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Celandra is a game in which the players take the roles of societies, rather than playing individual characters. The players will invent a society with its culture and heritage, and will guide its development and interaction with the world. Emphasis will be be placed on developing a detailed history of Celandra, along with myths and legends.
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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Fri

Jun 10
2005

23:44Z

[Cel] [World] Salt

Ok, now that I'm at home, I've had a chance to do some research on salt 
and salt production. Salt can be acquired in many different ways:

1. Extraction from plants & animals. For tribes which live either in 
wet, tropical regions, or in areas far from seas and former seas, this 
is the only way to get salt. South American Indian tribes burn water 
hyacinth and extract salt from the ash; the Masai herders get most of 
their salt from the blood of cattle.

2. Salt pan solar evaporation. This usually requires a large, flat, 
slightly depressed area by the shore of the sea, such as a tidal flat; a 
constant, sunny climate; and minimal tides. Changes in sea level of no 
more than a meter can complete destroy a pan-evaporation industry. Pan 
evaporation can also be used in salt swamps and salt marshes; salt 
produced from salt marshes has a characteristic reddish color from algal 
contamination. It takes approximately 50,000 liters of sea water spread 
over 100,000 m^2 of flat solar evaporation area to produce 1,000 tons of 
salt a year.

3. Quarrying of exposed outcrops. This is pretty basic and downright 
ancient technology. Salt acquired in this manner tends to be grayish in 
color and is less soluble (and thus, less flavorful) than evaporative 
salt, due to contamination by gypsum.

4. Boiling of sea water. In northern Europe & Japan, where the 
coastlines and climate do not allow for solar evaporation salt-making, a 
common method of salt production was simply boiling seawater. In Europe, 
this led to massive destruction of forests, since it takes four tons of 
wood to make one ton of salt in this manner.

5. Drilling & Brine extraction. The Chinese invented this method of salt 
extraction in 400 A.D. Two holes are drilled into an underground salt 
deposit. Water is forced down one hole, and brine is extracted from the 
second hole. The brine is then either boiled, or allowed to evaporate in 
a salt pan.

6. Mining. Primitive salt mines have been found all over the world: Asia 
Minor, Armenia, South America, and Arizona, amoung others. The oldest 
operating salt mine in Europe has been in operation for over seven 
centuries (since about 1300).

In general, boiling & evaporation are much easier ways of extracting 
salt than quarrying and mining. All of the above techniques are probably 
in use somewhere on Qaiyore. Indeed, looking at the map, Bel'Adne is 
probably a major exporter of salt, unless that lake has been blessed by 
the gods to remain fresh. Sedonia probably uses pan evaporation, 
drilling brine wells, and mining to get salt. Most of the southern 
MidSea Nations probably use boiling or mining. Depending on the shape of 
the underwater topography, I could see Kaeir using boiling or 
evaporation--or they could import from the Rimrivertown colony.

Andrew

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AndrewJanssen
Andrew Janssen

Fri

Jun 10
2005

23:55Z

[Cel] [World] Salt

Andrew Janssen wrote:



> contamination. It takes approximately 50,000 liters of sea water spread 
> over 100,000 m^2 of flat solar evaporation area to produce 1,000 tons of 
> salt a year.
> 

Whoopsie. Made a major math error there. It should be 50,000 kiloliters 
of sea water, not 50,000 liters.

Andrew
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IbrahimDughlasGa
ibrahim

Sat

Jun 11
2005

06:54Z

[Cel] [World] Salt

Andrew Janssen wrote:

>Ok, now that I'm at home, I've had a chance to do some research on salt 
>and salt production. Salt can be acquired in many different ways:
>
>1. Extraction from plants & animals. For tribes which live either in 
>wet, tropical regions, or in areas far from seas and former seas, this 
>is the only way to get salt. South American Indian tribes burn water 
>hyacinth and extract salt from the ash; the Masai herders get most of 
>their salt from the blood of cattle.
>
>2. Salt pan solar evaporation. This usually requires a large, flat, 
>slightly depressed area by the shore of the sea, such as a tidal flat; a 
>constant, sunny climate; and minimal tides. Changes in sea level of no 
>more than a meter can complete destroy a pan-evaporation industry. Pan 
>evaporation can also be used in salt swamps and salt marshes; salt 
>produced from salt marshes has a characteristic reddish color from algal 
>contamination. It takes approximately 50,000 liters of sea water spread 
>over 100,000 m^2 of flat solar evaporation area to produce 1,000 tons of 
>salt a year.
>
>3. Quarrying of exposed outcrops. This is pretty basic and downright 
>ancient technology. Salt acquired in this manner tends to be grayish in 
>color and is less soluble (and thus, less flavorful) than evaporative 
>salt, due to contamination by gypsum.
>
>4. Boiling of sea water. In northern Europe & Japan, where the 
>coastlines and climate do not allow for solar evaporation salt-making, a 
>common method of salt production was simply boiling seawater. In Europe, 
>this led to massive destruction of forests, since it takes four tons of 
>wood to make one ton of salt in this manner.
>
>5. Drilling & Brine extraction. The Chinese invented this method of salt 
>extraction in 400 A.D. Two holes are drilled into an underground salt 
>deposit. Water is forced down one hole, and brine is extracted from the 
>second hole. The brine is then either boiled, or allowed to evaporate in 
>a salt pan.
>
>6. Mining. Primitive salt mines have been found all over the world: Asia 
>Minor, Armenia, South America, and Arizona, amoung others. The oldest 
>operating salt mine in Europe has been in operation for over seven 
>centuries (since about 1300).
>
>In general, boiling & evaporation are much easier ways of extracting 
>salt than quarrying and mining. All of the above techniques are probably 
>in use somewhere on Qaiyore. Indeed, looking at the map, Bel'Adne is 
>probably a major exporter of salt, unless that lake has been blessed by 
>the gods to remain fresh. Sedonia probably uses pan evaporation, 
>drilling brine wells, and mining to get salt. Most of the southern 
>MidSea Nations probably use boiling or mining. Depending on the shape of 
>the underwater topography, I could see Kaeir using boiling or 
>evaporation--or they could import from the Rimrivertown colony.
>  
>
I'm leaning towards evaporation, particularly on the shores of the 
mainland and western shores of the islands, on the Straits of Kaeir. 

The NW coast of Celtehar would be a prime spot with a large number of 
smaller islands (the Northern Islands) running parallel to the NW coast 
of Celtehar around Port Kaeir.  Most of the Northern Islands have 
extensive salt marshes 
(http://darter.ocps.net/classroom/klenk/salt.htm), whereas the western 
shores of Celtehar and Celtelath have a number of tidal flats used for 
salt farming.  A mixture of both exist in Tirmaeir, but the farming 
there is less developed (largely due to the combined instability of war 
and conflict from the previous 3-4 decades - the required manpower to 
maintain such farms hasn't been there sometimes so the farms fall into 
disrepair).

Tidal flats also exist on the eastern shores of the islands, but are not 
generally used as the deep-sea weather makes for inconsistent farming (

Boiling is not commonly used on the islands for salt-production, 
probably due to an islander prohibition against any large-scale logging 
(that is, any going that is avoidable).  The timber plantations 
maintained by the Arsenal for timber and masts does not have as high a 
demand for timber as salt-boiling would, and timber used in such 
plantations is replaced to ensure continual supply.

By the way, there are two moons, are there not?

Continuing this, what might be some of the major winds in Qaiyore?  I 
suspect, though i have no real grounds for for this, that the Midsea is 
the major engine behind most of Qaiyorean weather - much like the El 
Nino weather cycle in the Pacific (which affects the western part of the 
Americas and Australia equally.  Are there seasonal tornadoes, cyclones 
etc in Qaiyore?  Equally important - what are the outer ocean weather 
patterns?  Societies on the outer coastline of Qaiyore could possibly be 
really battered by strong winds.

cheers,

Ibrahim


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JuhaVesanto
juuso

Sun

Jun 12
2005

19:51Z

[Cel] [World] Salt

Ibrahim wrote:
> By the way, there are two moons, are there not?

Yep.

> Continuing this, what might be some of the major winds in Qaiyore?  I 
> suspect, though i have no real grounds for for this, that the Midsea is 
> the major engine behind most of Qaiyorean weather - much like the El 
> Nino weather cycle in the Pacific (which affects the western part of the 
> Americas and Australia equally.  Are there seasonal tornadoes, cyclones 
> etc in Qaiyore?  Equally important - what are the outer ocean weather 
> patterns?  Societies on the outer coastline of Qaiyore could possibly be 
> really battered by strong winds.

I don't know much about weather, but I would say that El Nino is quite a
bit different thing from Midsea. Rather, I would compare Midsea to
Mediterranean. But I have no knowledge of the specific weather patterns
that one causes to the surrounding coasts.

Still I would say that tornadoes and cyclones are very rare around 
Midsea. The outer coasts on the other hand might be victim to them.
But nobody has really ever charted the weather patterns.

juuso



> cheers,
> 
> Ibrahim
> 
> 
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> 
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JeffersonWilson
Jefferson

Sun

Jun 12
2005

22:57Z

[Cel] [World] MidSea Weather (was: Salt)

Ibrahim wrote:

> By the way, there are two moons, are there not?

Yes, but the smaller moon has only very rare and relatively minor effects 
on tides and weather.

> Continuing this, what might be some of the major winds in Qaiyore?  I 
> suspect, though i have no real grounds for for this, that the Midsea is 
> the major engine behind most of Qaiyorean weather - much like the El 
> Nino weather cycle in the Pacific (which affects the western part of the 
> Americas and Australia equally.  Are there seasonal tornadoes, cyclones 
> etc in Qaiyore?  Equally important - what are the outer ocean weather 
> patterns?  Societies on the outer coastline of Qaiyore could possibly be 
> really battered by strong winds.

The major flow of winds in the MidSea would be counterclockwise; pivoting 
around a high pressure zone in the center of the sea.  The summer will see 
the formation of a low pressure zone to the west of the MidSea over the 
Qaiyore land mass.  This weather system will create significant storms 
during the summer along the west coast of the MidSea with the greatest 
precipitation in the southeast (partly explaining Videssia's wealth and 
population compared to the surrounding nations).

Of course the above picture isn't static.  Winds and pressure zones move, 
appear, and disappear, but it does supply a general background.

Hurricanes / Typhoons / Tropical Storms will be stopped before entering the 
MidSea by the surrounding land masses.  I'd need to study a bit to see how 
often they'd affect the straights of Annorurr.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/



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