I've been thinking for some time now about doing a strategic action to set up a network of heliographs in Cedonia. The motivation is that the ability of any government to control territory is largely limited by the speed of communications. The current Imperial Postal Service dispatch riders average about 10 mph, which means the cycle time for a message & reply between Thalsedon and the southern border forts is a bit more than 4.5 days. A heliograph system like the one used by the Byzantine Empire would cut that cycle time down to 1hr, 50min. As far as I can tell, the basic technology for such a system exists on Qaiyore; it's a question of scaling up, and investment in time, manpower, and money. Indeed, given the scale of the old Cedonian Empire, one might argue that a heliograph system would be a reestablishment of a lost technology. So, I just kind of floating this idea to see what you all think about it, if you have any thoughts or ideas (like how long it might take to build, etc.) Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
A reasonable point. Any centre of commerce would generate a level of cultural and intellectual sophistication that could lead to such developments. The Greek city-states, and Renaissance Italy city-states, and later Venice, would be examples of this. Cedonia could more readily organise such a system given its resources, but the cost would be higher given its size. Such a development though would be copied by neighbouring states who possessed a similar technology level fairly quickly though. Ibrahim > -----Original Message----- > From: bounces@phoenyx.net [mailto:bounces@phoenyx.net] On Behalf Of Andrew > Janssen > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:21 PM > To: celandra@phoenyx.net > Subject: [Cel] A bright idea? > > I've been thinking for some time now about doing a strategic action to > set up a network of heliographs in Cedonia. The motivation is that the > ability of any government to control territory is largely limited by the > speed of communications. > > The current Imperial Postal Service dispatch riders average about 10 > mph, which means the cycle time for a message & reply between Thalsedon > and the southern border forts is a bit more than 4.5 days. A heliograph > system like the one used by the Byzantine Empire would cut that cycle > time down to 1hr, 50min. > > As far as I can tell, the basic technology for such a system exists on > Qaiyore; it's a question of scaling up, and investment in time, > manpower, and money. Indeed, given the scale of the old Cedonian Empire, > one might argue that a heliograph system would be a reestablishment of a > lost technology. > > So, I just kind of floating this idea to see what you all think about > it, if you have any thoughts or ideas (like how long it might take to > build, etc.) > > Andrew > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. ================================ Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer ================================ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Kaeir might find such a system useful; the Islands and Tirmaeir are close enough to be linked by such a system. As a rule of thumb, according to a website about heliographs that I found, every inch of mirror diameter gives you ten miles of range. A ten-inch mirror would be large enough to signal across the channels separating the islands from each other and the mainland. Andrew Ibrahim wrote: > A reasonable point. Any centre of commerce would generate a level of > cultural and intellectual sophistication that could lead to such > developments. The Greek city-states, and Renaissance Italy city-states, and > later Venice, would be examples of this. > > Cedonia could more readily organise such a system given its resources, but > the cost would be higher given its size. Such a development though would be > copied by neighbouring states who possessed a similar technology level > fairly quickly though. > > Ibrahim > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: bounces@phoenyx.net [mailto:bounces@phoenyx.net] On Behalf Of Andrew >>Janssen >>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:21 PM >>To: celandra@phoenyx.net >>Subject: [Cel] A bright idea? >> >>I've been thinking for some time now about doing a strategic action to >>set up a network of heliographs in Cedonia. The motivation is that the >>ability of any government to control territory is largely limited by the >>speed of communications. >> >>The current Imperial Postal Service dispatch riders average about 10 >>mph, which means the cycle time for a message & reply between Thalsedon >>and the southern border forts is a bit more than 4.5 days. A heliograph >>system like the one used by the Byzantine Empire would cut that cycle >>time down to 1hr, 50min. >> >>As far as I can tell, the basic technology for such a system exists on >>Qaiyore; it's a question of scaling up, and investment in time, >>manpower, and money. Indeed, given the scale of the old Cedonian Empire, >>one might argue that a heliograph system would be a reestablishment of a >>lost technology. >> >>So, I just kind of floating this idea to see what you all think about >>it, if you have any thoughts or ideas (like how long it might take to >>build, etc.) >> >>Andrew >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > > ================================ > Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer > ================================ > This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: > Kaeir might find such a system useful; the Islands and Tirmaeir are > close enough to be linked by such a system. > > As a rule of thumb, according to a website about heliographs that I > found, every inch of mirror diameter gives you ten miles of range. A > ten-inch mirror would be large enough to signal across the channels > separating the islands from each other and the mainland. I think you'll find that those mirrors are _parabolic_ mirrors, which Qaiyore doesn't have the technology to make. I believe flat mirrors give you about 100 yards per inch diameter under ideal conditions, and the best (less than flat) mirrors available on Qaiyore would be worse. Also, taking the world's curvature into account, each of your observers and mirrors would need to be a minimum of 1380 feet above sea level. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Really, even using a simple morse-code style flash/no flash communication? Perhaps simple warning bonfires then... :( Ibrahim > -----Original Message----- > From: bounces@phoenyx.net [mailto:bounces@phoenyx.net] On Behalf Of > Jefferson > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 3:52 PM > To: celandra@phoenyx.net > Subject: Re: [Cel] A bright idea? > > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > > Kaeir might find such a system useful; the Islands and Tirmaeir are > > close enough to be linked by such a system. > > > > As a rule of thumb, according to a website about heliographs that I > > found, every inch of mirror diameter gives you ten miles of range. A > > ten-inch mirror would be large enough to signal across the channels > > separating the islands from each other and the mainland. > > I think you'll find that those mirrors are _parabolic_ mirrors, which > Qaiyore > doesn't have the technology to make. I believe flat mirrors give you > about > 100 yards per inch diameter under ideal conditions, and the best (less > than > flat) mirrors available on Qaiyore would be worse. > > Also, taking the world's curvature into account, each of your observers > and > mirrors would need to be a minimum of 1380 feet above sea level. > > Jefferson > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. ================================ Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer ================================ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Well, I guess the way I see it, if Byzantium could do it with 9th Century technology, Sedonia can do it. I also think that we shouldn't automatically assume that lenses haven't been invented yet, or clear glass, for that matter. Andrew Ibrahim wrote: > Really, even using a simple morse-code style flash/no flash communication? > > Perhaps simple warning bonfires then... :( > > Ibrahim > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: bounces@phoenyx.net [mailto:bounces@phoenyx.net] On Behalf Of >>Jefferson >>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 3:52 PM >>To: celandra@phoenyx.net >>Subject: Re: [Cel] A bright idea? >> >>Andrew Janssen wrote: >> >> >>>Kaeir might find such a system useful; the Islands and Tirmaeir are >>>close enough to be linked by such a system. >>> >>>As a rule of thumb, according to a website about heliographs that I >>>found, every inch of mirror diameter gives you ten miles of range. A >>>ten-inch mirror would be large enough to signal across the channels >>>separating the islands from each other and the mainland. >> >>I think you'll find that those mirrors are _parabolic_ mirrors, which >>Qaiyore >>doesn't have the technology to make. I believe flat mirrors give you >>about >>100 yards per inch diameter under ideal conditions, and the best (less >>than >>flat) mirrors available on Qaiyore would be worse. >> >>Also, taking the world's curvature into account, each of your observers >>and >>mirrors would need to be a minimum of 1380 feet above sea level. >> >>Jefferson >>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > > ================================ > Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer > ================================ > This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
The website I got a lot of heliograph information from is: http://myweb.cableone.net/kd7aoi/ From the pictures of the American Service heliograph and the British Mance heliograph, it seems pretty clear that the mirrors are in fact flat. There's also a reference under one of the subsidiary links to the American heliograph, 4in mirror, being bright enough to hurt the naked eye at forty miles away. Another website, http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/heliograph/heliograph.htm suggests that the maximum distance over which a heliograph flash can be seen with the naked eye is thirty miles. Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: > The website I got a lot of heliograph information from is: > > http://myweb.cableone.net/kd7aoi/ > > From the pictures of the American Service heliograph and the British > Mance heliograph, it seems pretty clear that the mirrors are in fact > flat. The American Service heliograph is a drawing, not a photograph. The British and Portuguese heliographs are clearly parabolic. Look at the circular patterns on the reflective surfaces. A flat mirror would show either lines or waves. > There's also a reference under one of the subsidiary links to the > American heliograph, 4in mirror, being bright enough to hurt the naked > eye at forty miles away. Then it has to be parabolic. Ordinary reflected sunlight is not dangerous at that range. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Jefferson wrote: > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>The website I got a lot of heliograph information from is: >> >>http://myweb.cableone.net/kd7aoi/ >> >> From the pictures of the American Service heliograph and the British >>Mance heliograph, it seems pretty clear that the mirrors are in fact >>flat. > > > The American Service heliograph is a drawing, not a photograph. The British > and Portuguese heliographs are clearly parabolic. Look at the circular > patterns on the reflective surfaces. A flat mirror would show either lines or > waves. I might be willing to grant you the British, but I don't think you can tell about the Portugese. The image quality isn't great. Andrew > >>There's also a reference under one of the subsidiary links to the >>American heliograph, 4in mirror, being bright enough to hurt the naked >>eye at forty miles away. > > > Then it has to be parabolic. Ordinary reflected sunlight is not dangerous at > that range. I didn't say it was dangerous, just that it hurt. Andrew > Jefferson > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: >>Then it has to be parabolic. Ordinary reflected sunlight is not dangerous at >>that range. > > I didn't say it was dangerous, just that it hurt. Eyes are relatively insensitive, and can be seriously damaged by bright light without pain. If a bright light hurts, it's dangerous. However, just because a bright light doesn't hurt doesn't mean it _isn't_ dangerous. Bright light can, however, cause a flinch reaction without being dangerous. This reaction isn't meaningful without a complete description of the circumstances. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Jefferson wrote: > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>Kaeir might find such a system useful; the Islands and Tirmaeir are >>close enough to be linked by such a system. >> >>As a rule of thumb, according to a website about heliographs that I >>found, every inch of mirror diameter gives you ten miles of range. A >>ten-inch mirror would be large enough to signal across the channels >>separating the islands from each other and the mainland. > > > I think you'll find that those mirrors are _parabolic_ mirrors, which Qaiyore > doesn't have the technology to make. I believe flat mirrors give you about > 100 yards per inch diameter under ideal conditions, and the best (less than > flat) mirrors available on Qaiyore would be worse. As far as I am able to determine from the website that I got the information from, the mirrors are flat, rather than parabolic. > Also, taking the world's curvature into account, each of your observers and > mirrors would need to be a minimum of 1380 feet above sea level. Where on earth do you get that figure from? Andrew > Jefferson > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: > Jefferson wrote: > >>Also, taking the world's curvature into account, each of your observers and >>mirrors would need to be a minimum of 1380 feet above sea level. > > Where on earth do you get that figure from? http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/distance.htm calculating for a horizon at 50 miles. Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Jefferson wrote: > Andrew Janssen wrote: > >>Jefferson wrote: >> >> >>>Also, taking the world's curvature into account, each of your observers and >>>mirrors would need to be a minimum of 1380 feet above sea level. >> >>Where on earth do you get that figure from? > > > http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/distance.htm calculating for a horizon at 50 miles. Ok, I see how that works. You'd be able to space your stations out farther in mountainous or hilly terrain, and you'd have to put them closer together in flatlands. Part of what probably helped the Byzantine system is that Anatolia is very mountainous & hilly. As far as beacon fires go, there's a description in Aeschylus' Orestia of a chain of beacons, beginning at Troy and terminating in Mycenae, which signal the fall of Troy to Clytemnestra. Some poor soul in a publish-or-perish job determined that the locations of the beacons as given in the play would indeed have worked to send a very simple signal. When I thought of a Cedonian heliograph/beacon network, I wasn't envisioning it as transmitting terribly complex messages . . . my thought was that it would be used to send simple messages like, "The peasants are revolting," or "The Ice Demons are coming!" one way, and "Reinforcements have been sent" or "General, you are relieved of command," the other way. I'm also thinking of a much smaller and simpler system using pairs of torches for the Vizinian border fortifications, based on the mile-castles on Hadrian's Wall. Andrew > Jefferson > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: > When I thought of a Cedonian heliograph/beacon network, I wasn't > envisioning it as transmitting terribly complex messages . . . my > thought was that it would be used to send simple messages like, "The > peasants are revolting," or "The Ice Demons are coming!" one way, and > "Reinforcements have been sent" or "General, you are relieved of > command," the other way. Ah. Since you were talking about horse messengers I thought you were talking about a _communications_ system. A _signaling_ system is a different matter. A system to send up to six set messages would be fairly easy to set up, though still rather expensive. With each additional possible message the system increases in complexity and cost, probably exponentially. I doubt that Cedonia could build a system to handle more than 24 messages. Would the government consider that enough for the expense involved? Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Jefferson wrote: > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>When I thought of a Cedonian heliograph/beacon network, I wasn't >>envisioning it as transmitting terribly complex messages . . . my >>thought was that it would be used to send simple messages like, "The >>peasants are revolting," or "The Ice Demons are coming!" one way, and >>"Reinforcements have been sent" or "General, you are relieved of >>command," the other way. > > > Ah. Since you were talking about horse messengers I thought you were talking > about a _communications_ system. A _signaling_ system is a different matter. > A system to send up to six set messages would be fairly easy to set up, > though still rather expensive. With each additional possible message the > system increases in complexity and cost, probably exponentially. I doubt that > Cedonia could build a system to handle more than 24 messages. Would the > government consider that enough for the expense involved? 24 symbols/messages would probably work fine, at least for a first-generation system. The idea is that the heliograph/beacons would be used to send urgent messages, critically important information, while the existing pony express system would be used to send detailed reports. If one creates a system which can send 24 symbols, by using a system of two-symbol messages you can increase the number of possible messages to 576. More simply, if you reserve 6 symbols to indicate pages in a code book, and you put the remaining 18 symbols on each page (different meanings on every page), that would give you 108 possible messages, more than enough. As far as costs go, Cedonia has one of the largest economies in the MidSea, and it's not as if this would all be done at once. I was figuring on, as a ball-park estimate, needing at least five years to go from Thalcedon to Tiraren, and at least fifteen to twenty years to extend the network through all of Cedonia. Let me run some numbers. I need to actually sit down with my Qaiyore maps and figure out roughly how many stations would be needed. I also probably should do that after getting some sleep. :P Andrew > Jefferson > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: > 24 symbols/messages would probably work fine, at least for a > first-generation system. The idea is that the heliograph/beacons would > be used to send urgent messages, critically important information, while > the existing pony express system would be used to send detailed reports. > > If one creates a system which can send 24 symbols, by using a system of > two-symbol messages you can increase the number of possible messages to > 576. More simply, if you reserve 6 symbols to indicate pages in a code > book, and you put the remaining 18 symbols on each page (different > meanings on every page), that would give you 108 possible messages, more > than enough. Ah! This is probably what the Byzantines and Ottomans did. For Selandra, it requires knowledge that only exists in their intelligence service at present, but it's doable. I also have to pull back a bit on my comments about building stations. If a nation has the population density and the culture they might relocate farming villages specifically to provide support for the stations. I'm not sure what bandwidth you'ld get out of the 5 mile separation (on the flat, hills or mountains would be more) between stations this scheme would give you, but it would move things from "impossible" to "extremely difficult." Start-up would be even more expensive, but the continuing costs wouldn't be all that bad. (This idea didn't occur to me at first, BTW, because I live in an area with a low population density, and it will only work in areas with high populations and extensive contiguous agriculture.) Signaling remains a problem. In my youth I experimented with sending reflections via a 4" square shaving mirror. Even in cases where I could clearly see the reflection on my target, the target couldn't see the flashes at a quarter of a mile. (Nor could I make out the signals when we reversed positions.) It occurs to me that the best focal length for a parabolic reflector is half of the expected signaling distance. Thus, if the standard signaling distance is 5 miles the focal length of the mirror would be 2.5 miles. Such a mirror would appear to be flat for most purposes. Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
The way I had thought about this was first create a simple system, and then work up to more complex over a considerable period of time. Jefferson wrote: > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>24 symbols/messages would probably work fine, at least for a >>first-generation system. The idea is that the heliograph/beacons would >>be used to send urgent messages, critically important information, while >>the existing pony express system would be used to send detailed reports. >> >>If one creates a system which can send 24 symbols, by using a system of >>two-symbol messages you can increase the number of possible messages to >>576. More simply, if you reserve 6 symbols to indicate pages in a code >>book, and you put the remaining 18 symbols on each page (different >>meanings on every page), that would give you 108 possible messages, more >>than enough. > > > Ah! This is probably what the Byzantines and Ottomans did. For Selandra, it > requires knowledge that only exists in their intelligence service at present, > but it's doable. I would think that the military would also have some relevant knowledge, given that every such signalling system in our (real-world) history came out of the needs of commanders to control their forces. The system I suggest above is very like the one used by the British Royal Navy with their signal flags. > I also have to pull back a bit on my comments about building stations. If a > nation has the population density and the culture they might relocate farming > villages specifically to provide support for the stations. I'm not sure what > bandwidth you'ld get out of the 5 mile separation (on the flat, hills or > mountains would be more) between stations this scheme would give you, but it > would move things from "impossible" to "extremely difficult." Start-up would > be even more expensive, but the continuing costs wouldn't be all that bad. > > (This idea didn't occur to me at first, BTW, because I live in an area with a > low population density, and it will only work in areas with high populations > and extensive contiguous agriculture.) Well, central Sedonia, Tirmar, and Vizina are quite densely populated, and Sedonian culture would certainly be willing to relocate villages if need be. Most villages are close to military roads, anyway, and where possible, the signal towers would follow the roads. The widest separation between towers would be achieved on an east-west line, Thalsedon to Casovia, due to terrain. The north-south line to Vizinia also passes through fairly hilly country. The biggest problem would be the plains of Selaria, which are very flat. Probably, any line to Selaria would simply terminate at Losela. > Signaling remains a problem. In my youth I experimented with sending > reflections via a 4" square shaving mirror. Even in cases where I could > clearly see the reflection on my target, the target couldn't see the flashes > at a quarter of a mile. (Nor could I make out the signals when we reversed > positions.) Well, I'm going to be doing some more research about mirrors & such . . . one thing to consider: Perhaps I should do a strategic action to invent the telescope first! The knowledge of lens making almost certainly exists--it's just a question of someone having an 'Eureka!' moment. Andrew > It occurs to me that the best focal length for a parabolic reflector is half > of the expected signaling distance. Thus, if the standard signaling distance > is 5 miles the focal length of the mirror would be 2.5 miles. Such a mirror > would appear to be flat for most purposes. Certainly in most of the Heliographs I've seen pictured on-line, there isn't any visible curvature to the signal mirror. (the Mance model excepted) Andrew > Jefferson (Exquaestio) > http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Andrew Janssen wrote: >> A system to send up to six set messages would be fairly easy to set up, >>though still rather expensive. With each additional possible message the >>system increases in complexity and cost, probably exponentially. I doubt that >>Cedonia could build a system to handle more than 24 messages. Would the >>government consider that enough for the expense involved? > > > 24 symbols/messages would probably work fine, at least for a > first-generation system. The idea is that the heliograph/beacons would > be used to send urgent messages, critically important information, while > the existing pony express system would be used to send detailed reports. My take on the subject. This is a nice idea. I see no fundamental reason why it shouldn't work as a signalling system. It is hideously expensive. The initial version required to send one message (basically, a pre-agreed "yes/no" from border to border) would require a complete set of watch towers, and a permanent staffing on them: there would have to be a constant watch over the other towers to capture the messages. And if one tower is down, the message will just stop there. Two analogies: in real world, it was only with the invention of telegraph that long range communication by other means than physically going over there because commonplace/reasonable. Before that, the pony express could still beat any other form of messaging. On Discworld, there are the claks towers, which as an idea is *very* similar to this. But it only works because the gargoyles are ideal workers for the towers. They can idly sit and watch for distant objects for days, and have the intelligence to interpret the messages. On Celandra, there's the magical option to communication, though. Lucia's priests, among others, know about teleportation. Other religions send *important* messages by servants in the Dreaming. Of course, this can be unreliable and dangerous. > As far as costs go, Cedonia has one of the largest economies in the > MidSea, and it's not as if this would all be done at once. I was > figuring on, as a ball-park estimate, needing at least five years to go > from Thalcedon to Tiraren, and at least fifteen to twenty years to > extend the network through all of Cedonia. Gamewise: let's make it a sing Very hard (-2) action to create the initial pilot. One Success is enough to prove it works. You don't have to invent anything new really. And there's always the magic option to enhance the mirrors (of course, this might not be available for Cedonia...). Then, a Strategic action (difficulity determined by the success in the pilot action) of 3 successes to create initial network from border to border. And another 10 successes to cover all essential centers. At which point the government would have the ability to send pre-agreed signals all over the country in a span of 1-2 days (accounting for delayes and breaks; extreme weather would be a problem). juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Juha Vesanto wrote: > Andrew Janssen wrote: >> > Gamewise: let's make it a sing Very hard (-2) action to create > the initial pilot. One Success is enough to prove it works. > You don't have to invent anything new really. And there's always > the magic option to enhance the mirrors (of course, this might > not be available for Cedonia...). Well, since we had last talked about this topic, I've had a couple thoughts. One was that all Lucian priests have some magical ability to manipulate light, which would be of aid in using the system at night. As for enhancing the mirrors, Cedonia couldn't cast enhancing spells on them, but if the Order of Torronir got involved in the manufacturing process, they'd be able to ensure the production of mirrors of the highest quality. > Then, a Strategic action (difficulity determined by the success > in the pilot action) of 3 successes to create initial network > from border to border. And another 10 successes to cover all > essential centers. At which point the government would have the > ability to send pre-agreed signals all over the country in a span > of 1-2 days (accounting for delayes and breaks; extreme weather > would be a problem). As a point of comparison, the Byzantine and Caliphate beacon systems could send their signals at about 600 mph. It's about 400 miles as the crow flies from Thalcedon to Tiraren, the headquarters of the legion defending the southern border. Assuming everything works (ha!) an invasion of Vizinia would be known about in Thalcedon less than an hour after word reaches Tiraren. Andrew > juuso > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
