  Mir for two generations or more and those who are
> >  Mirish worship Miracradasa, but they also worship
> other
> >  Gods, for some it is gods who relate to there
> living,
> >  others it is the God who was from there ancestral
> home
> >  (Like Lucia and others).   
> >  
> >  Miracradasa is the Zeus or Odin or Ra of the
> Mirish
> >  Pantheon but with even more focus.
> 
> A ruling god cannot be too focused or it will lose
> worshipers to those 
> seeking aide in other ways.  How is the worship of
> Miracradasa focused?

When I was talking about focus I was talking about
that most people in Mir worship her.  In refrence that
people don't just pay homage or acknowledge her as the
head of the Mirish Pantheon but a large chunck of
people worship her activly.

She is not just focused on one aspect.  She is the
Goddess of magic, yes,  she is also the the Protector
of Mir, yes, she is also a Goddess of Family and Home.
 Most people outside of Mir think of her as just the
Goddess over Magic though.

She does have a Priesthood who are found in the
Brotherhood of Sorcery.  She does have a temple and/or
a shrine in every village, town, city.

 
> >  The creator is also recognized, though not really
> >  worshiped since he does not call a priesthood.
> >  
> >  The Sorcerers of Mir are also priests.  Most of
> them
> >  are for Miracradasa, but the other deities do
> have
> >  priests who are Sorcerers.  The Archmage is High
> >  Priest of Miracradasa.  So they actually do uses
> there
> >  deities for a little of there powers.  Not all of
> >  their power.  They do uses other sources as well.
> 
> What powers does Miracradasa give to her chosen? 
> Does she ever give powers 
> to non-mages?

Most of her "choosen" as you call them, that would not
really a good word though, do become Mages as a gift
from her. Others do recieve gifts from her and that is
on a individual level.  Usally blessing are in the
nature of helping the family are common.  Thoughs
blesings very though.

Jason

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RulingNations
RulingNations

Thu

Mar 18
2004

03:13Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

Since the religious situation in Celandra does not bear any significant 
resemblance to real world beliefs, I would urge people to stop using the term 
"pantheon" in any discussion of religious belief or organization.  I would suggest 
the term "polytheon" in its place.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Thu

Mar 18
2004

16:26Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

Both words have meaning useful to the discussion (and both are usually
misused).  At least, let us try to use the word we actually mean instead of
what comes to mind quickly.  Pantheism is a worship of all gods or the
belief that "god is everywhere in everything".   Pantheon, generically, is
the gods of a people, taken as a whole.  For purposes of our discussion, a
pantheon would thus entail all gods which a given people are aware of or
acknowledge.  Polytheism is the opposite of monotheism--the belief
in/worship of many gods.  A semantic problem emerges for most people because
pantheism and pantheon do not share the same meaning despite their common
linguistic origin.  Polytheists have pantheons, pantheists do not.
(Monotheists have one true God and typically a pseudo-pantheon of 'false
gods/demons'.)

To give an in game example, the Onagir with their belief in the obeah are
pantheists.  Mir, following Miracradasa as their chosen god from amoung
many, is a polytheist nation.  Since Mir knows of and acknowledges the
worship of Lucia, Lucia (along with Miracradasa et. al.) is part of Mir's
pantheon.  The Eerith espouse the utter sovergienty of the Creator.  If they
dismissed Lucia as a false god, they would be pure monotheists.  As it is,
they believe that Lucia, Miracradasa, et. al. are facets of the Creator and
don't repudiate them.  This makes them soft (or accomodating) Monotheists
with Lucia as part of their pseudo-pantheon.  (Confused?  Studying cultural
mythography is like getting hit in the head with a stick.)

If it helps, the short form is this:  theisms (poly or pan) are beliefs.
Pantheons are lists.

Sorry for being pedantic,
MK


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Cel] [World] Trying It Again


> Since the religious situation in Celandra does not bear any significant
> resemblance to real world beliefs, I would urge people to stop using the
term
> "pantheon" in any discussion of religious belief or organization.  I would
suggest
> the term "polytheon" in its place.
>
> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.

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RulingNations
RulingNations

Sun

Mar 21
2004

17:36Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

In a message dated 3/18/04 9:27:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
dfsolley@comcast.net writes:

>Both words have meaning useful to the discussion (and both are usually
>misused). At least, let us try to use the word we actually mean instead
>of what comes to mind quickly. Pantheism is a worship of all gods

Incorrect.

>or the belief that "God is everywhere in everything".

That's one way of putting it. Another is "Everything is God." Yet
another is, "Any object has as much a spirit as a human." However
pantheists have their own blind spots. Tell one, "I'm talking to the
spirit of the middle third of the distance between those two trees, and
you'll get some strange looks at the least.

>Pantheon, generically, is the gods of a people, taken as a whole.

The gods of a _culture_, not a people.

>For purposes of our discussion, a pantheon would thus entail all gods
>which a given people are aware of or acknowledge.

Precisely the attitude I'm trying to avoid by coining the word
"polytheon." In Celandra people wouldn't find it at all unusual that
Mars is not Ares, but Pele is Brigid (for example). This sort of
situation isn't like anything historical.

To put it another way; using your above definition Celandra only has one
pantheon: all the deities of the dreaming. We need a term which breaks
things up finer than that, which is why I proposed "polytheon."

>Polytheism is the opposite of monotheism--the belief in/worship of many
>gods.

Polytheism and monotheism are not opposites. They can coexist quite
comfortably and in varying degrees within the same religion. The same is
true of Polytheism and Pantheism. Monotheism and Pantheism are the
opposites. They cannot coexist comfortably together.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Mon

Mar 22
2004

03:49Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

(This is actually a backhanded way of apologizing for the fact that, even if
I tried to switch and use your definitions, I'm too old and thickheaded to
do it consistently.  I'd create more confusion rather than less.  Again, my
apologies but I'm going to use words according to their definitions and try
to be clear by context.)

>Pantheism is a worship of all gods
>
> Incorrect.

I'm picking nits now but, for the record:

Pantheism:  2. the worship of all gods.
Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1983

This is significant only in that, because of this, polytheism IS NOT the
opposite of Monotheism.  If a culture believes either (a) all gods are an
aspect of One God (such as the Eerith), or (b) there is only one god
(nuances of omnipresence), then they are both mono- and polytheistic.
Polytheism, by its very definition (Webster again), is the opposite of
Monotheism.

These are tiny matters and I certianly do not wish to incite an agument
about them.  If it helps the rest of the list to agree on alternative
definitions, I say use them and I'll do what I can to keep up.  As another
alternative, we can not use any of the confusing words and take an extra
sentence to be very specific about what we mean.  Frazer used specific
phrases in his work; things like:  known named dieties, known implied
dieties, theoretical pantheon, applied pantheon, etc.  Would it be that hard
to do something similar?  For example, actually just say:  Mir believes
there are multiple gods.  They do not condemn worship of any god which they
would deem 'good'.  Mir knows of the following six gods...Mir also knows
that there are gods for...Of the gods which Mir acknowledges, this one might
be the same as that one from this culture...Even though Mir has knowledge of
all these gods, only the following three actually recieve any kind of
attention...and so on.  I just can't shake the feeling that we are
needlessly complicating the discussion (and I know I'm one of the worst for
doing it).  What are we actually after at the end of the day?  Using a
narrowed definition of Polytheism, we still actually only end up with a list
of gods for the website (per society).  If that's all we need, I don't care
if we call it pantheon, polytheon, or Doug--it's just a list.  If we need
something other than that, then the definitions don't help us anyway.  I
don't have a good answer but I can't shake the feeling that we've
overanalyzed the issue into a bigger matter than it needs to be.

MK

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ArchangelPressRe
Archangel Press, Remote Office

Mon

Mar 22
2004

04:11Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

See!!!  Even in my own words I make a fool of myself by mixing up the words.
In the sentence below, I wrote "polytheism IS NOT" when I ment "pantheism IS
NOT".  They both start with a 'p' and I'm easily confused.  We need better
words.  Theodicy might work but it's an ugly word.  What about Mythos?  The
gods of the XYZsociety mythos is intuitively clear to a newcomer but
distinctive enough to restrict the discussion.  I know, I know, it's still
not perfect but _I_ need to get out of the 'p's because _I_ get confused.

mk

> This is significant only in that, because of this, polytheism IS NOT the
> opposite of Monotheism.  If a culture believes either (a) all gods are an
> aspect of One God (such as the Eerith), or (b) there is only one god
> (nuances of omnipresence), then they are both mono- and polytheistic.
> Polytheism, by its very definition (Webster again), is the opposite of
> Monotheism.


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RulingNations
RulingNations

Tue

Mar 23
2004

13:00Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

In a message dated 3/21/04 8:51:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
dfsolley@comcast.net writes:

>>Pantheism is a worship of all gods
>>
>>Incorrect.
>  
>I'm picking nits now but, for the record:
>  
>Pantheism:  2. the worship of all gods.
>Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1983

True enough. I've never seen it used properly with that definition
though.

[Corrected:]

>This is significant only in that, because of this, pantheism IS NOT the
>opposite of Monotheism.  If a culture believes either (a) all gods are an
>aspect of One God (such as the Eerith), or (b) there is only one god
>(nuances of omnipresence), then they are both mono- and pantheistic.

Websters:

pantheism 1. The doctrine or belief that God is not a personality, but
that all laws, forces, manifestations, etc. of the self-existing
universe are God; the belief that God is everything and everything is
God.

monotheism 1. The doctrine of or belief in the existence of only one
god.

According to Webster's your (a) is polytheism, you (b) is monotheism.

>Polytheism, by its very definition (Webster again), is the opposite of
>Monotheism.

With all due respect to Webster's, antonyms are one of those areas where
they frequently fail.

-----

However, everything above is really irrelevant and I won't discuss it
further. I'm not talking about definitions, I'm talking about attitudes
and assumptions. The FACT is that the situation on Celandra is different
from anything in history or myth. That means the same terms _cannot_
hold the same meanings. Better to coin new terms than use terms which do
not apply.

As an analogy, consider a ringworld (ala Niven). It is a physical
impossibility for such a ringworld to hold onto an atmosphere. Why?
Because a ringworld doesn't have gravity, it has spin, and spin doesn't
"grip." This fact is easily overlooked as long as you refer to the
ringworld as having "gravity" or "pull." Because the situation is
completely different you need to avoid using terms which lead to
improper assumptions.

That is _exactly_ what this group is group is doing when using the all
the terms in this discussion. The thecology (divine ecology) of Celandra
differs from our world's, and, like a ringworld's "gravity" and a world's
_gravity_, the same term does not mean the same thing.

>As another alternative, we can not use any of the confusing words and
>take an extra sentence to be very specific about what we mean. Frazer
>used specific phrases in his work; things like: known named deities,
>known implied deities, theoretical pantheon, applied pantheon, etc.
>Would it be that hard >to do something similar?

Unfortunately this doesn't resolve the issue of people using the terms
inappropriately, which is what I'm trying to address.

[snip]

>I just can't shake the feeling that we are needlessly complicating the
>discussion (and I know I'm one of the worst for doing it).

The discussion is being complicated because people are bringing up
issues which have nothing to do with the point I'm looking at.

>What are we actually after at the end of the day?

A pattern of religious belief which makes sense within the existing
structure of Celandra.

This may be part of the problem. I don't really _care_ what the beliefs
in Mir, or any other individual area are. Exquaestio has to deal with
religion over an extremely large area and so I need to understand
religion over a very large area. As it currently exists the pattern
makes no sense.

>Using a narrowed definition of Polytheism, we still actually only end
>up with a list of gods for the website (per society). If that's all we
>need, I don't care if we call it pantheon, polytheon, or Doug--it's
>just a list. If we need something other than that, then the definitions
>don't help us anyway.

_Existing_ definitions won't help us, which is why I suggested coining
new terms to get around the assumptions inherent in the existing terms.

>I don't have a good answer but I can't shake the feeling that we've
>overanalyzed the issue into a bigger matter than it needs to be.

I disagree.

We haven't "overanalyzed the issue" because no one besides me has even
touched "the issue" in the first place.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JasonHeaps
Jason Heaps

Tue

Mar 23
2004

17:58Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

I hope this help.  It is not ment to pick on anyone so
sorry if you think it does.

I have to agree with Keaton.  Let us not uses any
terms at all.  Let us simple describe what we want
instead of using terms, after all writing skills is
something we are supposed to be working on.

Also people look at things diffrently, and two people
may agree on a defenition but that does not mean they
see it the same way.  So we will never really be able
to come to an agreement on terms.  As we can see from
using old terms.  Besides even if we make new terms
people will still disagree on there meaning.  Again 
people may agree on a definition but the meaning or
uses of that deffiniton may be worlds apart, and that
will not change by makeing some new ones.

Besides having onced GMed this game I can tell you
there are enough new terms in the game that most new
players take a while to understand the once that are
already there.  So inventing new terms would not help
anyone, especially new terms that relate to a subject
most will have not familiarity in real life.

If someone is explaing something and uses a term that
you "think" they used out of context ask them to
explain in the long writen out version.  That also
helps them improve there writing skills (I am talking
a lot about my self here.)

I hope that I have helped with the issue, I am
guessing it was makeing new terms.  If not, a clear
stament on what it is, since I am missing what the
real point is, would be helpful

Jason Heaps


PS: I do have to disagree on your statement that the
religions of celandra bear no resblance to mythology
or history on this world.  I am not going to take time
to explain were I see similarities here. :)

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RaFry
Robert Fry

Tue

Mar 23
2004

21:38Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again, clarification

My web-based emailer doesn't handle replies very well. However, I wanted to respond to a couple of points that struck me about the last message:

There may not *be* a single way to view deity on Celandra. It has attracted beings from all over the Dreaming, each of whom not only bring their own viewpoints but also their very own physical laws. For some regions, God *is* in everything, and one can be granted a measure of authority over it all. In other areas, Matter is simply a distraction which confuses living creatures, and the Gods' focus is the energy of souls and will; they gain some measure of benefit from worship and return some Authority to their priests. In other areas, Authority works by much more arcane means and Mirrish Poly(or-whatever-)theist beliefs function poorly at best. A single faith trying to cover a large area will discover that truths /aren't/ and useful knowledges in one area are wholly irrelevant in others. The beliefs and motivations of the population in that area are applied after the changing nature of reality, and this makes religious perspectives appear to be a real patchwork from 'above'.

(Of course, this could all be entirely false, too, but it might help explain some of the contradictions y'all are fighting).

I do understand your frustration, Jefferson. I often find myself trying to explain rather arcane bits of code (I'm a programmer) to non-technical people. When they appear most unwilling to address 'important' issues, I often find I need to change what I'm asking before they can understand. Their own priorities get in the way of their understanding my concerns.

Bob

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RulingNations
RulingNations

Sun

Mar 21
2004

17:36Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

In a message dated 3/9/04 8:47:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
RulingNations@aol.com writes:

>Since people don't care for my attempts at theology, what about the
>following:

[snipped]

So, judging by the fact that there haven't been any negative comments can I 
assume that this post works for people?

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JasonHeaps
Jason Heaps

Sun

Mar 21
2004

23:44Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/9/04 8:47:19 PM Mountain
> Standard Time, 
> RulingNations@aol.com writes:
> 
> >Since people don't care for my attempts at
> theology, what about the
> >following:
> 
> [snipped]
> 
> So, judging by the fact that there haven't been any
> negative comments can I 
> assume that this post works for people?

>Religiously it became important not to unite the
>worship of different deities. Cults and priesthoods
>became very separated and a polite disinterest in
>differing religious practices became a tradition
>secrecy and division.

Mir does unit worship of different deities.  True they
do not unit the worship all the time but worshiping
multiply Gods in Mir, and the Priesthoods are not
separate in Mir The different priest of different
Gods, while they have individual priesthoods, are
found in the Brotherhood of Sorcery.

>Magic was also affected. Group magic, never common,
>was questioned and faded into oblivion. The voluntary
>use of non-mages as supporters in magic was
>anathematized.

What is your definition of Group magic.  Under my
definition Mir practices it all the time.  Also Mir
uses the Librarians and the Archivist of Mirabalpur,
who are not mages,  in many magical castings.  The
current uses of the Archivist and Librarians in the
study of the Obeah, or the opening of the Dreaming,
the most common being the wards placed on the hidden
vaults of the Library and Archives.

Jason


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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Mon

Mar 22
2004

20:52Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

--- Jason Heaps  wrote:
> --- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> > In a message dated 3/9/04 8:47:19 PM Mountain
> > Standard Time, 
> > RulingNations@aol.com writes:
> > 
> > >Since people don't care for my attempts at
> > theology, what about the
> > >following:
> > 
> > [snipped]
> > 
> > So, judging by the fact that there haven't been any
> > negative comments can I 
> > assume that this post works for people?
> 
> >Religiously it became important not to unite the
> >worship of different deities. Cults and priesthoods
> >became very separated and a polite disinterest in
> >differing religious practices became a tradition
> >secrecy and division.
> 
> Mir does unit worship of different deities.  True they
> do not unit the worship all the time but worshiping
> multiply Gods in Mir, and the Priesthoods are not
> separate in Mir The different priest of different
> Gods, while they have individual priesthoods, are
> found in the Brotherhood of Sorcery.
> 
> >Magic was also affected. Group magic, never common,
> >was questioned and faded into oblivion. The voluntary
> >use of non-mages as supporters in magic was
> >anathematized.
> 
> What is your definition of Group magic.  Under my
> definition Mir practices it all the time.  Also Mir
> uses the Librarians and the Archivist of Mirabalpur,
> who are not mages,  in many magical castings.  The
> current uses of the Archivist and Librarians in the
> study of the Obeah, or the opening of the Dreaming,
> the most common being the wards placed on the hidden
> vaults of the Library and Archives.

Perhaps a possible explanation could be that Group Magic faded in the
rest of Qaiyore *because* it was associated with Mir. That is, back
when the Mystical Realm of Mir encompassed almost the entire continent,
Group Magic was one of the key tools(with the Dragons and the Flying
City) the Mir used to maintain their control over their empire. Because
of this past history, that form of magical practice has been negatively
perceived by many of the MidSea nations.

Andrew

> Jason
> 
> 
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RulingNations
RulingNations

Tue

Mar 23
2004

13:00Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

In a message dated 3/21/04 4:45:07 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
tosa_mir@yahoo.com writes:

>  What is your definition of Group magic?

Group magic is when two or more magically talented individuals join together 
to produce an effect which is greater than the sum of what they could produce 
individually.  For example, two mages, who could each control weather in a one 
mile radius, combine to control weather in a two mile radius.

>  Under my
>  definition Mir practices it all the time.  Also Mir
>  uses the Librarians and the Archivist of Mirabalpur,
>  who are not mages,  in many magical castings.  The
>  current uses of the Archivist and Librarians in the
>  study of the Obeah, or the opening of the Dreaming,
>  the most common being the wards placed on the hidden
>  vaults of the Library and Archives.

The espiri can accept Authority from quaestae to increase the power of their 
own spells.  In the example above, for instance, an espiri might use ten 
quaestae instead of a single additional mage.  This may, of course, be simply an 
aspect of their granted Authority, but I think its more likely a natural but 
generally undeveloped aspect of magic in general.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/


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JasonHeaps
Jason Heaps

Tue

Mar 23
2004

18:07Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/21/04 4:45:07 PM Mountain
> Standard Time, 
> tosa_mir@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> >  What is your definition of Group magic?
> 
> Group magic is when two or more magically talented
> individuals join together 
> to produce an effect which is greater than the sum
> of what they could produce 
> individually.  For example, two mages, who could
> each control weather in a one 
> mile radius, combine to control weather in a two
> mile radius.

I agree.  That is my deffinition as well.  Mir does
group magic on a regular bases.

Jason Heaps


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RulingNations
RulingNations

Sun

Apr 4
2004

11:59Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

In a message dated 3/23/04 11:07:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
tosa_mir@yahoo.com writes:

>  I agree.  That is my definition as well.  Mir does
>  group magic on a regular bases.

Aside from the coteries, what things does Mir use group magic for?

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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JasonHeaps
Jason Heaps

Thu

Apr 8
2004

23:00Z

[Cel] [World] Trying It Again

--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/23/04 11:07:35 AM Mountain
> Standard Time, 
> tosa_mir@yahoo.com writes:
> 
> >  I agree.  That is my definition as well.  Mir
> does
> >  group magic on a regular bases.
> 
> Aside from the coteries, what things does Mir use
> group magic for?

Wards, Spells with a large effect area.  Or just
spells that take a lot of energy.  Opening the Gateway
into the dreaming required group magic, Open the
eerith prision.  Stuff along that nature and also
other spells that aren't as big.  

Jason Heaps


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