[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

I've just uploaded a major update of Exquaestio, and I'd appreciate it if 
people could look through it and tell me what they think.  In addition to 
making sure that I haven't included anything that doesn't suit Celandra, I'm 
particularly interested in if the formatting works out in other programs (I 
use Netscape).

I've also uploaded a .zip file containing all the Exquaestio files.  I don't 
think I'm going to disappear, but if I do this will allow people to recreate 
the pages (with only a little work).

Looking forward to your comments,

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Hum.

It might be more accurate to say that Demerhaze has allied herself to 
Feroze for the moment--Demerhaze, like the moons, is changeable. It 
would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral due 
to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls, while 
Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact that 
her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take 
opposite positions on most issues.

As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic pretty 
well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the 
permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue with 
using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another; and the Portus 
gleam should possibly be amended to reflect the Celandran prohibition on 
time-affecting magics.  Although, having said that, it occurs to me that 
preservation spells, depending on how they work, might in fact be an 
exception to that.

As far as formatting goes, it looks just fine to me, no wonkiness of any 
kind.

Having read your stuff reminds me that I've been meaning to write 
something about the Torphani and what they believe. So far as I know, 
the only thing that's been stated to date is that the Torphani consider 
their Emperor to be a divine avatar--beyond that, nothing's been said.

Andrew

Jefferson wrote:

> I've just uploaded a major update of Exquaestio, and I'd appreciate it if 
> people could look through it and tell me what they think.  In addition to 
> making sure that I haven't included anything that doesn't suit Celandra, I'm 
> particularly interested in if the formatting works out in other programs (I 
> use Netscape).
> 
> I've also uploaded a .zip file containing all the Exquaestio files.  I don't 
> think I'm going to disappear, but if I do this will allow people to recreate 
> the pages (with only a little work).
> 
> Looking forward to your comments,
> 
> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html
> 
> 
> 
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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Andrew Janssen wrote:

> It might be more accurate to say that Demerhaze has allied herself to 
> Feroze for the moment--Demerhaze, like the moons, is changeable.

I'd rather not get into the motivations of the gods.  A general statement 
about attitude won't become outdated as quickly.

> It 
> would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral due 
> to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,

As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of 
significance to Coron.  Since Feroze has agreed not to cause problems, Coron 
has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical practices.  In 
the page I've changed the description from "positive" to "cooperative."

Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not as badly 
as hostile deities.

> while 
> Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact that 
> her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take 
> opposite positions on most issues.

Well, that isn't the only problem.  Among other things, in Celandra Feroze is 
on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order).  Though 
neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course.  They're 
hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their differences 
without a war.

> As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic pretty 
> well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the 
> permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue with 
> using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;

I don't think I'm familiar with this.  What's the issue?

> and the Portus 
> gleam should possibly be amended to reflect the Celandran prohibition on 
> time-affecting magics.  Although, having said that, it occurs to me that 
> preservation spells, depending on how they work, might in fact be an 
> exception to that.

I can add, "This does not permit time travel" easily enough if you think it's 
needed.  I was thinking more on the lines of haste, slow, and stasis for time 
effects.  I also tend to think more in terms of "space-time" than separate 
"space" and "time" so I automatically put the two down together.

> As far as formatting goes, it looks just fine to me, no wonkiness of any 
> kind.

Good to know.  Thanks.

> Having read your stuff reminds me that I've been meaning to write 
> something about the Torphani and what they believe. So far as I know, 
> the only thing that's been stated to date is that the Torphani consider 
> their Emperor to be a divine avatar--beyond that, nothing's been said.

With Millat Shanar in the north and Exquaestio in the south, I've been 
thinking that it would fit the pattern for another new religion to have 
recently appeared in the east (in Torphan).  From what I can tell, something 
of a Buddhist nature might be appropriate for Torphan.

(Actually, I've sort of been assuming that Millat Shanar and Equaestio aren't 
the only new religions in the area.  They're just the most successful, and 
have been absorbing other divergent beliefs.  The new religion in Torphan 
would be just as successful.)

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

I am hurt.  No statement on his relationship with Miracradsa.  
 
Jason Heaps

Jefferson  wrote:
Andrew Janssen wrote:

> It might be more accurate to say that Demerhaze has allied herself to 
> Feroze for the moment--Demerhaze, like the moons, is changeable.

I'd rather not get into the motivations of the gods. A general statement 
about attitude won't become outdated as quickly.

> It 
> would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral due 
> to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,

As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of 
significance to Coron. Since Feroze has agreed not to cause problems, Coron 
has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical practices. In 
the page I've changed the description from "positive" to "cooperative."

Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not as badly 
as hostile deities.

> while 
> Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact that 
> her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take 
> opposite positions on most issues.

Well, that isn't the only problem. Among other things, in Celandra Feroze is 
on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order). Though 
neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course. They're 
hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their differences 
without a war.

> As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic pretty 
> well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the 
> permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue with 
> using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;

I don't think I'm familiar with this. What's the issue?

> and the Portus 
> gleam should possibly be amended to reflect the Celandran prohibition on 
> time-affecting magics. Although, having said that, it occurs to me that 
> preservation spells, depending on how they work, might in fact be an 
> exception to that.

I can add, "This does not permit time travel" easily enough if you think it's 
needed. I was thinking more on the lines of haste, slow, and stasis for time 
effects. I also tend to think more in terms of "space-time" than separate 
"space" and "time" so I automatically put the two down together.

> As far as formatting goes, it looks just fine to me, no wonkiness of any 
> kind.

Good to know. Thanks.

> Having read your stuff reminds me that I've been meaning to write 
> something about the Torphani and what they believe. So far as I know, 
> the only thing that's been stated to date is that the Torphani consider 
> their Emperor to be a divine avatar--beyond that, nothing's been said.

With Millat Shanar in the north and Exquaestio in the south, I've been 
thinking that it would fit the pattern for another new religion to have 
recently appeared in the east (in Torphan). From what I can tell, something 
of a Buddhist nature might be appropriate for Torphan.

(Actually, I've sort of been assuming that Millat Shanar and Equaestio aren't 
the only new religions in the area. They're just the most successful, and 
have been absorbing other divergent beliefs. The new religion in Torphan 
would be just as successful.)

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jason Heaps wrote:

> I am hurt.  No statement on his relationship with Miracradsa.  

I thought Miracradsa was currently neutral.  If you'ld like something else, 
just let me know.

(I'm working on a story to explore just this aspect, but I didn't see how I 
can take certain needed actions until after the shut-off date for this 
particular update.)

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

She might be a little upset about the whole listening mages if she was not consulted since she is their patron diety even if they don't all worship her.

Jefferson  wrote:
Jason Heaps wrote:

> I am hurt. No statement on his relationship with Miracradsa. 

I thought Miracradsa was currently neutral. If you'ld like something else, 
just let me know.

(I'm working on a story to explore just this aspect, but I didn't see how I 
can take certain needed actions until after the shut-off date for this 
particular update.)

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jason Heaps wrote:

> She [Miracradsa] might be a little upset about the whole listening mages if she was not consulted since she is their patron diety even if they don't all worship her.

Sorry, I don't understand.  Could you expand?

Jefferson (Exquaestio)



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One of Miracradsa aspect is magic (she also covers families) and as a by product all who uses magic that is not granted to them by their god are in that activity under her domion.  Just like regardless of weather or not you worship him Corron he is still over Death/Birth or even if they don't worhsip Lucia, judges and other who seek the truth and uphold it are in a way under her domion in that activity.
 
The Exquaestio are follows of another god and they represent their god and his wishes, ect.  For another god or his church to start running around trying to put licence on her field of expertice or domion would really upset her.  Unless of course she was consulted and came to an agreement.  (Which as they way the listening currently stands proble would not happen since in her mind someone who knows what they are talking about is not on the lisencing group (some sort of mage/Sorcerer.)
 
This is not saying she completely disproves of magic.  To the contrary the magical orders of Taltheran, Celpalar, Mir, Burcancy, Torphan all lisence their mages.
 
(Side note still waiting for Juuso to reply on a question for a full statement on Mirs responce but since you were going for individual mages and not groups.  I would say that Mir (goverment/magical order) would not be to happy with someone coming in and telling them there lisence were not good enough.)
 
Jason Heaps

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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jason Heaps wrote:

 >The Exquaestio are follows of another god and they represent their god
 >and his wishes, ect. For another god or his church to start running
 >around trying to put licence on her field of expertice or domion would
 >really upset her.

Why? I'd think she'd be pleased that more people were making use of
magic.

 >Unless of course she was consulted and came to an agreement. (Which as
 >they way the listening currently stands proble would not happen since
 >in her mind someone who knows what they are talking about is not on the
 >lisencing group (some sort of mage/Sorcerer.)

Since this was a decision by the mortals who run Exquaestio there's no
way for her to be consulted.

 >This is not saying she completely disproves of magic. To the contrary
 >the magical orders of Taltheran, Celpalar, Mir, Burcancy, Torphan all
 >license their mages.
 >
 >(Side note still waiting for Juuso to reply on a question for a full
 >statement on Mirs responce but since you were going for individual
 >mages and not groups. I would say that Mir (goverment/magical order)
 >would not be to happy with someone coming in and telling them there
 >lisence were not good enough.)

So Mir is going to go after the people who won't go to a mage without an
Exquaestio license when it's left the people who would burn mages alone?
That doesn't make any sense.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jefferson wrote:
> Jason Heaps wrote:
> 
>  >The Exquaestio are follows of another god and they represent their god
>  >and his wishes, ect. For another god or his church to start running
>  >around trying to put licence on her field of expertice or domion would
>  >really upset her.

One point here about dominions. Miracradsa doesn't have a monopoly
on the "magic" dominion, and she knows this. Neither does Lucia have
a monopoly on "justice", or whatever. They can be upset, of course,
but it's a fact of life that people don't need Miracradsa to practice
magic (or Lucia to practice justice), and thus they turn to other
gods also for advice and support. They way I see it, Miracradsa
cares for all practitioners of (certain types of) magic, but is
really only worshipped by Mir (and those influenced by Mir).

> Why? I'd think she'd be pleased that more people were making use of
> magic.

This is not generally true: more isn't always the same as good, even
if you really like about the thing you get "more" of.

>  >Unless of course she was consulted and came to an agreement. (Which as
>  >they way the listening currently stands proble would not happen since
>  >in her mind someone who knows what they are talking about is not on the
>  >lisencing group (some sort of mage/Sorcerer.)
> 
> Since this was a decision by the mortals who run Exquaestio there's no
> way for her to be consulted.

This is the way I see this. This licensing has nothing to do with
gods. The people who have bought the license have been practicing
magic anyway. Previously, they just didn't have a sheet of paper
saying they did it, and they had the good morale about it.
If I may decide it, Miracradsa regards the license stuff as political
or commercial stuff, a non-issue for her. But official Mir reaction
is naturally fundamentally political/commercial in nature. A natural
response from them is to put heavy pressure on Exquaestio to withdraw
their licensing scheme, because it is a competitor to Mir's own
"product".

juuso




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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Juha Vesanto wrote:
> Jefferson wrote:
>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>
>>Why? I'd think she'd be pleased that more people were making use of
>>magic.
> 
> This is not generally true: more isn't always the same as good, even
> if you really like about the thing you get "more" of.

Good point.

>>>Unless of course she was consulted and came to an agreement. (Which as
>>>they way the listening currently stands proble would not happen since
>>>in her mind someone who knows what they are talking about is not on the
>>>lisencing group (some sort of mage/Sorcerer.)
>>
>>Since this was a decision by the mortals who run Exquaestio there's no
>>way for her to be consulted.
> 
> This is the way I see this. This licensing has nothing to do with
> gods. The people who have bought the license have been practicing
> magic anyway. Previously, they just didn't have a sheet of paper
> saying they did it, and they had the good morale about it.
> If I may decide it, Miracradsa regards the license stuff as political
> or commercial stuff, a non-issue for her. But official Mir reaction
> is naturally fundamentally political/commercial in nature. A natural
> response from them is to put heavy pressure on Exquaestio to withdraw
> their licensing scheme, because it is a competitor to Mir's own
> "product".

Yes.  That's how I see it as well.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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Jefferson  wrote:
Juha Vesanto wrote:
> Jefferson wrote:
>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>
>>Why? I'd think she'd be pleased that more people were making use of
>>magic.
> 
> This is not generally true: more isn't always the same as good, even
> if you really like about the thing you get "more" of.

Good point.

>>>Unless of course she was consulted and came to an agreement. (Which as
>>>they way the listening currently stands proble would not happen since
>>>in her mind someone who knows what they are talking about is not on the
>>>lisencing group (some sort of mage/Sorcerer.)
>>
>>Since this was a decision by the mortals who run Exquaestio there's no
>>way for her to be consulted.
> 
> This is the way I see this. This licensing has nothing to do with
> gods. The people who have bought the license have been practicing
> magic anyway. Previously, they just didn't have a sheet of paper
> saying they did it, and they had the good morale about it.
> If I may decide it, Miracradsa regards the license stuff as political
> or commercial stuff, a non-issue for her. But official Mir reaction
> is naturally fundamentally political/commercial in nature. A natural
> response from them is to put heavy pressure on Exquaestio to withdraw
> their licensing scheme, because it is a competitor to Mir's own
> "product".

Yes. That's how I see it as well.


I would agree with that

Another thing to remember though is that the Mirrish Sorcerers are Miracradsa priest as well.

I think and important thing to ask is do the Exquaestio reconize other organizations lisences.  Because the way I understood is they don't.

 

Jason Heaps


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Jason Heaps wrote:
 > Jefferson  wrote:
 > Jason Heaps wrote:
 >
 >>>The Exquaestio are follows of another god and they represent their god
 >>>and his wishes, ect. For another god or his church to start running
 >>>around trying to put licence on her field of expertice or domion would
 >>>really upset her.
 >
 >>Why? I'd think she'd be pleased that more people were making use of
 >>magic.
 >
 >But your people are not using magic they are just giving lisence to
 >people who already pratice magic.

But trust in the license means more people purchasing magic and thus
more magic being used.

 >>>I would say that Mir (goverment/magical order)
 >>>would not be to happy with someone coming in and telling them there
 >>>license were not good enough.
 >>
 >>So Mir is going to go after the people who won't go to a mage without an
 >>Exquaestio license when it's left the people who would burn mages alone?
 >>That doesn't make any sense.
 >
 >That is because you are twisting my words. I NEVER said that Mir would
 >go after people who choose a Exquaestio lisence over Mirrish.

So what are they going to do then?

 >(Just as they are not upset when choose east torphan or tal) I said
 >they would they would be unhappy with someone coming up to their
 >Sorcerers and saying "Here if you get our lisence you will be excepted
 >anywere."

That's not what the license says, nor is it how Exquaestio is promoting
their licenses. See my post on the topic.

 >They are basicilly saying your lisence is not good enough.

So why get upset at the licensing agency when it's the people who use
the licenses that are being insulting?

 >Now if the Exquaestio would have come to the Mirrish Goverment and
 >tried to work out a deal. One: they might have been able to create a
 >united lisence both liked, but even if not that then Mir would not feel
 >that they were sneaking behind its back and proble have excepted there
 >licence as valid. As it now stands Mir proble would just laught in
 >their face until they actually try to contact the goverment about the
 >issue.

A united license isn't a possibility. Many people in the areas where
Exquaestio is strongest are hostile to Mir and the license would lose
its value if people thought Mir was behind it. Lots of people in, say,
Tanimbar, would be willing to give a mage with Exq. connections a shot
but would turn away from a Mage with connections to Mir.

 >Mir is fine with trying to licence Mages, they completly respect the
 >various other orders, but when your start advertising it in Mir with
 >out acutally talking to the goverment, and especially when Mir have a
 >extremly strict licencing system themselves. That is why they are
 >upset.

So, you feel it's appropriate for a government to take action because a
bunch of, say, psychologists are displaying a certificate saying
"approved by the Baptist community" on their walls and that baptist
churches are directing their people to those psychologists?

 >Mir would not attack or punish innosent people. (Now I will admite
 >some of the factions, not including the current Archmage, aren't above
 >discrediting, but they are not THAT worried. They are just offended
 >really.)

Oh, well if it's a matter of emotion and not of action I can certainly
understand that, but that's not what you seemed to be saying.

 >I think and important thing to ask is do the Exquaestio reconize other
 >organizations lisences. Because the way I understood is they don't.

Exquaestio should automatically grant their licenses to people with
another type of license? No. That would make their hierarchy subserviant
to another organization which is against basic Exquaestio doctrine.

(Hmmm, I should probably add that another service Exquaestio provides
for mages is keeping track of the local laws regarding magic. I thought
this went without saying, but based on this discussion, probably not.)

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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Jefferson wrote:



> 
> (Hmmm, I should probably add that another service Exquaestio provides
> for mages is keeping track of the local laws regarding magic. I thought
> this went without saying, but based on this discussion, probably not.)

I've found that things which "go without saying" rarely do.

Andrew

> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
> 
> 
> 
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I have a couple things to say and then I am done with the topic.  
 
First the united license would only be for the Sorcerers.  Not for everyone you license.  Since Mir also license on Advanced Magical skills, and it sounds like you lisence on they are a good person with some magical talents.  And even if one my sorcerers has one of your lisence that still shows you are working with Mir.  Even rumors of Mirafelle taking the Sorcerers test, and working for their University could very well also put you into the Mirrish camp in peoples minds
 
And to answear your question if a countries laws dictate that a psychologists have a goverment reconized psycheatic license then yes.  That is not saying it is always a goverment ageancy that supplies the psychologists but if the 'baptist church' is giving lisence in the country without govermental approval then yes i expect the goverment to do something or the church to get goverment approval.
 
All Mir ask is that anyone in Mir follow the legal proceding in Mir.  You clam your lisence require the mages to uphold the laws of the area the live and travel.  If your church can't even pratice what it preaches that will trust, at least in Mir, will fall apart.  Notice I have just stated Mir would be unhappy.  I never said they would do anything to the Exquaestio.  Mirish goverment has a high respect for your people, but that respect come from the fact that your followers are hardworking, lawabiding citzens.  You have been granted seats on the University, Mirafelle was respected enought to be allowed to take the test.  Much of that trust would quickly go down hill if they don't even contact the goverment especially since you do more then just give traveling liscense you give local and provincial.  Notice I offered to create a Mirrish Lisence with the Exquaestio that would satisfy both orgainization.  Mir normally would not even consider to do that.
 
Lastely I am tired of people (so this is not ment to be aimed at just you,  Sorry if it might come across that way) telling me how societies THEY DON"T play feel towards me.  That is between me, that society, and Juuso or who ever the GM is.  If you want to say that your people don't like me and teach their people to dislike Mir that is your right, but do not to tell me how another country feels towards me.  Unless you can pull out writen documentation about it or Juuso says it.
 
So for your comment that most of the countries you are in dislike Mir and would not be willing to go to it sorcerers I will strongely disagree.  Having read the Tanimbar page I am sorry to say they would go for their Coven first before you or me, and as from what I read about Tanimbar they have no issues with Mir (They have a strong hatred towards Cedonia, but Mir is not mentioned).  So a Tanimbarian if they don't go to the coven or the Coven is not able to handle the problem then I imagin there is just as likely a chance they would come to either of us. (Honestly if the coven can't help they proble would go to Mir who has anestablished repuation for having power.)
 
Burcancy likes me.  Always has since its unification 40 years ago.  Their wizarding order has a great respect for me, and honestly the two orders are fairly closes even before the assasination.  Torphan even has good relations with me.  The Free Cities each have their own view on it.  So that one is dependant on each city.  Videssia, yes does not like me, but frankely they hate ALL Magic so they wounld not be supportive of any magic user lisenced or not.
 
The only real reference we find to anti-magic of on any large scales dates RIGHT after the fall of the Mirrish Empire, and in the Cedonian Empire.  May I point out that there has been almost 1500 years since then.
 
Haveing looked at the various relations with other societies on their pages.  Most societies politically and culturally are either fair or mediocre towards Mir.  (Let me also point out that the mediocre once are mediocre with most other societies they have contact with)  And that trade with Mir is usally good or great.
 
As for magic I get the impression that even countries that don't like Mir (Which after a look at the relations are not that many), will willing admite that Mir magic is to be greatly respected and is of top quality, and very powerful.  So if people are actually willing to go seeking help for magic either outside of their countries magical system or in a country were magic is frowned on they would be willing to seek help from a Mirrish Sorcerer.  Andrew correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that even Cedonia which has strong anti-magic feelings and laws, has a high respect for Mirrish magic (I am not saying they trust magic or Mir for that matter, but I get the impression that except for clerical they mistrust all magic) and if someone wanted something that the priest could not provided the service, and REALLY want it would be willing to come looking for a mirrish sorcerer. 
 
I think the best example of the respect people hold is this comment from the Celpalar action 1406.  (Remember Celpalar really does not like Mir)
 

 
They know that a Mirrish Sorcerer means that their is power and that Sorcerer is no amiture or village witch and has recieved the best magical training in Qaiyore.
 
Jason Heaps



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jason Heaps wrote:

>  Andrew correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that even Cedonia which has strong anti-magic feelings and laws, has a high respect for Mirrish magic (I am not saying they trust magic or Mir for that matter, but I get the impression that except for clerical they mistrust all magic) and if someone wanted something that the priest could not provided the service, and REALLY want it would be willing to come looking for a mirrish sorcerer. 
>  

I'm not going to touch the rest of the message, beyond saying that every 
one needs to step back and take a deep breath. It's starting to seem 
like Jason & Jeff are talking past each other, rather than to each 
other. So let's all stay calm, bitte?

As to the specific point Jason brings up about Cedonian relations with 
Mir: Cedonians generally don't like the Mirrish very much, but they 
recognize & respect the talents of Mirrish sorcerors, and the few 
Mirrish sorcerors who visit Cedonia(usually to consult the University of 
Thalcedon library) go through a much faster process to receive 
permission to use magic, as compared to a Taltherani or Tanimbari.

The Cedonian government has consulted with Mirrish sorcerors from time 
to time, and relations have generally improved, but many Cedonians are 
unhappy about Mir's annexation of Talishara and environs after the 
Sinari War.

Cedonia would probably refuse to recognize Exquaestio licenses--indeed, 
depending on the attitudes of the arresting officers and the trial 
judge, possession of such a license could be used as either mitigating 
evidence(since Exquaestio demands a certain moral standard of its 
licensees) or aggravating evidence(such a license is pretty conclusive 
proof that the bearer is a magic user).

Any Cedonian who uses magic pretty much has to be either an ordained 
member of, or licensed by, the Cedonian State Church. Generally, the 
only non-clergy who receive such a license are the alchemists at the 
University of Thalcedon, and even there, many of them are in minor 
orders, so to speak. Some Casovian shamen are also licensed by the 
Church without being members of it.

Andrew

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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jason Heaps wrote:

 >First the united license would only be for the Sorcerers. Not for
 >everyone you license. Since Mir also license on Advanced Magical
 >skills, and it sounds like you lisence on they are a good person with
 >some magical talents. And even if one my sorcerers has one of your
 >lisence that still shows you are working with Mir. Even rumors of
 >Mirafelle taking the Sorcerers test, and working for their University
 >could very well also put you into the Mirrish camp in peoples minds
 >
 >And to answear your question if a countries laws dictate that a
 >psychologists have a goverment reconized psycheatic license then yes.
 >That is not saying it is always a goverment ageancy that supplies the
 >psychologists but if the 'baptist church' is giving lisence in the
 >country without govermental approval then yes i expect the goverment to
 >do something or the church to get goverment approval.

You will probably be surprized to find out that there are numerous
organizations who do _exactly_ what you expect "the goverment to do
something or the church to get goverment approval" and the government
doesn't care. The one I'm most familiar with at the moment is the
Colorado Dentistry List which keeps a list of approved dentists in
several ratings.

I now understand your viewpoint however. Which is that you think
Exquaestio is doing something WHICH THEY ARE NOT DOING. This is worth
repeating; EXQUAESTIO IS NOT DOING WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE DOING. Now,
go back and look at my descriptions, keeping in mind that WHAT YOU ARE
ASSUMING IS INCORRECT. Since I have no idea what triggered your
incorrect assumption, nor exactly what it is, I can't suggest anything
further.

 >All Mir ask is that anyone in Mir follow the legal proceding in Mir.
 >You clam your lisence require the mages to uphold the laws of the area
 >the live and travel. If your church can't even pratice what it preaches
 >that will trust, at least in Mir, will fall apart.

Now you are being deliberately insulting. Please show where I have EVER
said that the Exquaestio license allows mages to ignore local laws.

 >Notice I have just stated Mir would be unhappy. I never said they would
 >do anything to the Exquaestio.

That was a misinterpretation on my part. I feel that when a _government_
is unhappy they're going to do something about it. The _members_ of a
government being unhappy doesn't imply that a government is going to
take action.

[snip]

 >Lastely I am tired of people (so this is not ment to be aimed at just
 >you, Sorry if it might come across that way) telling me how societies
 >THEY DON"T play feel towards me. That is between me, that society, and
 >Juuso or who ever the GM is. If you want to say that your people don't
 >like me and teach their people to dislike Mir that is your right, but
 >do not to tell me how another country feels towards me. Unless you can
 >pull out writen documentation about it or Juuso says it.

 From the Tripod site:

Cormenaera: Magic Tolerance Poor, Mir Cultural Relations Mediocre

Damaris: Magic Essense Tolerance Terrible, Relations with any Culture of
magic users Poor

As these are the best defined of the Free Cities and among the most
populous, it's fair to say that, in general, Mir is not liked there.
When I developed Anaduan I specifically gave it good relations with Mir
in order to constrast with the general attitudes of the other Free
Cities.

Now, the situation with Tanimbar is recent. Tanimbar hates Sedonia and
was convinced by the King of the Burcancy to ally with the Burcancy and
Vizinia. Then (from Tanimbar's perspective) the Burcancy turns around
and sells out Vizinia for Sedonian support, leaving Tanimbar out in the
cold in spite of their previous alliance. Such a situation would leave
_any_ nation hostile to the perpetrators and cold to those supporting
the perpetrators. I've mentioned this before, and no one has brought up
any counters. Should the info. for Tanimbar ever be rewritten I'll
mention it again.

 >So for your comment that most of the countries you are in

The areas "where Exquaestio is strongest." That is Junder, South
Orasaren, and Tanimbar. They aren't strong in Tana, North Orasaren, and
Mir, and can only be considered weak in the other areas where they
exist at all.

 >dislike Mir and would not be willing to go to it sorcerers I will
 >strongely disagree. Having read the Tanimbar page I am sorry to say
 >they would go for their Coven first before you or me, and as from what
 >I read about Tanimbar they have no issues with Mir (They have a strong
 >hatred towards Cedonia, but Mir is not mentioned). So a Tanimbarian if
 >they don't go to the coven or the Coven is not able to handle the
 >problem then I imagin there is just as likely a chance they would come
 >to either of us. (Honestly if the coven can't help they proble would go
 >to Mir who has anestablished repuation for having power.)
 >
 >Burcancy likes me. Always has since its unification 40 years ago. Their
 >wizarding order has a great respect for me, and honestly the two orders
 >are fairly closes even before the assasination. Torphan even has good
 >relations with me. The Free Cities each have their own view on it. So
 >that one is dependant on each city. Videssia, yes does not like me, but
 >frankely they hate ALL Magic so they wounld not be supportive of any
 >magic user lisenced or not.
 >
 >The only real reference we find to anti-magic of on any large scales
 >dates RIGHT after the fall of the Mirrish Empire, and in the Cedonian
 >Empire. May I point out that there has been almost 1500 years since
 >then.

But there was not mention of any changes after that. Historically
speaking, that means that the situation continues.

 >Haveing looked at the various relations with other societies on their
 >pages. Most societies politically and culturally are either fair or
 >mediocre towards Mir. (Let me also point out that the mediocre once are
 >mediocre with most other societies they have contact with) And that
 >trade with Mir is usally good or great.

Mediocre is still negative, and even Fair would indicate numerous people
who don't want to go to a mage associated with Mir.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

I beleave that Andrew is right.  So after this I am done.
 
Mirrish law states to grant a lisence in Mir the organization must be approved by the Mirrish goverment.  If an organization starts granting lisence within Mir with out the goverments approval then they are breaking the law.
 
I will talk with Juuso in private, since I don't want to take up any more list space, about Mirs relation with Tanimbar and vise versa, and I politely request that people stop telling me how other societies view my own unless they play them.  Espicially when the information is only one word that can be left open to interpitation.
 
Thank everyone,
Jason Heaps


		
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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jason Heaps wrote:

 >Mirrish law states to grant a lisence in Mir the organization must be
 >approved by the Mirrish goverment. If an organization starts granting
 >lisence within Mir with out the goverments approval then they are
 >breaking the law.

Easy enough then. Exquaestio will just use the Orasareni term for
license in Mir and forbid the use of the Balpuri one.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

Jefferson  wrote:
Jason Heaps wrote:

>>The Exquaestio are follows of another god and they represent their god
>>and his wishes, ect. For another god or his church to start running
>>around trying to put licence on her field of expertice or domion would
>>really upset her.

>Why? I'd think she'd be pleased that more people were making use of
>magic.


But your people are not using magic they are just giving lisence to people who already pratice magic.


>>Unless of course she was consulted and came to an agreement. (Which as
>>they way the listening currently stands proble would not happen since
>>in her mind someone who knows what they are talking about is not on the
>>lisencing group (some sort of mage/Sorcerer.)

>Since this was a decision by the mortals who run Exquaestio there's no
>way for her to be consulted.

>>This is not saying she completely disproves of magic. To the contrary
>>the magical orders of Taltheran, Celpalar, Mir, Burcancy, Torphan all
>>license their mages.
>>
>>(Side note still waiting for Juuso to reply on a question for a full
>>statement on Mirs responce but since you were going for individual
>>mages and not groups. I would say that Mir (goverment/magical order)
>>would not be to happy with someone coming in and telling them there
>>lisence were not good enough.)

>So Mir is going to go after the people who won't go to a mage without an
>Exquaestio license when it's left the people who would burn mages alone?
>That doesn't make any sense.

That is because you are twisting my words.  I NEVER said that Mir would go after people who choose a Exquaestio lisence over Mirrish.  (Just as they are not upset when choose east torphan or tal) I said they would they would be unhappy with someone coming up to their Sorcerers and saying "Here if you get our lisence you will be excepted anywere."  They are basicilly saying your lisence is not good enough.

Now if the Exquaestio would have come to the Mirrish Goverment and tried to work out a deal.  One: they might have been able to create a united lisence both liked, but even if not that then Mir would not feel that they were sneaking behind its back and proble have excepted there licence as valid.  As it now stands Mir proble would just laught in their face until they actually try to contact the goverment about the issue.

Mir is fine with trying to licence Mages, they completly respect the various other orders, but when your start advertising it in Mir with out acutally talking to the goverment, and especially when Mir have a extremly strict licencing system themselves.  That is why they are upset.

Mir would not attack or punish innosent people.  (Now I will admite some of the factions, not including the current Archmage, aren't above discrediting, but they are not THAT worried.  They are just offended really.)

 

Jason Heaps


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--- Jefferson  wrote:

> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> 
> > It might be more accurate to say that Demerhaze has allied herself
> to 
> > Feroze for the moment--Demerhaze, like the moons, is changeable.
> 
> I'd rather not get into the motivations of the gods.  A general
> statement 
> about attitude won't become outdated as quickly.

Mm, good point.

> > It 
> > would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral
> due 
> > to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,
> 
> As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of 
> significance to Coron.  Since Feroze has agreed not to cause
> problems, Coron 
> has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical
> practices.  In 
> the page I've changed the description from "positive" to
> "cooperative."

Yeah, that's probably the best word.

> Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not
> as badly 
> as hostile deities.
> 
> > while 
> > Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact
> that 
> > her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take 
> > opposite positions on most issues.
> 
> Well, that isn't the only problem.  Among other things, in Celandra
> Feroze is 
> on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order). 
> Though 
> neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course. 
> They're 
> hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their
> differences 
> without a war.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Lucia's main concerns are
Justice and Truth, and while that does predispose her to support Order,
she also clearly recognizes that sometimes an existing Order may become
unjust and needs to be overturned.  However, she definitely prefers
order to chaos.

To put it in Babylon 5 terms, Lucia is like a Vorlon and Feroze is like
a Shadow(a gross oversimplification, of course).
 
> > As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic
> pretty 
> > well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the 
> > permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue
> with 
> > using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;
> 
> I don't think I'm familiar with this.  What's the issue?

Well, it depends on how Nuntus achieves the change--it's part and
parcel of the whole prohibition on reaching into someone's mind and
changing it without their consent.
 
> > and the Portus 
> > gleam should possibly be amended to reflect the Celandran
> prohibition on 
> > time-affecting magics.  Although, having said that, it occurs to me
> that 
> > preservation spells, depending on how they work, might in fact be
> an 
> > exception to that.
> 
> I can add, "This does not permit time travel" easily enough if you
> think it's 
> needed.  I was thinking more on the lines of haste, slow, and stasis
> for time 
> effects.  I also tend to think more in terms of "space-time" than
> separate 
> "space" and "time" so I automatically put the two down together.

Yeah, a prohibition on time-travel should go in. I think haste, slow,
and stasis should be allowable.  The time-magic prohibitions are
generally concerned with proibiting the obtaining of information about
other times, rather than the rate at which one thing progresses through
time.

Andrew
 
> > As far as formatting goes, it looks just fine to me, no wonkiness
> of any 
> > kind.
> 
> Good to know.  Thanks.
> 
> > Having read your stuff reminds me that I've been meaning to write 
> > something about the Torphani and what they believe. So far as I
> know, 
> > the only thing that's been stated to date is that the Torphani
> consider 
> > their Emperor to be a divine avatar--beyond that, nothing's been
> said.
> 
> With Millat Shanar in the north and Exquaestio in the south, I've
> been 
> thinking that it would fit the pattern for another new religion to
> have 
> recently appeared in the east (in Torphan).  From what I can tell,
> something 
> of a Buddhist nature might be appropriate for Torphan.
> 
> (Actually, I've sort of been assuming that Millat Shanar and
> Equaestio aren't 
> the only new religions in the area.  They're just the most
> successful, and 
> have been absorbing other divergent beliefs.  The new religion in
> Torphan 
> would be just as successful.)
> 
> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html
> 
> 
> 
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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>
>>>It 
>>>would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral
>>>due to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,
>>
>>As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of 
>>significance to Coron.  Since Feroze has agreed not to cause
>>problems, Coron 
>>has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical
>>practices.  In 
>>the page I've changed the description from "positive" to
>>"cooperative."
> 
> Yeah, that's probably the best word.

And one I should have thought of earlier, but I couldn't get the right term 
out.  FYI the degrees of friendliness are based on GURPS Sanctity levels and 
range from: Allied, Positive, Cooperative (no effects on magic), Neutral, and 
Hostile.  Enemy is worse than hostile, but does odd things to the magics 
involved since they are actively contesting instead of passively existing.

Does anyone know when the last major divine conflict was on Qaiyore?

>>Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not
>>as badly as hostile deities.
>>
>>>while 
>>>Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact
>>>that 
>>>her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take 
>>>opposite positions on most issues.
>>
>>Well, that isn't the only problem.  Among other things, in Celandra
>>Feroze is 
>>on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order). 
>>Though 
>>neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course. 
>>They're 
>>hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their
>>differences without a war.
> 
> I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Lucia's main concerns are
> Justice and Truth, and while that does predispose her to support Order,
> she also clearly recognizes that sometimes an existing Order may become
> unjust and needs to be overturned.  However, she definitely prefers
> order to chaos.
> 
> To put it in Babylon 5 terms, Lucia is like a Vorlon and Feroze is like
> a Shadow (a gross oversimplification, of course).

Both analogies are oversimplifications, but I think we're in essential agreement.

>>>As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic
>>>pretty 
>>>well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the 
>>>permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue
>>>with 
>>>using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;
>>
>>>I don't think I'm familiar with this.  What's the issue?
> 
> Well, it depends on how Nuntus achieves the change--it's part and
> parcel of the whole prohibition on reaching into someone's mind and
> changing it without their consent.

I've added, "All affects are strictly temporary."  That isn't the only limit, 
but it may be the only ones that can be stated easily.  I've also noted that 
Portus does not include time travel.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update

The Sinari war.  When you had Sin-Alb personally leading the Sinari Midsea.  the Eeriths own "god" Valor was involved, and Miracradsa came in an Avater (general assumed she represented the gods of the Dreaming in this matter).  Read the resutls for 1424 I beleave.  Also read http://members.tripod.com/~kimril/qaiyore/  and Keatons Speakers and Kings admitadly they are have diffrent endings.  The end results being Miracradsa avater sacraficed herself to kill Sin-Alb and redem her lost High priest, Valor sacraficed himself for his people, and to kill Alatta . Sin- Alb along with Alatta (sp) were whipped out of excitence.  (Both had once been mortals striving for Godhood.)  That is a VERY short version of the story.
 
For game purpose Keaton and myself agreed to run with the above link.  Speakers and Kings he stated is from a Eerith point of view and so facts are given from their perspective, and most importantly what was important to them.
 
Jason Heaps

Jefferson  wrote:
>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>
>>>It 
>>>would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral
>>>due to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,
>>
>>As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of 
>>significance to Coron. Since Feroze has agreed not to cause
>>problems, Coron 
>>has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical
>>practices. In 
>>the page I've changed the description from "positive" to
>>"cooperative."
> 
> Yeah, that's probably the best word.

And one I should have thought of earlier, but I couldn't get the right term 
out. FYI the degrees of friendliness are based on GURPS Sanctity levels and 
range from: Allied, Positive, Cooperative (no effects on magic), Neutral, and 
Hostile. Enemy is worse than hostile, but does odd things to the magics 
involved since they are actively contesting instead of passively existing.

Does anyone know when the last major divine conflict was on Qaiyore?

>>Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not
>>as badly as hostile deities.
>>
>>>while 
>>>Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact
>>>that 
>>>her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take 
>>>opposite positions on most issues.
>>
>>Well, that isn't the only problem. Among other things, in Celandra
>>Feroze is 
>>on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order). 
>>Though 
>>neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course. 
>>They're 
>>hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their
>>differences without a war.
> 
> I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Lucia's main concerns are
> Justice and Truth, and while that does predispose her to support Order,
> she also clearly recognizes that sometimes an existing Order may become
> unjust and needs to be overturned. However, she definitely prefers
> order to chaos.
> 
> To put it in Babylon 5 terms, Lucia is like a Vorlon and Feroze is like
> a Shadow (a gross oversimplification, of course).

Both analogies are oversimplifications, but I think we're in essential agreement.

>>>As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic
>>>pretty 
>>>well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the 
>>>permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue
>>>with 
>>>using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;
>>
>>>I don't think I'm familiar with this. What's the issue?
> 
> Well, it depends on how Nuntus achieves the change--it's part and
> parcel of the whole prohibition on reaching into someone's mind and
> changing it without their consent.

I've added, "All affects are strictly temporary." That isn't the only limit, 
but it may be the only ones that can be stated easily. I've also noted that 
Portus does not include time travel.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update and then MK goes totally off-topic

Yep.  With the book, I took some liberties to make a tighter ending (I
wanted the book to end and to stand alone), although I would argue that
Sin-Alb was not, originally mortal but that has no bearing on the state of
the game.  As it pertains to Lucia, don't forget that Lucia and the Oracle
played strong roles in the war as at least tactical allies against Albous.

On an unrelated, personal note, my apolgogies for not being around and not
being more actively involved in the game.  My "real" writing career is
keeping me very busy and I'm starting the process of selling my house and
moving.  For the short term, I may actually be less available, at least
until I get settled in.  It will be a few months before the move and I'll
let you all know my new e-mail and website when the time comes.

Just to let everyone know, as a result of my convention schedule over the
past years, S&K is now in the hands of several "real" writers such as Neil
Gaiman, Will Shetterly, Emma Bull, Phil Rosette, and Stephanie
Bedwell-Grimes.  Great folks and good writers all; I recommend whatever they
write and if you ever get the chance to hear Emma Bull sing TAKE IT!  She's
really good.  I'm always hesitant to talk about things like that on the list
because it seems like self-promotion but I figured you guys would be as
excited about it as I am.

As long as I'm off-topic, does anyone know what ever happened to the Aria 2
project?  I lost track it but I'm still doing lectures on the monomyth and I
still want to see a real and integrated version of the two Aria rulesets
with a gameplay emphasis on the monomyth.

Thanks everybody,
MKeaton

PS:  A few of you have asked so I'll answer here:  Yes, the rough draft of
my next novel (non-game related) is done.  It's still in a rough form but if
anyone wants to read it and comment, let me know and I'll e-mail it to you.
The draft is about 50K words and I haven't started shopping it to publishers
yet--I think it still needs something and I'm not sure what.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Heaps" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update


> The Sinari war.  When you had Sin-Alb personally leading the Sinari
Midsea.  the Eeriths own "god" Valor was involved, and Miracradsa came in an
Avater (general assumed she represented the gods of the Dreaming in this
matter).  Read the resutls for 1424 I beleave.  Also read
http://members.tripod.com/~kimril/qaiyore/  and Keatons Speakers and Kings
admitadly they are have diffrent endings.  The end results being Miracradsa
avater sacraficed herself to kill Sin-Alb and redem her lost High priest,
Valor sacraficed himself for his people, and to kill Alatta . Sin- Alb along
with Alatta (sp) were whipped out of excitence.  (Both had once been mortals
striving for Godhood.)  That is a VERY short version of the story.
>
> For game purpose Keaton and myself agreed to run with the above link.
Speakers and Kings he stated is from a Eerith point of view and so facts are
given from their perspective, and most importantly what was important to
them.
>
> Jason Heaps
>
> Jefferson  wrote:
> >>Andrew Janssen wrote:
> >>
> >>>It
> >>>would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral
> >>>due to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,
> >>
> >>As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of
> >>significance to Coron. Since Feroze has agreed not to cause
> >>problems, Coron
> >>has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical
> >>practices. In
> >>the page I've changed the description from "positive" to
> >>"cooperative."
> >
> > Yeah, that's probably the best word.
>
> And one I should have thought of earlier, but I couldn't get the right
term
> out. FYI the degrees of friendliness are based on GURPS Sanctity levels
and
> range from: Allied, Positive, Cooperative (no effects on magic), Neutral,
and
> Hostile. Enemy is worse than hostile, but does odd things to the magics
> involved since they are actively contesting instead of passively existing.
>
> Does anyone know when the last major divine conflict was on Qaiyore?
>
> >>Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not
> >>as badly as hostile deities.
> >>
> >>>while
> >>>Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact
> >>>that
> >>>her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take
> >>>opposite positions on most issues.
> >>
> >>Well, that isn't the only problem. Among other things, in Celandra
> >>Feroze is
> >>on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order).
> >>Though
> >>neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course.
> >>They're
> >>hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their
> >>differences without a war.
> >
> > I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Lucia's main concerns are
> > Justice and Truth, and while that does predispose her to support Order,
> > she also clearly recognizes that sometimes an existing Order may become
> > unjust and needs to be overturned. However, she definitely prefers
> > order to chaos.
> >
> > To put it in Babylon 5 terms, Lucia is like a Vorlon and Feroze is like
> > a Shadow (a gross oversimplification, of course).
>
> Both analogies are oversimplifications, but I think we're in essential
agreement.
>
> >>>As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic
> >>>pretty
> >>>well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the
> >>>permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue
> >>>with
> >>>using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;
> >>
> >>>I don't think I'm familiar with this. What's the issue?
> >
> > Well, it depends on how Nuntus achieves the change--it's part and
> > parcel of the whole prohibition on reaching into someone's mind and
> > changing it without their consent.
>
> I've added, "All affects are strictly temporary." That isn't the only
limit,
> but it may be the only ones that can be stated easily. I've also noted
that
> Portus does not include time travel.
>
> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
>
>
>
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[Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update and then MK goes totally off-topic

That's neat. I hope things go well for you with your writing. Neil 
Gaiman actually lives fairly close to where I do, on the other side of 
the county line. I saw his house once. I've never read anything that 
Emma Bull has done solo, but I did read _Freedom & Necessity_, which she 
wrote with Steven Brust.

As to your postscript, I'd love to give your draft novel a read.

Andrew

MKeaton, Archangel Press wrote:
> Yep.  With the book, I took some liberties to make a tighter ending (I
> wanted the book to end and to stand alone), although I would argue that
> Sin-Alb was not, originally mortal but that has no bearing on the state of
> the game.  As it pertains to Lucia, don't forget that Lucia and the Oracle
> played strong roles in the war as at least tactical allies against Albous.
> 
> On an unrelated, personal note, my apolgogies for not being around and not
> being more actively involved in the game.  My "real" writing career is
> keeping me very busy and I'm starting the process of selling my house and
> moving.  For the short term, I may actually be less available, at least
> until I get settled in.  It will be a few months before the move and I'll
> let you all know my new e-mail and website when the time comes.
> 
> Just to let everyone know, as a result of my convention schedule over the
> past years, S&K is now in the hands of several "real" writers such as Neil
> Gaiman, Will Shetterly, Emma Bull, Phil Rosette, and Stephanie
> Bedwell-Grimes.  Great folks and good writers all; I recommend whatever they
> write and if you ever get the chance to hear Emma Bull sing TAKE IT!  She's
> really good.  I'm always hesitant to talk about things like that on the list
> because it seems like self-promotion but I figured you guys would be as
> excited about it as I am.
> 
> As long as I'm off-topic, does anyone know what ever happened to the Aria 2
> project?  I lost track it but I'm still doing lectures on the monomyth and I
> still want to see a real and integrated version of the two Aria rulesets
> with a gameplay emphasis on the monomyth.
> 
> Thanks everybody,
> MKeaton
> 
> PS:  A few of you have asked so I'll answer here:  Yes, the rough draft of
> my next novel (non-game related) is done.  It's still in a rough form but if
> anyone wants to read it and comment, let me know and I'll e-mail it to you.
> The draft is about 50K words and I haven't started shopping it to publishers
> yet--I think it still needs something and I'm not sure what.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Heaps" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cel] [Site] Exquaestio Update
> 
> 
> 
>>The Sinari war.  When you had Sin-Alb personally leading the Sinari
> 
> Midsea.  the Eeriths own "god" Valor was involved, and Miracradsa came in an
> Avater (general assumed she represented the gods of the Dreaming in this
> matter).  Read the resutls for 1424 I beleave.  Also read
> http://members.tripod.com/~kimril/qaiyore/  and Keatons Speakers and Kings
> admitadly they are have diffrent endings.  The end results being Miracradsa
> avater sacraficed herself to kill Sin-Alb and redem her lost High priest,
> Valor sacraficed himself for his people, and to kill Alatta . Sin- Alb along
> with Alatta (sp) were whipped out of excitence.  (Both had once been mortals
> striving for Godhood.)  That is a VERY short version of the story.
> 
>>For game purpose Keaton and myself agreed to run with the above link.
> 
> Speakers and Kings he stated is from a Eerith point of view and so facts are
> given from their perspective, and most importantly what was important to
> them.
> 
>>Jason Heaps
>>
>>Jefferson  wrote:
>>
>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It
>>>>>would also be more accurate to describe Coron's attitude as neutral
>>>>>due to a fundamental disagreement on the reincarnation of souls,
>>>>
>>>>As I see things, for the moment Feroze has yielded on all issues of
>>>>significance to Coron. Since Feroze has agreed not to cause
>>>>problems, Coron
>>>>has in turn agreed not to interfere with Exquaestio's magical
>>>>practices. In
>>>>the page I've changed the description from "positive" to
>>>>"cooperative."
>>>
>>>Yeah, that's probably the best word.
>>
>>And one I should have thought of earlier, but I couldn't get the right
> 
> term
> 
>>out. FYI the degrees of friendliness are based on GURPS Sanctity levels
> 
> and
> 
>>range from: Allied, Positive, Cooperative (no effects on magic), Neutral,
> 
> and
> 
>>Hostile. Enemy is worse than hostile, but does odd things to the magics
>>involved since they are actively contesting instead of passively existing.
>>
>>Does anyone know when the last major divine conflict was on Qaiyore?
>>
>>
>>>>Note that neutral deities _do_ interfere with espiri magic, just not
>>>>as badly as hostile deities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>while
>>>>>Lucia's negativity towards Feroze is largely a result of the fact
>>>>>that
>>>>>her sister, Demerhaze, is allied with Feroze--the two tend to take
>>>>>opposite positions on most issues.
>>>>
>>>>Well, that isn't the only problem. Among other things, in Celandra
>>>>Feroze is
>>>>on the side of Change (Chaos) and Lucia is on the Stability (Order).
>>>>Though
>>>>neither _want_ a war, both can see they are on a collision course.
>>>>They're
>>>>hoping that something will come up to permit them to settle their
>>>>differences without a war.
>>>
>>>I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Lucia's main concerns are
>>>Justice and Truth, and while that does predispose her to support Order,
>>>she also clearly recognizes that sometimes an existing Order may become
>>>unjust and needs to be overturned. However, she definitely prefers
>>>order to chaos.
>>>
>>>To put it in Babylon 5 terms, Lucia is like a Vorlon and Feroze is like
>>>a Shadow (a gross oversimplification, of course).
>>
>>Both analogies are oversimplifications, but I think we're in essential
> 
> agreement.
> 
>>>>>As far as magic goes, we hashed out the nature of rohain magic
>>>>>pretty
>>>>>well some months ago, so no issues there, at least as far as the
>>>>>permitted effects go. For espiri magic, there might be an issue
>>>>>with
>>>>>using the Nuntus gleam to cause emotions in another;
>>>>
>>>>>I don't think I'm familiar with this. What's the issue?
>>>
>>>Well, it depends on how Nuntus achieves the change--it's part and
>>>parcel of the whole prohibition on reaching into someone's mind and
>>>changing it without their consent.
>>
>>I've added, "All affects are strictly temporary." That isn't the only
> 
> limit,
>