Juuso, Andrew and I are suffering from a fundamental disagreement on the level of technology on Qaiyore. I've posted the relevent pages from _Aria_ on the website so that we can all be looking at the same information. The difference seems to lie in what the advanced metallurgic technological base constitutes. Is it 12 on "Dominant Materials" or 15 on "Power & Manufacturing?" I'm afraid we need a definative ruling. Jefferson (Exquaestio) http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Probably on the verge of 13 on the Miscelaneous Innovations Scale, at 12 on the Dominant Materials Scale, and a lower 14 on the Power Sources and Manufacturing Innovation Scale. Such technology discussions should also probably involve discussion on education, politics and economics. In medieval and Renaissance Europe, developments in either affected the other. Ibrahim Jefferson wrote: >Juuso, > >Andrew and I are suffering from a fundamental disagreement on the level of >technology on Qaiyore. I've posted the relevent pages from _Aria_ on the >website so that we can all be looking at the same information. The difference >seems to lie in what the advanced metallurgic technological base constitutes. > Is it 12 on "Dominant Materials" or 15 on "Power & Manufacturing?" I'm >afraid we need a definative ruling. > >Jefferson (Exquaestio) >http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > > ================================ Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer ================================ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Also, what about the technology of the Vraal? Did they arrive without any of their own indigenous technology? If they did bring technology from their homeworld, what was it like, and is it transferable to other Qaiyorean societies (and has it been transferred at all?). This is potentially a wilcard in terms of technological development, as it represents a society not indigenous to Celandra as a whole. Ibrahim ibrahim wrote: >Probably on the verge of 13 on the Miscelaneous Innovations Scale, at 12 >on the Dominant Materials Scale, and a lower 14 on the Power Sources >and Manufacturing Innovation Scale. > >Such technology discussions should also probably involve discussion on >education, politics and economics. In medieval and Renaissance Europe, >developments in either affected the other. > >Ibrahim > >Jefferson wrote: > > > >>Juuso, >> >>Andrew and I are suffering from a fundamental disagreement on the level of >>technology on Qaiyore. I've posted the relevent pages from _Aria_ on the >>website so that we can all be looking at the same information. The difference >>seems to lie in what the advanced metallurgic technological base constitutes. >> Is it 12 on "Dominant Materials" or 15 on "Power & Manufacturing?" I'm >>afraid we need a definative ruling. >> >>Jefferson (Exquaestio) >>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >================================ >Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer >================================ >This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > >================================ >Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer >================================ >This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. > > > > > ================================ Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer ================================ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
ibrahim wrote: > Also, what about the technology of the Vraal? Did they arrive without > any of their own indigenous technology? If they did bring technology > from their homeworld, what was it like, and is it transferable to other > Qaiyorean societies (and has it been transferred at all?). Technology from another part of Dreaming is usually not transferrable, certainly not advanced technology, since advanced technology so often means heavy reliance on the local magical/physical conditions. Most will-based magic is transferrable, barring that it's usually harder to perform on Celandra. Some of authority-based magic is also directly usable. But some (the "localised" part of it) is totally unusable. > This is potentially a wilcard in terms of technological development, as > it represents a society not indigenous to Celandra as a whole. There are other Dreaming-based people on Celandra besides the Vraal. And no, they haven't had much impact technologically, either. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Jefferson wrote: > Juuso, > > Andrew and I are suffering from a fundamental disagreement on the level of > technology on Qaiyore. I've posted the relevent pages from _Aria_ on the > website so that we can all be looking at the same information. The difference > seems to lie in what the advanced metallurgic technological base constitutes. First thing here is that I really don't like Aria's technological scales. They reflect too much the historical technological paths, and have no allowance at all for magical developments or alternate paths. That said, they do have value in showing the general structure. In terms of technology, my principle is that anything that doesn't conflict with the history, and is consistent with the feel of the period is ok. If I have to use the Aria scales, here goes: Dominant materials: level 12 at least for advanced societies on Qaiyore, level 10 for less advanced. Like Andrew said, the high tech might reach upto 15. But that technology is not very mature yet. Power & manufactoring: mostly level 13, but localized technological innovations upto level 15 exist. If someone suggested a windmills, I wouldn't say no immediately. Agriculture: *very* dependent on the culture, from 10 to 20. Use of magic (whether effective or not) prevalent. Building and construction: dependent on the culture, from 10 to 20, but mostly upto 13. Most fantastical buildings constructed with the aid of magic. Transport and communication: level 15, individual societies may reach upto 17. No astrolabe or quadrant, though. Military: dependent on the culture, from 10 to 19. No gunpowder, though. Misc.: mostly upto 12. Frequent individual innovations upto 20. Mostly with the aid of magic, though. I hope this clarified things. If not, ask for more. juuso ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Juha Vesanto wrote: > Jefferson wrote: > >>Andrew and I are suffering from a fundamental disagreement on the level of >>technology on Qaiyore. I've posted the relevent pages from _Aria_ on the >>website so that we can all be looking at the same information. The difference >>seems to lie in what the advanced metallurgic technological base constitutes. > > First thing here is that I really don't like Aria's technological > scales. They reflect too much the historical technological paths, Not too much way of avoiding that, but that history is exclusively european, and ignoring China creates quite a few problems. I also don't like the bias towards architecture, and in a few places the scales are simply _wrong_. > and have no allowance at all for magical developments or alternate > paths. That said, they do have value in showing the general structure. And put us all on the same page for discussion purposes. I have my own tech scale, which can be found at http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/devrate.htm My Development ratings are a work in progress and I welcome comments. There have been some major revisions recently, so there are likely some omissions or contradictions that I would welcome help finding. > In terms of technology, my principle is that anything that doesn't > conflict with the history, and is consistent with the feel of the > period is ok. > > If I have to use the Aria scales, here goes: > > Dominant materials: level 12 at least for advanced societies on Qaiyore, > level 10 for less advanced. Like Andrew said, the high tech might reach > upto 15. But that technology is not very mature yet. OK. That's what was confusing me. I place "advanced metallurgy" much earlier on the tech scale. Certainly at materials 12 crossbows are not difficult to manufacture, though they may not be economic. > Power & manufactoring: mostly level 13, but localized technological > innovations upto level 15 exist. If someone suggested a windmills, > I wouldn't say no immediately. OK. That's where I thought things were. > Agriculture: *very* dependent on the culture, from 10 to 20. Use of > magic (whether effective or not) prevalent. > > Building and construction: dependent on the culture, from 10 to 20, > but mostly upto 13. Most fantastical buildings constructed with the aid > of magic. OK, basically 13, but with magical improvements allowing 20 in some cases? > Transport and communication: level 15, individual societies may reach > upto 17. No astrolabe or quadrant, though. > > Military: dependent on the culture, from 10 to 19. No gunpowder, though. > > Misc.: mostly upto 12. Frequent individual innovations upto 20. Mostly > with the aid of magic, though. > > I hope this clarified things. If not, ask for more. Yep. I was judging things much lower, at around 1100 Europe. Instead, things are closer to 1400 Europe. On my tech rating system (see above) that's a major difference (2.8 to 3.8). Which means that clear glass is available (though spectacles have not been invented) along with double entry bookkeeping and positional mathematics. What about spinning wheels, mathematical symbology, and mechanical clocks? Jefferson http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
