With school out for the summer, I have time on my hands. So, I decided today that I would use the map of Qaiyore to figure out just how big these societies really are, and how many people should actually be living in them, given a reasonable population density. Translated, I've spent at least eight hours counting pixels. I used the 1428 .gif map of Qaiyore on the old site. It turns out, convieniently, that one pixel equals a 5 mile by 5 mile square. Using this fact, I was able to calculate land area for most of the societies. I haven't done the Tana, yet, nor have the Videssians, the Free Cities, or the various nomads been figured in. Once I get my numbers translated out of my 7-year-old spreadsheet program into something that I know everyone's PC can read, I'll put it up on the website. For now, here's some trivia: + Mir, counting both the Isle of Celamyr and the occupied portion of Tirmar, has an area of ~51,665 sq.mi. The Isle itself is 17,525 sq.mi. in area, and assuming a maximum medieval population density(120 pop/sq.mi.), the Isle has 2.1 million inhabitants, almost exactly the figure given on the old website. Tirmar adds 34,140 sq.mi. and an additional 2.5 million people. + On the other hand, according to its determinants page on the old website, Aryisa occupies 90,000 sq.mi. and has a population of 120,000. Aryisa's actual area is 16,000 sq.mi., and its population is probably closer to 1 million than to 100,000. + Cedonia is, hands down, the largest country on the MidSea, with an area of 937,125 sq.mi. Assuming an average population density of about 80 people per square mile(due to the effect of invasion followed by civil war), Cedonia has a population of 74.9 million. The next largest MidSea nation is Tanimbar, with 241,250 sq.mi. of land and a probable population of 21.7 million. + However, Cedonia pales in comparison to Torphan. While the exact borders and territory of Torphan are unknown, an educated guess, based on the positions of natural barriers, can be made. Conservatively, Torphan has an area of around 2.31 million sq.mi., and a population of some 254.1 million. That's more than the total population of all the MidSea countries combined. + Finally, the smallest mapped country on Qaiyore is the Razanian Kingdom of Sayn, at 500 square miles and a population of 45,000 to 50,000. There are a couple other things I want to do with these numbers, including figuring the proportions of urban & rural population. Anyway, like I said, once I put the numbers into a presentable form, I'll upload them. Andrew __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 5/17/04 12:04:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: >Well, this is a difficult question to answer, since I feel that the >population given on the website is waaaaay too low. I've checked out >this nifty website, however, Medieval Demographics Made Easy >(http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm), and typically, there would be one >clergyman to every 40 people, and one priest per 25-30 clergymen. >Clergymen are those who are members of religious orders, but aren't >ordained priests. You should note that the numbers on that page are based on the French plains during population highpoint which followed the Great Plague. Not only was this the most religious period of history I can find, but the population density was higher than any other pre-industrial culture outside the Chinese Yellow River valley. In a message dated 5/19/04 1:05:04 AM Mountain Daylight Time, andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: >I used the 1428 .gif map of Qaiyore on the old site. It turns out, >conveniently, that one pixel equals a 5 mile by 5 mile square. Using >this fact, I was able to calculate land area for most of the societies. >I haven't done the Tana, yet, nor have the Videssians, the Free Cities, >or the various nomads been figured in. What are you using as a population density? To quote from an earlier posting of mine: >references put population density from 2 per square mile (low >production borderlands after Norman invasion) to 150 per square mile >(developed French countryside). Based on these numbers a good density >for the Qaiyore Midsea region would be 30 per square mile or 750 per >pixel, mainly concentrated in coastlands and river valleys. Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
--- RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/17/04 12:04:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > In a message dated 5/19/04 1:05:04 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > > >I used the 1428 .gif map of Qaiyore on the old site. It turns out, > >conveniently, that one pixel equals a 5 mile by 5 mile square. Using > >this fact, I was able to calculate land area for most of the > societies. > >I haven't done the Tana, yet, nor have the Videssians, the Free > Cities, > >or the various nomads been figured in. > > What are you using as a population density? I used different population densities for each country, although, after looking more closely at the old website, some numbers will need tweaking. I assigned a density of 80 per square mile to Cedonia, representing the aftereffects of invasion and civil war, and also allowing for the fact that while the Imperial River valley, Cedonian Tirmar, and the Gulf of Gomel coast regions are densely populated, Selaria has a much lower population density. In the case of Mir, I calculated the Isle of Celamyr and Mirrish-occupied Tirmar separately. Mirrish Tirmar was assigned a density of 75 per square mile, as it was a major battleground in the Sinari War. The Isle of Celamyr was assigned a density of 120 per square mile, the maximum I used, to allow for the fact that the island has been continuously inhabited for millenia, is inhabited by powerful mages with (presumably) access to agricultural magic, and has never been invaded(at least, not in the last thousand years or so). In general, I used population densities in a range from 50 to 120 per square mile, with a mean of 87.64. Taking only Midsea countries, the average is 92.50. These are probably high; as I said, my reexamination of the website suggested that I hadn't adequately allowed for climates and other factors. For example, Tanimbar is described as having a climate like Scotland or Sweden, and is still partially occupied by goblins. On the other hand, I also needed to account for the effect of magic on agriculture. While I have put up my preliminary figures on the Website, I'm going to be revising them. I think that I'll do a range of possible populations rather than a single number, populations for each country at 30, 60, 90, and 120 people per square mile, and then we can argue about which is most nearly correct. > To quote from an earlier posting of mine: > > >references put population density from 2 per square mile (low > >production borderlands after Norman invasion) to 150 per square mile > >(developed French countryside). Based on these numbers a good > density > >for the Qaiyore Midsea region would be 30 per square mile or 750 per > >pixel, mainly concentrated in coastlands and river valleys. 30 per as an average for the region seems low, given length of settlement, access to agricultural magic, general technological development, etc. Still, I suppose if you include the v. sparsely populated north coast of the MidSea, that would drop the average. When I did my calculations, I left out all the Tribal areas, and the Free Cities region. I may go back and count their pixels. Andrew > Jefferson (Exquaestio) > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew, Some amazing work, considering how time consuming it must have been. Kaeir though I suspect has a larger population, given its recent annexation of northern Tirmar, than 96K. ;) Ibrahim -----Original Message----- From: bounces@phoenyx.net [mailto:bounces@phoenyx.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Janssen Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:19 AM To: celandra@phoenyx.net Subject: Re: [Cel] [World] Land Area, Population Density, Scope --- RulingNations@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/17/04 12:04:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > In a message dated 5/19/04 1:05:04 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > > >I used the 1428 .gif map of Qaiyore on the old site. It turns out, > >conveniently, that one pixel equals a 5 mile by 5 mile square. Using > >this fact, I was able to calculate land area for most of the > societies. > >I haven't done the Tana, yet, nor have the Videssians, the Free > Cities, > >or the various nomads been figured in. > > What are you using as a population density? I used different population densities for each country, although, after looking more closely at the old website, some numbers will need tweaking. I assigned a density of 80 per square mile to Cedonia, representing the aftereffects of invasion and civil war, and also allowing for the fact that while the Imperial River valley, Cedonian Tirmar, and the Gulf of Gomel coast regions are densely populated, Selaria has a much lower population density. In the case of Mir, I calculated the Isle of Celamyr and Mirrish-occupied Tirmar separately. Mirrish Tirmar was assigned a density of 75 per square mile, as it was a major battleground in the Sinari War. The Isle of Celamyr was assigned a density of 120 per square mile, the maximum I used, to allow for the fact that the island has been continuously inhabited for millenia, is inhabited by powerful mages with (presumably) access to agricultural magic, and has never been invaded(at least, not in the last thousand years or so). In general, I used population densities in a range from 50 to 120 per square mile, with a mean of 87.64. Taking only Midsea countries, the average is 92.50. These are probably high; as I said, my reexamination of the website suggested that I hadn't adequately allowed for climates and other factors. For example, Tanimbar is described as having a climate like Scotland or Sweden, and is still partially occupied by goblins. On the other hand, I also needed to account for the effect of magic on agriculture. While I have put up my preliminary figures on the Website, I'm going to be revising them. I think that I'll do a range of possible populations rather than a single number, populations for each country at 30, 60, 90, and 120 people per square mile, and then we can argue about which is most nearly correct. > To quote from an earlier posting of mine: > > >references put population density from 2 per square mile (low > >production borderlands after Norman invasion) to 150 per square mile > >(developed French countryside). Based on these numbers a good > density > >for the Qaiyore Midsea region would be 30 per square mile or 750 per > >pixel, mainly concentrated in coastlands and river valleys. 30 per as an average for the region seems low, given length of settlement, access to agricultural magic, general technological development, etc. Still, I suppose if you include the v. sparsely populated north coast of the MidSea, that would drop the average. When I did my calculations, I left out all the Tribal areas, and the Free Cities region. I may go back and count their pixels. Andrew > Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer ================================ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
