[Cel] [World] Meridians

I've developed an overlay for the Qaiyore map which shows lines of latitude 
and longitude.  A sample map can be found at 
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/quaiyore2.gif

If this looks good, I'll pass the overlay to Andrew to add to the master map. 
  (What format would you prefer Andrew?)

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Jefferson wrote:
> I've developed an overlay for the Qaiyore map which shows lines of latitude 
> and longitude.  A sample map can be found at 
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/quaiyore2.gif
> 
> If this looks good, I'll pass the overlay to Andrew to add to the master map. 
>   (What format would you prefer Andrew?)

I can work with nearly any format, GIF, JPEG, BMP, etc. Unfortunately, 
when I went to look at the overlay, I got a 404 File Not Found page instead.

Andrew

> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
> 
> 
> 
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Andrew Janssen wrote:
> Jefferson wrote:
> 
>>I've developed an overlay for the Qaiyore map which shows lines of latitude 
>>and longitude.  A sample map can be found at 
>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/quaiyore2.gif
>>
>>If this looks good, I'll pass the overlay to Andrew to add to the master map. 
>>  (What format would you prefer Andrew?)
> 
> I can work with nearly any format, GIF, JPEG, BMP, etc. Unfortunately, 
> when I went to look at the overlay, I got a 404 File Not Found page instead.

Oops.  I put an extra u in.  It should be 
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/qaiyore2.gif

Sorry.

Jefferson


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Jefferson wrote:
> Oops.  I put an extra u in.  It should be 
> http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/qaiyore2.gif

Hmmm... that was utterly cool. Would it be possible to make a
similar map of Elyria?

juuso
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Juha Vesanto wrote:
> Jefferson wrote:
> 
>>Oops.  I put an extra u in.  It should be 
>>http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/qaiyore2.gif
> 
> Hmmm... that was utterly cool. Would it be possible to make a
> similar map of Elyria?

Ahhh.  It's _possible_, but . . .

The problem is that I'm just not familiar enough with Elyria to know where to 
draw the meridians.  Elyria's map has a significant area of land "beyond" the 
equator, so the interrupted polar projection I used for Qaiyore isn't 
suitable.  Some form of Sinusoidal projection is probably most appropriate, 
but I'd have to figure out how a standard sinusoidal projection is drawn 
first.  Then I'd have to figure out where errors and distortions are most 
acceptable.  (Placement in Qaiyore was determined by the southern cold zone 
and a cold Tanimbar.)  Niether is easy.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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Andrew Janssen wrote:
> This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
> extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
> continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
> sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.

Yes, that is the case. But from Hisaria you would reach (first)
the eastern parts of the Tyrean empire. And from Celpalar the Gezor
region, or north from there Aloria, Reycelan, etc. Two *very*
different cultures which hardly know of each other.

> Anyway, I've posted the merged map to the Website. Be warned, it's over
> 6 MB as a .gif file, so you'll have to click on the link.  Aside from
> some cropping, marking the equator, and marking the approximate region
> of the Avaerean Islands, I haven't made any changes.

If the equator is the straight black line in the middle, it is 
inconsistent with the Meridean maps (unless I'm reading Jeff's
maps wrong).

juuso
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Juha Vesanto wrote:
> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> 
>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
> 
> Yes, that is the case. But from Hisaria you would reach (first)
> the eastern parts of the Tyrean empire. And from Celpalar the Gezor
> region, or north from there Aloria, Reycelan, etc. Two *very*
> different cultures which hardly know of each other.
> 
>>Anyway, I've posted the merged map to the Website. Be warned, it's over
>>6 MB as a .gif file, so you'll have to click on the link.  Aside from
>>some cropping, marking the equator, and marking the approximate region
>>of the Avaerean Islands, I haven't made any changes.
> 
> If the equator is the straight black line in the middle, it is 
> inconsistent with the Meridean maps (unless I'm reading Jeff's
> maps wrong).

Yes, but since it's just supposed to give a rough idea of the relative 
positions of the two areas I don't see that as a problem.  While it would be 
interesting to run the maps through a graphics program to turn their 
equal-area projections into conformal projections, I doubt the results would 
be worth the effort.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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Jefferson wrote:
> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> 
>> The meridians look fine, the only qualm I have is the way that it 
>> messes up the ability to calculate areas & distances. The original map 
>> was a "flat-world" map, but we've already decided that Celandra's an 
>> oblate spheroid.  There also may be some scaling issues--the current 
>> map was drawn on a one pixel= 25 sq.mi., and suddenly making it a 
>> spherical projection changes things drasticly.
> 
> 
> Nothing changes in terms of scaling; that's the reason for all the 
> curves. One pixel is still 25 square miles and ten pixels still measure 
> 200 miles. The fact that we were using the map as as equal-area 
> projection is what made drawing the merdians neccesary (at least to 
> me).  One thing thing I discovered though, is that Celandra has 21% more 
> surface area than our earth (10% larger radius) though I have no idea if 
> that affects your calculations.  There are some errors because the line 
> of latitude are perfect circles (they should curve inward so that the 
> lines of longitude are of equal length), but I don't have the time (or a 
> good enough graphic program) to fix what's a very minor problem in the 
> projection range of this map.

[Note: I orginally sent this to just Jeff, but it's got some stuff in it 
that everyone should read.]

Hmm. After playing with the combined maps of Qaiyore & Elyria, I get a
pole-to-pole distance of 2696 pixels, or 13,480 miles, giving a polar
circumference of 26,960 miles and a radius of 4290.8 miles, closer to
108% of Earth's radius than 110%.

This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.

Anyway, I've posted the merged map to the Website. Be warned, it's over
6 MB as a .gif file, so you'll have to click on the link.  Aside from
some cropping, marking the equator, and marking the approximate region
of the Avaerean Islands, I haven't made any changes.

Andrew

> Jefferson (Exquaestio)
> 
> 
> 



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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Andrew Janssen wrote:

>[Note: I orginally sent this to just Jeff, but it's got some stuff in it 
>that everyone should read.]
>
>Hmm. After playing with the combined maps of Qaiyore & Elyria, I get a
>pole-to-pole distance of 2696 pixels, or 13,480 miles, giving a polar
>circumference of 26,960 miles and a radius of 4290.8 miles, closer to
>108% of Earth's radius than 110%.
>
>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>  
>
Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
the two continents?



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Ibrahim wrote:

>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>
>  
>
>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>the two continents?
>
>  
>
Sorry, not clear enough.  I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria.  Given the technological levels of 
both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).

Ibrahim

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ibrahim wrote:
> Ibrahim wrote:
> 
> 
>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>
>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>the two continents?
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> Sorry, not clear enough.  I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
> travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria.  Given the technological levels of 
> both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
> (with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).

It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
to Reyceylan.

Andrew

> Ibrahim
> 
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
 
Jason Heaps


Andrew Janssen  wrote:
ibrahim wrote:
> Ibrahim wrote:
> 
> 
>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>the two continents?
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
> travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
> both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
> (with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).

It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
to Reyceylan.

Andrew

> Ibrahim
> 
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
years ago game-time.

Jason Heaps wrote:

>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
> 
>Jason Heaps
>
>
>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>ibrahim wrote:
>  
>
>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>the two continents?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>    
>>
>
>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>to Reyceylan.
>
>Andrew
>
>  
>
>>Ibrahim
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

I thought that most of the Avaeran island chain got obliterated back 
when Ardalor IX took on Mir and lost, over 2000 years ago, and that 
trade between the two continents was down to almost nothing, even before 
Gezor fell to the toads.

Andrew

ibrahim wrote:
> I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
> years ago game-time.
> 
> Jason Heaps wrote:
> 
> 
>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>
>>Jason Heaps
>>
>>
>>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>>ibrahim wrote:
>> 
>>
>>
>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>the two continents?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>   
>>>
>>
>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>to Reyceylan.
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>>Ibrahim
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Oh, ok.  My mistake - confused that with something else.  Something else 
happened a couple of years ago real-time (1430s game time?)?  I recall 
the map was rewritten after a destructive tidal wave destroyed many 
coastal areas.  It was right after the Sinari conflict I think?  I think 
the tidal wave cut off the last link with Elyria.....

Ibrahim

Andrew Janssen wrote:

>I thought that most of the Avaeran island chain got obliterated back 
>when Ardalor IX took on Mir and lost, over 2000 years ago, and that 
>trade between the two continents was down to almost nothing, even before 
>Gezor fell to the toads.
>
>Andrew
>
>ibrahim wrote:
>  
>
>>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>>years ago game-time.
>>
>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>>
>>>Jason Heaps
>>>
>>>
>>>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>>the two continents?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>>to Reyceylan.
>>>
>>>Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Ibrahim
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

ibrahim wrote:

> Oh, ok.  My mistake - confused that with something else.  Something else 
> happened a couple of years ago real-time (1430s game time?)?  I recall 
> the map was rewritten after a destructive tidal wave destroyed many 
> coastal areas.  It was right after the Sinari conflict I think?  I think 
> the tidal wave cut off the last link with Elyria.....
> 
> Ibrahim

Yeah, when Miracradsa and the Eerith gave Sin-Alb and Alatta the old 
heave-ho, the map got rearranged. However, I don't think the Avaeran 
islands were affected, but I could be wrong. Regardless, it was the 
obliteration of Rian a'Avaerand and the fall of Gezor that cut off the 
two continents.

In terms of technology, it's been established that Qaiyoreans aren't 
very interested in the stars, which has a detrimental effect on 
navigation technology.

Andrew

> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> 
> 
>>I thought that most of the Avaeran island chain got obliterated back 
>>when Ardalor IX took on Mir and lost, over 2000 years ago, and that 
>>trade between the two continents was down to almost nothing, even before 
>>Gezor fell to the toads.
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>>ibrahim wrote:
>> 
>>
>>
>>>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>>>years ago game-time.
>>>
>>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>>>
>>>>Jason Heaps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>>>the two continents?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>>>to Reyceylan.
>>>>
>>>>Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ibrahim
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>
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>>>>Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Most coast swamps finished sinking into the water was the largest part.  A few island in the immediate area got leveled.  Most of the Avearan island did sink back 2000 years ago.
 
Jason Heaps

Andrew Janssen  wrote:
ibrahim wrote:

> Oh, ok. My mistake - confused that with something else. Something else 
> happened a couple of years ago real-time (1430s game time?)? I recall 
> the map was rewritten after a destructive tidal wave destroyed many 
> coastal areas. It was right after the Sinari conflict I think? I think 
> the tidal wave cut off the last link with Elyria.....
> 
> Ibrahim

Yeah, when Miracradsa and the Eerith gave Sin-Alb and Alatta the old 
heave-ho, the map got rearranged. However, I don't think the Avaeran 
islands were affected, but I could be wrong. Regardless, it was the 
obliteration of Rian a'Avaerand and the fall of Gezor that cut off the 
two continents.

In terms of technology, it's been established that Qaiyoreans aren't 
very interested in the stars, which has a detrimental effect on 
navigation technology.

Andrew

> Andrew Janssen wrote:
> 
> 
>>I thought that most of the Avaeran island chain got obliterated back 
>>when Ardalor IX took on Mir and lost, over 2000 years ago, and that 
>>trade between the two continents was down to almost nothing, even before 
>>Gezor fell to the toads.
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>>ibrahim wrote:
>> 
>>
>>
>>>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>>>years ago game-time.
>>>
>>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other. What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people. So it may be because of magic. it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much. Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology. Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>>>
>>>>Jason Heaps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>>>the two continents?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>>>to Reyceylan.
>>>>
>>>>Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ibrahim
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
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>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
>>>>Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
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>>>================================
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---------------------------------
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
 Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ----------------------------------------------------------------
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

I mentioned this originally because of the prospect of inter-continental 
ocean travel, and whether navigational aids such as a sextant existed 
(probably a sextant is too sophisticated though).

Eric the Red did make it across to New Foundland, pre-modern history has 
a number of other pre-historical exceptional acts of navigation.

Perhaps skilled explorers could make the trip, if well-prepared, but 
traders?

Ibrahim

Jason Heaps wrote:

>Most coast swamps finished sinking into the water was the largest part.  A few island in the immediate area got leveled.  Most of the Avearan island did sink back 2000 years ago.
> 
>Jason Heaps
>
>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>ibrahim wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Oh, ok. My mistake - confused that with something else. Something else 
>>happened a couple of years ago real-time (1430s game time?)? I recall 
>>the map was rewritten after a destructive tidal wave destroyed many 
>>coastal areas. It was right after the Sinari conflict I think? I think 
>>the tidal wave cut off the last link with Elyria.....
>>
>>Ibrahim
>>    
>>
>
>Yeah, when Miracradsa and the Eerith gave Sin-Alb and Alatta the old 
>heave-ho, the map got rearranged. However, I don't think the Avaeran 
>islands were affected, but I could be wrong. Regardless, it was the 
>obliteration of Rian a'Avaerand and the fall of Gezor that cut off the 
>two continents.
>
>In terms of technology, it's been established that Qaiyoreans aren't 
>very interested in the stars, which has a detrimental effect on 
>navigation technology.
>
>Andrew
>
>  
>
>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I thought that most of the Avaeran island chain got obliterated back 
>>>when Ardalor IX took on Mir and lost, over 2000 years ago, and that 
>>>trade between the two continents was down to almost nothing, even before 
>>>Gezor fell to the toads.
>>>
>>>Andrew
>>>
>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>>>>years ago game-time.
>>>>
>>>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other. What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people. So it may be because of magic. it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much. Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology. Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jason Heaps
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>>>>the two continents?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>>>>to Reyceylan.
>>>>>
>>>>>Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ibrahim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>>Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
>>>>>Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>================================
>>>>Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer 
>>>>================================
>>>>This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and contains information that is privileged and confidential. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. Thank you.
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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================================
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================================
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[Cel] [World] Meridians - counter continent

Another oceanic thought - if the general geography of qaiyore and elyria 
are known to the wise in both continents, then there are probably 
theories or rumours regarding the idea of a counter continent out in the 
western ocean.  Whether or not it exists (probably not), people might 
try to find it, under the right circumstances - so ships purposefully 
sailing off into the west might be a phenomenon (a mythical western 
continent might be confused with the lost Avaeran civilisation).

Ibrahim

Jason Heaps wrote:

>Most coast swamps finished sinking into the water was the largest part.  A few island in the immediate area got leveled.  Most of the Avearan island did sink back 2000 years ago.
> 
>Jason Heaps
>
>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>ibrahim wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Oh, ok. My mistake - confused that with something else. Something else 
>>happened a couple of years ago real-time (1430s game time?)? I recall 
>>the map was rewritten after a destructive tidal wave destroyed many 
>>coastal areas. It was right after the Sinari conflict I think? I think 
>>the tidal wave cut off the last link with Elyria.....
>>
>>Ibrahim
>>    
>>
>
>Yeah, when Miracradsa and the Eerith gave Sin-Alb and Alatta the old 
>heave-ho, the map got rearranged. However, I don't think the Avaeran 
>islands were affected, but I could be wrong. Regardless, it was the 
>obliteration of Rian a'Avaerand and the fall of Gezor that cut off the 
>two continents.
>
>In terms of technology, it's been established that Qaiyoreans aren't 
>very interested in the stars, which has a detrimental effect on 
>navigation technology.
>
>Andrew
>
>  
>
>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I thought that most of the Avaeran island chain got obliterated back 
>>>when Ardalor IX took on Mir and lost, over 2000 years ago, and that 
>>>trade between the two continents was down to almost nothing, even before 
>>>Gezor fell to the toads.
>>>
>>>Andrew
>>>
>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>>>>years ago game-time.
>>>>
>>>>Jason Heaps wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other. What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people. So it may be because of magic. it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much. Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology. Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jason Heaps
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>ibrahim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>>>>the two continents?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>>>>to Reyceylan.
>>>>>
>>>>>Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ibrahim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>>Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
>>>>>Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>================================
>>>>Confidentiality Statement and Disclaimer 
>>>>================================
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>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>================================
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[Cel] [World] Meridians - counter continent

ibrahim wrote:
> Another oceanic thought - if the general geography of qaiyore and elyria 
> are known to the wise in both continents, then there are probably 
> theories or rumours regarding the idea of a counter continent out in the 
> western ocean.  Whether or not it exists (probably not), people might 
> try to find it, under the right circumstances - so ships purposefully 
> sailing off into the west might be a phenomenon (a mythical western 
> continent might be confused with the lost Avaeran civilisation).

Actually, on Elyria, Reycelan island kings made some attempts on that
30-50 years back gametime. But their attempts didn't really reach
properly even the southern coasts of the continent.

juuso

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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Jason Heaps wrote:
> Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.

I would say that sailing between the two continents
is marginally possible. But the knowledge of the routes
has been long forgotten. And for a long time now there
hasn't been much reason to do any trade. Also note that
before the cataclysm of the Avarean islands, the primary
routes went that way. With their destruction, the
routes were lost. And the area got bad reputation anyway:
it was bad luck to sail north.

So, it is (just) possible. But currently, there's no
real reason why anyone would want to do it.

juuso
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Sorry, not being clear here.  I have been talking about the idea that it 
is probably impossible given current Qaiyorean and Elyrian technology 
levels to cross the oceanic gap between the two continents.

Previously, the Avaeran island chain had allowed for passage between 
two, but with their destruction, that is now impossible.

Therefore, while there has been no technology backslide, the technology 
levels are probably not high enough to allow the passage.

Ibrahim

ibrahim wrote:

>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>years ago game-time.
>
>Jason Heaps wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other.  What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people.  So it may be because of magic.  it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much.  Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology.  Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>
>>Jason Heaps
>>
>>
>>Andrew Janssen  wrote:
>>ibrahim wrote:
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>the two continents?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>to Reyceylan.
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Ibrahim
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>
>>		
>>---------------------------------
>>Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! 
>>Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
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>================================
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

It was not the avaeran chain that created the trade with Gezor.  Look on the Elyria map it show the outline of the old gezor/celpalar trade.   The Avearan Empire and Qaiyore never got along so trade would not have come through them  The Avearan Empire looked at Qaiyore as expansion/territory.  Not to mention the mainland Elyrian Empire and the island did not play well since the real rulers were on the mainland and the Island Emperors were stewards who had claimed the throne.
 
While I don't think it would be easy.  I think that the technology is there for contact between the two contenents.  Also admited magic would make it easyer.  Not easy but just easyer.
 
Jason Heaps

ibrahim  wrote:
Sorry, not being clear here. I have been talking about the idea that it 
is probably impossible given current Qaiyorean and Elyrian technology 
levels to cross the oceanic gap between the two continents.

Previously, the Avaeran island chain had allowed for passage between 
two, but with their destruction, that is now impossible.

Therefore, while there has been no technology backslide, the technology 
levels are probably not high enough to allow the passage.

Ibrahim

ibrahim wrote:

>I thought it was the destruction of the Avaeran island chain about 20 
>years ago game-time.
>
>Jason Heaps wrote:
>
> 
>
>>Gezor and Celpalar two thousand years ago were trading with each other. What finally closed the trade routes was the destruction of Gezor by the toad people. So it may be because of magic. it may not, but I dought that shipping has back slide that much. Both Celpalar and Mir while had times of trouble but did not loss that much technology. Also both are islands nations so ships are important to them.
>>
>>Jason Heaps
>>
>>
>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>ibrahim wrote:
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>>Ibrahim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>>Andrew Janssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>>This map suggests some interesting things. First, the Elyrian continent
>>>>>extends towards the poles more than is shown. Second, the Elyrian
>>>>>continent wraps around the globe enough that you could reach it by
>>>>>sailing northwest from Hisaria, as well as northeast from Celpalar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>Thats about 4000 miles though, enough for a sailing ship of the current 
>>>>Qaiyorean or Elyrian technology levels to traverse the ocean separating 
>>>>the two continents?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>Sorry, not clear enough. I mean that it is about 4000 miles or so to 
>>>travel by sea from Qaiyore to Elyria. Given the technological levels of 
>>>both continents, it is probably too far to safely traverse the distance 
>>>(with the exception of ships wildly blown off course).
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>It's 3100 miles or so from Celpalar to the Isle of Fire, and 5100 miles 
>>to Reyceylan.
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>>Ibrahim
>>>
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[Cel] [World] Meridians

Andrew Janssen wrote:

> Hmm. After playing with the combined maps of Qaiyore & Elyria, I get a
> pole-to-pole distance of 2696 pixels, or 13,480 miles, giving a polar
> circumference of 26,960 miles and a radius of 4290.8 miles, closer to
> 108% of Earth's radius than 110%.

OK.  I'll let everyone know once I've redrawn the meridians based on an 8% 
greater radius.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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[Cel] [World] Meridians

I've redrawn the meridians on the Qaiyore map for 1 degree = 750 miles.  The 
results can be seen at http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/gifs/qaiyore2.gif

Andrew, I don't have the overlay ready for you yet.  I'll let you know when 
it's complete.

Jefferson (Exquaestio)
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/Exq_Main.html



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