
I think I'm finally starting to get a grip on the Combat in IH table: Military sizes such as Fair, Great, or Small are not absolutes, but are measured relative to the Size/Scope of the Society the military force belongs to--it's the only way I can get http://users.tkk.fi/~vesanto/ihfudge/military.html to make sense. Size Population Military% Nominal Standing# Provisional# ----- ---------- --------- -------- --------- ------------ Vast >500 mil 0.1% >500'000 >200'000 >2 mil Huge 500 mil 0.1% 500'000 200'000 2 mil Great 200 mil 0.1% 200'000 100'000 500'000 Big 20 mil 0.5% 100'000 30'000 200'000 Fair 2 mil 1.5% 30'000 10'000 100'000 Mediocre 200'000 5% 10'000 3'000 30'000 Small 20'000 15% 3'000 1'000 10'000 Very small 2'000 50% 1'000 300 2'000 Tiny 200 100% 200 20 200 A force of size Fair = Nation's population * Military%. So for the major players: Country 1458 Pop. Military% Force Size of Fair ----------- --------- --------- ------------------ Kaeir 810,000 5% 40,500 Mir 2,600,000 1.5% 39,000 Rhudyn/Tana* 1,800,000 1.5% 27,000 Sedonia 24,000,000 0.5% 120,000 Tanimbar* 1,800,000 1.5% 27,000 Zelkor 317,000 5% 15,850 I used 1.5% for Rhudyn/Tana and Tanimbar because 1.8 million is closer to 2 million than it is to 200,000. To find other sizes, use this table, where X=Size of Fair: Nation Size Step Down Step Up ------ --------- ------- Vast X/2 X*5 Huge X/2 X*5 Great X/2 X*5 Big X/3 X*3 Fair X/3 X*3 Mediocre X/3 X*3 Small X/3 X*3 Very small X/3 X*2 Tiny X/10 Not Possible So, a new table of relative Military sizes: Country Small Medio. Fair Big Great ----------- ------ ------ -------- ------- ------- Kaeir 4,500 13,500 40,500 121,500 364,500 Mir 4,300 13,000 39,000 117,000 351,000 Rhudyn/Tana 3,000 9,000 27,000 81,000 243,000 Sedonia 13,300 40,000 120,000 360,000 1,080,000 Tanimbar 3,000 9,000 27,000 81,000 243,000 Zelkor 1,760 5,280 15,850 47,550 142,650 Attempting to raise forces of Big or greater gives a Society a -1 per size level per year penalty to its Exploitation determinant. Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Hmmm..... According to this Kaeir has a Small force (which would match my figure of 4600). I think there is an inbuilt limitation on a Kaeirean standing force being too large as many able bodied men serve in the merchant marine. The Provisional forces number 30,000 currently. I suspect once the current matters settle down in the northern Midsea, Kaeir will witness a renewed call for the expansion of the land forces, especially as all the land forces are tied down protecting borders or newly acquired territory with the exception of the Tirmaeiri Rangers (northern Tirmaeir between Saltrim and New Tirmaeir lacking a border with a foreign country). The recent use of volunteers from the Guard for a private religious action as the Paladins of the Tower might see the development of a more mundane armed wing of the Millati church (in addition to the sorcerous wing of the church, the Brotherhood of the Night). Having said that, mere size and training do not always determine force and ability to succeed. I suspect that in the current Zelkori campaign, the Zelkori have an advantage that the Sedonians don't have - desperation. Even they we're in a pre-nationalist period, popular despair over the loss of imagined (given that Qaiyore is not democratic) freedoms will drive many Zelkori soldiers to fight even more determinedly than Sedonians (who would be driven by love of country and the crown etc as well, but might be slightly less driven as its more of a job). Perhaps if the Zelkori Prince had assassinated the entire Imperial Family, then the Sedonian Legions would have an equivalent passion. >From the Kaeirean perspective, the result of the Zelkori War is probably a foregone conclusion, though a very and unnecessarily bloody one paid at a very high price. Regardless, the Kaeireans are more interested in the resumption of trade in the Zelkori port than who wins. Ibrahim Andrew Janssenwrote: I think I'm finally starting to get a grip on the Combat in IH table: Military sizes such as Fair, Great, or Small are not absolutes, but are measured relative to the Size/Scope of the Society the military force belongs to--it's the only way I can get http://users.tkk.fi/~vesanto/ihfudge/military.html to make sense. Size Population Military% Nominal Standing# Provisional# ----- ---------- --------- -------- --------- ------------ Vast >500 mil 0.1% >500'000 >200'000 >2 mil Huge 500 mil 0.1% 500'000 200'000 2 mil Great 200 mil 0.1% 200'000 100'000 500'000 Big 20 mil 0.5% 100'000 30'000 200'000 Fair 2 mil 1.5% 30'000 10'000 100'000 Mediocre 200'000 5% 10'000 3'000 30'000 Small 20'000 15% 3'000 1'000 10'000 Very small 2'000 50% 1'000 300 2'000 Tiny 200 100% 200 20 200 A force of size Fair = Nation's population * Military%. So for the major players: Country 1458 Pop. Military% Force Size of Fair ----------- --------- --------- ------------------ Kaeir 810,000 5% 40,500 Mir 2,600,000 1.5% 39,000 Rhudyn/Tana* 1,800,000 1.5% 27,000 Sedonia 24,000,000 0.5% 120,000 Tanimbar* 1,800,000 1.5% 27,000 Zelkor 317,000 5% 15,850 I used 1.5% for Rhudyn/Tana and Tanimbar because 1.8 million is closer to 2 million than it is to 200,000. To find other sizes, use this table, where X=Size of Fair: Nation Size Step Down Step Up ------ --------- ------- Vast X/2 X*5 Huge X/2 X*5 Great X/2 X*5 Big X/3 X*3 Fair X/3 X*3 Mediocre X/3 X*3 Small X/3 X*3 Very small X/3 X*2 Tiny X/10 Not Possible So, a new table of relative Military sizes: Country Small Medio. Fair Big Great ----------- ------ ------ -------- ------- ------- Kaeir 4,500 13,500 40,500 121,500 364,500 Mir 4,300 13,000 39,000 117,000 351,000 Rhudyn/Tana 3,000 9,000 27,000 81,000 243,000 Sedonia 13,300 40,000 120,000 360,000 1,080,000 Tanimbar 3,000 9,000 27,000 81,000 243,000 Zelkor 1,760 5,280 15,850 47,550 142,650 Attempting to raise forces of Big or greater gives a Society a -1 per size level per year penalty to its Exploitation determinant. Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
i wrote: > Hmmm..... According to this Kaeir has a Small force (which would match my figure of 4600). I think there is an inbuilt limitation on a Kaeirean standing force being too large as many able bodied men serve in the merchant marine. > > The Provisional forces number 30,000 currently. > > I suspect once the current matters settle down in the northern Midsea, Kaeir will witness a renewed call for the expansion of the land forces, especially as all the land forces are tied down protecting borders or newly acquired territory with the exception of the Tirmaeiri Rangers (northern Tirmaeir between Saltrim and New Tirmaeir lacking a border with a foreign country). > > The recent use of volunteers from the Guard for a private religious action as the Paladins of the Tower might see the development of a more mundane armed wing of the Millati church (in addition to the sorcerous wing of the church, the Brotherhood of the Night). > > Having said that, mere size and training do not always determine force and ability to succeed. I suspect that in the current Zelkori campaign, the Zelkori have an advantage that the Sedonians don't have - desperation. Even they we're in a pre-nationalist period, popular despair over the loss of imagined (given that Qaiyore is not democratic) freedoms will drive many Zelkori soldiers to fight even more determinedly than Sedonians (who would be driven by love of country and the crown etc as well, but might be slightly less driven as its more of a job). Perhaps if the Zelkori Prince had assassinated the entire Imperial Family, then the Sedonian Legions would have an equivalent passion. Don't give him any bright ideas! :) Seriously, given what happened the *last* time a MidSea nation 'attacked' the Sedonian imperial family . . . . there are more pleasant ways of committing suicide. Just ask King Villard of Burcancy and his family--if you can find a good medium. Of course, the situation is different now, but attacking the Sedonian imperials would be a truly stupid thing to do. >>>From the Kaeirean perspective, the result of the Zelkori War is probably a foregone conclusion, though a very and unnecessarily bloody one paid at a very high price. Regardless, the Kaeireans are more interested in the resumption of trade in the Zelkori port than who wins. It comes down to: how badly does Sedonia want to control Zelkor? This year's action results might affect the outcome of next year's general election and the future course of the war. Andrew > > Ibrahim > > Andrew Janssenwrote: > I think I'm finally starting to get a grip on the Combat in IH table: > Military sizes such as Fair, Great, or Small are not absolutes, but are > measured relative to the Size/Scope of the Society the military force > belongs to--it's the only way I can get > http://users.tkk.fi/~vesanto/ihfudge/military.html to make sense. > > Size Population Military% Nominal Standing# Provisional# > ----- ---------- --------- -------- --------- ------------ > Vast >500 mil 0.1% >500'000 >200'000 >2 mil > Huge 500 mil 0.1% 500'000 200'000 2 mil > Great 200 mil 0.1% 200'000 100'000 500'000 > Big 20 mil 0.5% 100'000 30'000 200'000 > Fair 2 mil 1.5% 30'000 10'000 100'000 > Mediocre 200'000 5% 10'000 3'000 30'000 > Small 20'000 15% 3'000 1'000 10'000 > Very small 2'000 50% 1'000 300 2'000 > Tiny 200 100% 200 20 200 > > A force of size Fair = Nation's population * Military%. > > So for the major players: > > Country 1458 Pop. Military% Force Size of Fair > ----------- --------- --------- ------------------ > Kaeir 810,000 5% 40,500 > Mir 2,600,000 1.5% 39,000 > Rhudyn/Tana* 1,800,000 1.5% 27,000 > Sedonia 24,000,000 0.5% 120,000 > Tanimbar* 1,800,000 1.5% 27,000 > Zelkor 317,000 5% 15,850 > > I used 1.5% for Rhudyn/Tana and Tanimbar because 1.8 million is closer > to 2 million than it is to 200,000. > > To find other sizes, use this table, where X=Size of Fair: > > Nation > Size Step Down Step Up > ------ --------- ------- > Vast X/2 X*5 > Huge X/2 X*5 > Great X/2 X*5 > Big X/3 X*3 > Fair X/3 X*3 > Mediocre X/3 X*3 > Small X/3 X*3 > Very small X/3 X*2 > Tiny X/10 Not Possible > > So, a new table of relative Military sizes: > > Country Small Medio. Fair Big Great > ----------- ------ ------ -------- ------- ------- > Kaeir 4,500 13,500 40,500 121,500 364,500 > Mir 4,300 13,000 39,000 117,000 351,000 > Rhudyn/Tana 3,000 9,000 27,000 81,000 243,000 > Sedonia 13,300 40,000 120,000 360,000 1,080,000 > Tanimbar 3,000 9,000 27,000 81,000 243,000 > Zelkor 1,760 5,280 15,850 47,550 142,650 > > Attempting to raise forces of Big or greater gives a Society a -1 per > size level per year penalty to its Exploitation determinant. > > Andrew > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
I'm trying to work out some sort of equation, such that you can plug your population number into it and get your nominal army size out. Unfortunately for me, the military% changes nonlinearly, and it's been seven years since I took calculus. I can tell from plotting the existing points that any such equation would involve exponential functions, but like I said, my math is really rusty. Anyone out there with decent math skills? I can probably figure it out if I bang my head against it often enough, but I'd like to spare myself as much pain as possible. Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Thank goodness for the internet! I found a website that does all the nasty calculation of exponential regression for me. Army sizes in Celandra can be approximately calculated using the formula: y = 16.2645x^0.518867 or, if you're in a hurry and just want a quick'n'dirty number, y = 16 * squareroot(x) where x is the population of the country and y is the nominal army size. The equation doesn't *quite* fit for x > 200,000,000 or so, but for most MidSea countries, it should work adequately. Andrew Andrew Janssen wrote: > I'm trying to work out some sort of equation, such that you can plug > your population number into it and get your nominal army size out. > Unfortunately for me, the military% changes nonlinearly, and it's been > seven years since I took calculus. I can tell from plotting the existing > points that any such equation would involve exponential functions, but > like I said, my math is really rusty. > > Anyone out there with decent math skills? I can probably figure it out > if I bang my head against it often enough, but I'd like to spare myself > as much pain as possible. > > Andrew > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Nice, Andrew. Excellent work. Its always good when someone else does the dirty work to make things easier for everyone : ) Ibrahim Andrew Janssen wrote: >Thank goodness for the internet! I found a website that does all the >nasty calculation of exponential regression for me. Army sizes in >Celandra can be approximately calculated using the formula: > >y = 16.2645x^0.518867 > >or, if you're in a hurry and just want a quick'n'dirty number, > >y = 16 * squareroot(x) > >where x is the population of the country and y is the nominal army size. >The equation doesn't *quite* fit for x > 200,000,000 or so, but for most > MidSea countries, it should work adequately. > >Andrew > >Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>I'm trying to work out some sort of equation, such that you can plug >>your population number into it and get your nominal army size out. >>Unfortunately for me, the military% changes nonlinearly, and it's been >>seven years since I took calculus. I can tell from plotting the existing >>points that any such equation would involve exponential functions, but >>like I said, my math is really rusty. >> >>Anyone out there with decent math skills? I can probably figure it out >>if I bang my head against it often enough, but I'd like to spare myself >>as much pain as possible. >> >>Andrew >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >> >> >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
Yes, it is, isn't it? : ) As a correction, the first formula should be (if I can get Mozilla to format it properly: y = 16.2645x^0.^518867 Andrew ibrahim wrote: > Nice, Andrew. Excellent work. Its always good when someone else does > the dirty work to make things easier for everyone : ) > > Ibrahim > > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>Thank goodness for the internet! I found a website that does all the >>nasty calculation of exponential regression for me. Army sizes in >>Celandra can be approximately calculated using the formula: >> >>y = 16.2645x^0.518867 >> >>or, if you're in a hurry and just want a quick'n'dirty number, >> >>y = 16 * squareroot(x) >> >>where x is the population of the country and y is the nominal army size. >>The equation doesn't *quite* fit for x > 200,000,000 or so, but for most >> MidSea countries, it should work adequately. >> >>Andrew >> >>Andrew Janssen wrote: >> >> >> >>>I'm trying to work out some sort of equation, such that you can plug >>>your population number into it and get your nominal army size out. >>>Unfortunately for me, the military% changes nonlinearly, and it's been >>>seven years since I took calculus. I can tell from plotting the existing >>>points that any such equation would involve exponential functions, but >>>like I said, my math is really rusty. >>> >>>Anyone out there with decent math skills? I can probably figure it out >>>if I bang my head against it often enough, but I'd like to spare myself >>>as much pain as possible. >>> >>>Andrew >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >>> >>> >>> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >> >> >> >> >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
I guess Mozilla won't cooperate--but I figure you all know what I meant, yeah? Andrew Andrew Janssen wrote: > Yes, it is, isn't it? : ) > > As a correction, the first formula should be (if I can get Mozilla to > format it properly: > > y = 16.2645x^0.^518867 > > Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
As someone almost completely mathematically illiterate (well, if i hit my head against a wall until it sinks in, i can get it, but its agonising), here's what the simplified equation produced for me given the Kaeirean islands population of 124000, the Kaeirean Tirmaeir population of 510000, and a guesstimate population of Saltrim as 480120 = 1,114,120. 16*SQRT(1114120.176) = 16888.3 I'd also throw in a 10% reduction on Kaeirean forces, due to the amount of suitable manpower that is needed for the merchant marine (Kaeirean ships are though, obligated to carry arms at all times and be convertible to warships, and in times of war are obligated to serve in the Home Fleet), at the expense of the military. Which would make a nominal total of 15200. If this is the case, I can see the Office of the Inquisitor, the Colonial Office, the Kaeiran military and conservative lords agitating for an expansion of land and sea forces in the near future. Any comments? Ibrahim Andrew Janssen wrote: >Thank goodness for the internet! I found a website that does all the >nasty calculation of exponential regression for me. Army sizes in >Celandra can be approximately calculated using the formula: > >y = 16.2645x^0.518867 > >or, if you're in a hurry and just want a quick'n'dirty number, > >y = 16 * squareroot(x) > >where x is the population of the country and y is the nominal army size. >The equation doesn't *quite* fit for x > 200,000,000 or so, but for most > MidSea countries, it should work adequately. > >Andrew > >Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>I'm trying to work out some sort of equation, such that you can plug >>your population number into it and get your nominal army size out. >>Unfortunately for me, the military% changes nonlinearly, and it's been >>seven years since I took calculus. I can tell from plotting the existing >>points that any such equation would involve exponential functions, but >>like I said, my math is really rusty. >> >>Anyone out there with decent math skills? I can probably figure it out >>if I bang my head against it often enough, but I'd like to spare myself >>as much pain as possible. >> >>Andrew >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >> >> >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.
ibrahim wrote: > As someone almost completely mathematically illiterate (well, if i hit > my head against a wall until it sinks in, i can get it, but its > agonising), here's what the simplified equation produced for me given > the Kaeirean islands population of 124000, the Kaeirean Tirmaeir > population of 510000, and a guesstimate population of Saltrim as 480120 > = 1,114,120. > > 16*SQRT(1114120.176) = 16888.3 > > I'd also throw in a 10% reduction on Kaeirean forces, due to the amount > of suitable manpower that is needed for the merchant marine (Kaeirean > ships are though, obligated to carry arms at all times and be > convertible to warships, and in times of war are obligated to serve in > the Home Fleet), at the expense of the military. Which would make a > nominal total of 15200. > > If this is the case, I can see the Office of the Inquisitor, the > Colonial Office, the Kaeiran military and conservative lords agitating > for an expansion of land and sea forces in the near future. > > Any comments? > > Ibrahim No, not really. The equation will give numbers that will never *quite* match those given by the table, so if your population is close to one of the 'benchmarks' (200, 2000, 20000, etc), you should still use the table. However, if your population falls into the gaps, if it's between 200,000 and 2,000,000, or between 2,000,000 and 20,000,000, using the equation will probably give you a better number than going by the table. 15,200 seems reasonable for the expanded Kaeir to me. Andrew > Andrew Janssen wrote: > > >>Thank goodness for the internet! I found a website that does all the >>nasty calculation of exponential regression for me. Army sizes in >>Celandra can be approximately calculated using the formula: >> >>y = 16.2645x^0.518867 >> >>or, if you're in a hurry and just want a quick'n'dirty number, >> >>y = 16 * squareroot(x) >> >>where x is the population of the country and y is the nominal army size. >>The equation doesn't *quite* fit for x > 200,000,000 or so, but for most >> MidSea countries, it should work adequately. >> >>Andrew >> >>Andrew Janssen wrote: >> >> >> >>>I'm trying to work out some sort of equation, such that you can plug >>>your population number into it and get your nominal army size out. >>>Unfortunately for me, the military% changes nonlinearly, and it's been >>>seven years since I took calculus. I can tell from plotting the existing >>>points that any such equation would involve exponential functions, but >>>like I said, my math is really rusty. >>> >>>Anyone out there with decent math skills? I can probably figure it out >>>if I bang my head against it often enough, but I'd like to spare myself >>>as much pain as possible. >>> >>>Andrew >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >>> >>> >>> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. >> >> >> >> >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send mail to celandra-off@phoenyx.net.