Does anyone have a copy of the Zelkor vicotry? If I could see how many
sucessess I had that would clarify some of this for me- I just looked
for it in my e-mail but couldn't seem to find it... other than that
sounds like most of the discussion is good, sounds like I have until
early or mid summer to avoid another full blockade. The few dinky
ships still guarding the harbour I am not teribbly concernced
about....I just got a little stressed because it came across in
Andrew's last turn (and his resulting letters to Tannibar) that there
was a fleet that could limit acess to the port, which confused me as I
had such a large vicotry last year. Of course diplomatic letters can
say enemy ships must check in at the blockade, despite the lack of, or
status of a full blockade. A few ships is fine, a full blockade by
early summer at the earliest I can also agree upon.
PS I am FINALLY wrting my turn right now (after this e-mail) sorry
it's taken so long I was away for New Year's and this turn has caused
more stress than usual (I am being destroyed this year after all). I
am possibly looking into playing one of the Free Cities- maybe jointly
(as in we each play one of the cities) with my friend Chris.
- Ethan
On 1/6/06, Douglas Sharp wrote:
> Okay, sounds good. Thanks for answering. Doug
>
> Andrew Janssen wrote: Sedonia, like Venice in RL history, & I assume Kaeir in Celandra, follows the practice of building new ships, then carefully numbering all the pieces and disassembling them for storage until needed. That mitigates the problem somewhat, (certainly enought to account for the replacement of the losses from the battle of Zelkor) as does the Sedonian decision to not intially build any of the two largest classes of ship, the quinqueremes & deceres.
>
> Another factor to consider is that the magnitude of the effort means that *no* civilian construction is occuring in any Sedonian yards at all, and some of the construction that was being worked on when the expansion begins has been bought by the Navy and converted to warships. The Government has bought up all the seasoned wood in the Empire (probably paying sedons on the imperial, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion).
>
> You're right about the drawdown of seasoned wood, though. I figure that after the initial rush of construction in the first year, there'd be a slowdown as the supply of seasoned wood dropped. Once the initial rush of building ends, the yards will construct some of the larger ships at a slower pace. That's why I'm now estimating a minimum of 2 to 3 more years, not counting 1461, to complete the expansion from 42 pre-war ships to 126.
>
> A final thing to consider is that the Sedonians, through the State Church, has access to priests with the magical skills to at least partially accelerate the seasoning process. I'm not sure if there would be enough priests with the appropriate skill sets to make a major impact--I'm at work at the moment, and don't have access to my population & demographics spreadsheets.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Douglas Sharp
> To: celandra@phoenyx.net
> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:47:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [Cel] Sedonia's Navy
>
>
> I just have one question: Is the wood you are using fresh or precured? If you are using freshly cut wood, it would take a year per inch of wood to cured it. At the rate your building, I don't know if you shipyards would have that much precured wood. This would be a factor in how many ships you could build. Doug
>
> Andrew Janssen wrote: Is this a change to 1460 or 1461?
>
> As far as plausibility, my sources indicated that in our RW history, it
> took 4 to six months to construct ships of the type the Sedonian Navy
> uses. Based on the number of building slips available, most of which
> were concentrated in Thalsedon, Gomel, & Inibar, I figured on 2 to 5
> years, min-max, to triple the pre-war fleet ship count. Frankly, I'd
> assumed that personnel training, not shipbuilding, would be the limiting
> factor.
>
> Vizur's advantage in shipbuilding lay not in the number of yards, but in
> its proximity to raw materials.
>
> And no, I'm not going to change my write-up retroactively. Largely
> because I'd rather spend my time writing new stuff than revisiting old
> stuff. However, see my reasoning below:
>
> The way I saw the battle of Zelkor playing out was that the ships that
> were destroyed were the "heavy" ships, quinquiremes and deceres. Those
> ships had very large crews and were intended as mobile siege artillery
> platforms for bombarding harbors, not fleet battles. Being large, slow,
> and difficult to maneuver, they would have taken the brunt of the
> casualties in a fleet engagement.
>
> Working the math, if all 3 of Sedonia's deceres and all 9 of the
> quinqueremes were lost with all hands, that works out to a loss of 28.5%
> of the ships and 41.7% of the men. More realisticly, say Sedonia lost 14
> ships and 42% to 45% of its men. That would mean Zelkor lost 2 ships
> (based on the 1:7 ratio from the battle result)
>
> Replacing those 14 ships would take on average 5 months (since the
> Sedonian navy isn't replacing deceres with deceres, or quinqueremes with
> quinqueremes, but with triremes), meaning it would take a single slip
> ~70 months to build 14 ships.
>
> If we disregard Vizur's six ship building slips, that still leaves 36
> slips in the other ports, each of which can build about 2 ships in a
> year, assuming parts & labor are available. The yards combined could
> replace the 14 lost ships, and still build 58 more.
>
> Anyway, you are quite right about the time factor--given weather and
> training needs, the full blockading squadron wouldn't be fully on
> station until very late spring, early summer at the earliest, more
> likely midsummer although they'd probably have a partial squadron
> observing the port from the beginning of the year.
>
> That's more than enough time for Tanimbar to slip at least one convoy in
> if they can move quickly enough.
>
> Andrew
>
> Jason Heaps wrote:
> > Okay. I have had both Ethan and Doug point this out and question the actualy plossiblitly of Sedonia in a year being able to bring their navy to pre-battle levels, even with a +3 being able to rebuild the lost fleet and and train effective sailors in a year is a stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > I am sorry I should have caught this earlier, but with a stressful decemeber, it is my fault. Sorry Andrew.
> >
> > Okay the rebuilding the ships actions did come out with a +3 but with a normal difficulty. Then there is the subpart.
> >
> > + Supply construction materials +
> > + Construct ships 0
> > + Recruit sailors +
> > + Train sailors +
> >
> > The only thing that I would change from Andrew wright up is that the ships are not yet at pre battle levels, unless we are looking at a very small number of ships. One thing to keep in mind is that the Vizur was raided, and most of the damage would be in the harbor area so ships would be slower in building down there.
> >
> > I would say that while the ships are not at pre battle levels, but the amount of sailors, and training is higher then pre-battle levels. Unless Juuso disagrees.
> >
> > Also for the sack of clarification, I would imagin that Andrew would agree with this, even with the sedonian fleet leaving at the begining of the year it would take two to three months for the fleet to completly arrive, and for them to install the bloackade.
> >
> > Again sorry Andrew
> >
> > Jason Heaps
> >
> >
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