Here's some more Cedonian religion stuff, inspired in part by the recent thinking I've been doing about travel and communication. The Order of Cedon ---------------------- The god Cedon is the patron deity of the Cedonian Empire. He is not the chief deity of the Cedonian Pantheon, but he stands below only Coron and Lucia. Cedon is often described as the god of merchants, but that statement does not adequately describe Cedon or his priesthood. Cedon has dominion over merchants and traders, weights and measures, roads and rivers, messengers, wealth in general, and coinage in particular. Cedon protects those who travel, especially those who travel on business or as couriers. His wrath is said to fall upon those who try to cheat their customers or business partners; upon embezzlers and counterfeiters; and upon those who would prevent free passage upon the roads and rivers. As a reflection of this, the Order of Cedon maintains Cedonia's standard units of length, mass, and volume; is responsible for maintaining the quality of the coinage; sets accounting standards for Cedonian businesses; and work with the Lucians and the civil authorities in combating fraud of all sorts. The Lucians can determine if someone is lying or not, but the Cedonites know who should be questioned, and what should be asked. The Order provides blessings for those about to travel, and will also provide blessings for new business ventures upon request. The Order of Cedon also runs what is known to this day as the Imperial Postal Service. The Old Cedonian Empire engaged in constant road-building, often improving upon roads built during the Mystic Realm of Mir. Every 25 miles or so on the main roads, the Order of Cedon established and maintained postal way-stations to provide food, lodging, and remounts for Imperial Couriers. The Cedonites only provided support services; the Imperial Couriers were and are almost always Selarians who worship King Marmdal in his aspect of the Lord of Horses. The Imperial Postal Service still exists and functions, even outside of Cedonia; when the Old Empire fell, the Order was making enough money from postal rates to continue operations. Despite the name, the IPS is an independent entity, beholden to no nation or government. Despite the expense of sending messages by the IPS courier system, people use it because of the Order's guarantee that no message sent by the IPS will ever be intercepted or read by anyone other than the intended recipient. The horses and riders of the Service are blessed by both Cedon and Marmdal. The Order is also famous for its work with birds as messengers. Using magical enhancement, the Cedonites have bred carrier pigeons and ravens that can be used to carry messages between two points. The pigeons can be used to send messages to any two fixed points, or one-way from a ship to a point on land. The ravens can be sent to seek out a particular person and deliver a verbal message. The pigeons are available for use by members of the public who can afford the Order's prices; the ravens are exclusively used for communications within the Cedonian Church. Generally speaking, the pigeons are used instead of the IPS when speed is at a premium. The IPS riders average 10 to 15 mph (divine blessing, the right breed of horse, and Selarian skill), whereas the carrier pigeons travel at about 25 to 30 mph. IPS couriers can get messages from Thalcedon to Caladyn in under 48 hours if they push their mounts; a carrier pigeon can take a single message the same distance in 20 hours, on average. About 200 years ago, the Order of Cedon did attempt to develop to develop a means of telepathic long distance communication. The project was a failure. After three successive project chiefs suddenly developed an obsessive interest in perfecting a means of extracting sunshine from oranges, the Archpriest of Cedon had a dream-vision of Cedon, who made it very clear that "there are things man was not meant to meddle with" and that telepathic transmission of messages was one of those things. Interestingly, the gods did not seem to have a problem with limited receptive telepathy, of the sort used by Lucian truthsayers. Why this is the case is a matter on which the Cedonian gods remain stubbornly silent. Andrew Janssen ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 7/13/04 1:51:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time, andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > As a reflection of this, the Order of Cedon maintains Cedonia's standard > units of length, mass, and volume; is responsible for maintaining the > quality of the coinage; sets accounting standards for Cedonian > businesses; and work with the Lucians and the civil authorities in > combating fraud of all sorts. Do the Cedonians (or any other society) have standards for longitude (a prime meridian) or elevation (exactly where is "sea level")? Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
RulingNations@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/13/04 1:51:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time, >andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > > > >> As a reflection of this, the Order of Cedon maintains Cedonia's standard >> units of length, mass, and volume; is responsible for maintaining the >> quality of the coinage; sets accounting standards for Cedonian >> businesses; and work with the Lucians and the civil authorities in >> combating fraud of all sorts. >> >> > >Do the Cedonians (or any other society) have standards for longitude (a prime >meridian) or elevation (exactly where is "sea level")? > > > Cedonians use the meridian running through Thacedon as their prime meridian, but I would imagine that other countries have their own standard. For instance, Mir presumably uses the meridian that runs through Mirabalpur as their prime meridian. Historically here on Earth it wasn't until the 18th or 19th Century(I think) that the Greenwich meridian became universally accepted as *the* Prime Meridian. Prior to that point, the English used the Greenwich meridian, the French used the Paris meridian, and so on. As far as elevation goes, that's trickier. Cedonia's only coastline is on the MidSea, so they base their standard sea level from the highest high tide level at Thalcedon. They have the surveying equipment necessary to calculate elevations, but by our standards, it's fairly crude. Still, it's accurate enough for their needs. Andrew >Jefferson (Exquaestio) >http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 7/13/04 9:11:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > Cedonians use the meridian running through Thacedon as their prime > meridian, but I would imagine that other countries have their own > standard. For instance, Mir presumably uses the meridian that runs > through Mirabalpur as their prime meridian. Historically here on Earth > it wasn't until the 18th or 19th Century (I think) that the Greenwich > meridian became universally accepted as *the* Prime Meridian. 20th century actually. England adopted the metric system in exchange for France adopting the Greenwich Prime Meridian. However, even those Prime Meridians weren't defined until the 17th century, which is a bit ahead of Qaiyore's advancement. (Unlike certain other anachronisms though, this is one which might have developed at any time for a variety of reasons.) > Prior to > that point, the English used the Greenwich meridian, the French used the > Paris meridian, and so on. > > As far as elevation goes, that's trickier. Cedonia's only coastline is > on the MidSea, so they base their standard sea level from the highest > high tide level at Thalcedon. They have the surveying equipment > necessary to calculate elevations, but by our standards, it's fairly > crude. Still, it's accurate enough for their needs. Hmmm. So there are probably markers in Mirabalpur for both the Prime Meridian and base elevation. I wonder if Cormenaera has them as well? (Exquaestio is active in Mirabalpur and Cormenaera, but not in Thalcedon.) This is important because I was looking at some future developments for Exquaestio and it turns out for some things I'd like to do they need to define latitude, longitude, and elevation _down to the centimeter_. Latitude and longitude are no big deal, but elevation is giving me a headache. Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
RulingNations@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/13/04 9:11:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, >andrewdj54701@yahoo.com writes: > > >>> Prior to >> that point, the English used the Greenwich meridian, the French used the >> Paris meridian, and so on. >> >> As far as elevation goes, that's trickier. Cedonia's only coastline is >> on the MidSea, so they base their standard sea level from the highest >> high tide level at Thalcedon. They have the surveying equipment >> necessary to calculate elevations, but by our standards, it's fairly >> crude. Still, it's accurate enough for their needs. >> >> > >Hmmm. So there are probably markers in Mirabalpur for both the Prime Meridian >and base elevation. I wonder if Cormenaera has them as well? (Exquaestio is >active in Mirabalpur and Cormenaera, but not in Thalcedon.) This is >important because I was looking at some future developments for Exquaestio and it >turns out for some things I'd like to do they need to define latitude, longitude, >and elevation _down to the centimeter_. Latitude and longitude are no big >deal, but elevation is giving me a headache. > > > Hum. Well, Mirabalpur probably has an elevation marker, since knowing exactly where you are can be very useful to mages. They probably used both normal surveying instuments and magic to plot their elevation, so the marker is likely to be more accurate than in Thalcedon. Cormenaera may have elevation and latitude/longitude markers, but they probably date back to the Old Cedonian Empire, and the longitude and elevation measurements probably aren't accurate enough for your needs. Given that the current level of technology does not, as far as I know, allow for the construction of chronometers or geared clocks in general, accurate measurement of longitude would require a rather specialized mage. Since Cormenaera's longitude would be derived from Thalcedon's, and Thalcedon is around 1600 miles away, the error in longitude is probably a lot more than a centimeter. Andrew >Jefferson (Exquaestio) >http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Regarding elevation, that can be hard to measure. What are you measuring? Mean sea level is 15 miles further from the center of the Earth at the Equator than at the poles (I may be off by a factor of two here, in the case of Earth), and depending on geometry, that could be well under water at high tide. I'm assuming Celandra knows the world to be round, but that's probably not even universal. (And given magick, it may not even be universally true!) If you measure by air pressure, then things like the height of mountains changes depending on weather and time of day. Has Celandra had its Euclid? If not, using triangles to measure the height of any feature is not guaranteed to be known. On the other hand, magic generally talks of relations between points of power. Those can even move around (e.g. the stars), so perhaps a magickal positioning system would be expressed in terms of fixed magical reference points and mathematically straight lines. Bob This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au Unknown MIME type: null ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
rafry@ozemail.com.au wrote: >Regarding elevation, that can be hard to measure. What are you measuring? Mean sea level is 15 miles further from the center of the Earth at the Equator than at the poles (I may be off by a factor of two here, in the case of Earth), and depending on geometry, that could be well under water at high tide. I'm assuming Celandra knows the world to be round, but that's probably not even universal. (And given magick, it may not even be universally true!) > > > In Cedonia's case, an early Emperor decreed the sea-level mark by fiat. He pointed to a spot on the beach and said, measure everything relative to that spot. Ahh, the good old days. ;) >If you measure by air pressure, then things like the height of mountains changes depending on weather and time of day. Has Celandra had its Euclid? If not, using triangles to measure the height of any feature is not guaranteed to be known. > > > While I don't think it's ever been explicitly stated, I'd say that the civilized nations around the MidSea do know about geometry and trigonometry. Mir and Cedonia, definitely, and the countries that were once part of Cedonia. Torphan probably knows about trig, but it's impossible to be sure about Torphan. Andrew >On the other hand, magic generally talks of relations between points of power. Those can even move around (e.g. the stars), so perhaps a magickal positioning system would be expressed in terms of fixed magical reference points and mathematically straight lines. > > Bob > >This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > >Unknown MIME type: null > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Yeah, but once again, what's height above sea level? If I go from Mir to the South Pole, sea level is a different distance from the center of the planet. Since the world is *not* a perfect sphere, again, what do you call sea level when you've moved to a different latitude? How do I tell that (for example) the mountains of Amotrall are 10,000 units tall while those of Mir are 10,005? You can't use Trigonometry to measure height if you don't have an identical base to measure /from/! Andrew Janssen wrote: > rafry@ozemail.com.au wrote: > > >>Regarding elevation, that can be hard to measure. What are you measuring? Mean sea level is 15 miles further from the center of the Earth at the Equator than at the poles (I may be off by a factor of two here, in the case of Earth), and depending on geometry, that could be well under water at high tide. I'm assuming Celandra knows the world to be round, but that's probably not even universal. (And given magick, it may not even be universally true!) >> >> >> > > In Cedonia's case, an early Emperor decreed the sea-level mark by fiat. > He pointed to a spot on the beach and said, measure everything relative > to that spot. Ahh, the good old days. ;) > > >>If you measure by air pressure, then things like the height of mountains changes depending on weather and time of day. Has Celandra had its Euclid? If not, using triangles to measure the height of any feature is not guaranteed to be known. >> This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
rafry@ozemail.com.au wrote: >Yeah, but once again, what's height above sea level? If I go from Mir to the South Pole, sea level is a different distance from the center of the planet. Since the world is *not* a perfect sphere, again, what do you call sea level when you've moved to a different latitude? How do I tell that (for example) the mountains of Amotrall are 10,000 units tall while those of Mir are 10,005? You can't use Trigonometry to measure height if you don't have an identical base to measure /from/! > > > How do we know that Celandra's not a perfect sphere? In any event, I can't see as it really matters. The Cedonians are more concerned about relative than absolute measurements anyway. When they try to determine elevations, it's usually for the purpose of planning the route of an aqueduct, where the important thing is the difference in elevation between two points, not the actual elevation. Andrew >Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>rafry@ozemail.com.au wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>Regarding elevation, that can be hard to measure. What are you measuring? Mean sea level is 15 miles further from the center of the Earth at the Equator than at the poles (I may be off by a factor of two here, in the case of Earth), and depending on geometry, that could be well under water at high tide. I'm assuming Celandra knows the world to be round, but that's probably not even universal. (And given magick, it may not even be universally true!) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>In Cedonia's case, an early Emperor decreed the sea-level mark by fiat. >>He pointed to a spot on the beach and said, measure everything relative >>to that spot. Ahh, the good old days. ;) >> >> >> >> >>>If you measure by air pressure, then things like the height of mountains changes depending on weather and time of day. Has Celandra had its Euclid? If not, using triangles to measure the height of any feature is not guaranteed to be known. >>> >>> >>> > >This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 7/14/04 4:21:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rafry@ozemail.com.au writes: > Regarding elevation, that can be hard to measure. What are you measuring? > Mean sea level is 15 miles further from the center of the Earth at the > Equator than at the poles (I may be off by a factor of two here, in the case > of Earth), and depending on geometry, that could be well under water at high > tide. I'm assuming Celandra knows the world to be round, but that's probably > not even universal. (And given magick, it may not even be universally true!) Well, Exquaestio coordinates are based on the assumption that the world is a perfect sphere, and it won't bother them at all if/when elevations at the equator average 7 miles higher at the equator than in the MidSea. With rites for measurement and calculation they can be as accurate as they want, until a measurement needs to cross a sea expanse. (Of course very few are able to use the calculation rites for trig. functions, but I assumed those calculations were readily available from the Library in Mirabalpur, so at least its possible.) To derive the elevation information they need across an expanse of sea, they require simultaneous measurements of the distance to a particular point on the greater moon's surface. With a scholastics sophistication of Fair (0), they're probably up for it, but its going to take a while to get decent measurements. Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/Exq_Main.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
-----Original Message----- From: bounces@phoenyx.net [mailto:bounces@phoenyx.net] On Behalf Of RulingNations@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:22 AM To: celandra@phoenyx.net Subject: Re: [Cel] [World] More Cedonian Religion In a message dated 7/14/04 4:21:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rafry@ozemail.com.au writes: > Regarding elevation, that can be hard to measure. What are you > measuring? > Mean sea level is 15 miles further from the center of the Earth at the > Equator than at the poles (I may be off by a factor of two here, in the case > of Earth), and depending on geometry, that could be well under water > at high > tide. I'm assuming Celandra knows the world to be round, but that's probably > not even universal. (And given magick, it may not even be universally > true!) Well, Exquaestio coordinates are based on the assumption that the world is a perfect sphere, and it won't bother them at all if/when elevations at the equator average 7 miles higher at the equator than in the MidSea. --- Is the world a sphere? Or flat? Or like something akin to Moorcock's world of Elric, where the world ends at the receeding borders of chaos? Given the role of the Dreaming in Qaiyore, do the same physical laws apply as on Earth? Ibrahim ================================ Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer ================================ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
In a message dated 7/15/04 8:47:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time, ibrahim@aitacademy.edu.sg writes: > Is the world a sphere? Or flat? Or like something akin to Moorcock's > world of Elric, where the world ends at the receding borders of chaos? > > Given the role of the Dreaming in Qaiyore, do the same physical laws > apply as on Earth? It has been established that the world is (roughly) a sphere of essentially the same nature as Earth. Further, the situation on Qaiyore out to the orbit of the moons is basically the same as here. Beyond that I think we can assume that some interesting things are going on since the role of astronomy in Babylon, China, Tenocha, and others is not duplicated in any way on Qaiyore. Since the telescope or similar magic hasn't been developed the nature of the physical world beyond the moons hasn't been important to me. We know that _apparantly_ the physical laws are the same as ours. Personally, I think that differences are eventually going to appear, but we won't know what they are until someone gets a mythic success or failure on a research action. (Note the current absence of the scientific method however, which means that the current societies don't really know how to ask the right questions.) Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ PS If you have 16+ Fudge points to spare you can research a change in physics. I have some ideas . . . ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
