Something interesting

Something interesting to talk about? :)

How about this: Have you ever done a plot where the heros are in the
middle of a mission/quest and then they discover that their most hated
enemy is about to gain something that will give them almost unstoppable
power... but if they abandon their current mission/quest, then the world
will suffer. 

Thus they have to decide which is the lesser evil.

For instance, in my fantasy campaign, the group is working to stop the
Aboloth from creating their Tower of Domination (the Night Below boxed
set, though I've modified it a bit)... but Frederick (the mage and
leader of the group) is soon to be taunted by his arch-foe, who was
responsible for the deaths of his father and mother, that he is on his
way to gain the Ultimate Power, which will make him immortal.

The question is... which is the lesser evil, letting the Abolath rule
the world... or letting this man gain power that will make him pretty
much unkillable (and in turn probably try and gain control over the
world). :)

Rob
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Something interesting

At 12:56 PM 9/6/99 cdt, you wrote:
>Something interesting to talk about? :)
>
>How about this: Have you ever done a plot where the heros are in the
>middle of a mission/quest and then they discover that their most hated
>enemy is about to gain something that will give them almost unstoppable
>power... but if they abandon their current mission/quest, then the world
>will suffer. 
>
>Thus they have to decide which is the lesser evil.
>
>For instance, in my fantasy campaign, the group is working to stop the
>Aboloth from creating their Tower of Domination (the Night Below boxed
>set, though I've modified it a bit)... but Frederick (the mage and
>leader of the group) is soon to be taunted by his arch-foe, who was
>responsible for the deaths of his father and mother, that he is on his
>way to gain the Ultimate Power, which will make him immortal.
>
>The question is... which is the lesser evil, letting the Abolath rule
>the world... or letting this man gain power that will make him pretty
>much unkillable (and in turn probably try and gain control over the
>world). :)

If it were me (as a player) I'd probably work on weakening the Abolath, and
let the mage get his power... then the two of them could go at it, and I
could work on weakening the both of them while they fought it out.
*****

thewolkes@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~thewolkes


*****
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Something interesting

When I do a "Dark" campaign I use the lose-lose scenario like you have set 
up.  I generally only do it for Cyberpunk games.  In those game I also make 
the players walk a grey zone of good vs. evil.  My idea was to make the 
players feel dirty.

Rolando

At 12:56 PM 9/6/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Something interesting to talk about? :)
>
>How about this: Have you ever done a plot where the heros are in the
>middle of a mission/quest and then they discover that their most hated
>enemy is about to gain something that will give them almost unstoppable
>power... but if they abandon their current mission/quest, then the world
>will suffer.
>
>Thus they have to decide which is the lesser evil.
>
>For instance, in my fantasy campaign, the group is working to stop the
>Aboloth from creating their Tower of Domination (the Night Below boxed
>set, though I've modified it a bit)... but Frederick (the mage and
>leader of the group) is soon to be taunted by his arch-foe, who was
>responsible for the deaths of his father and mother, that he is on his
>way to gain the Ultimate Power, which will make him immortal.
>
>The question is... which is the lesser evil, letting the Abolath rule
>the world... or letting this man gain power that will make him pretty
>much unkillable (and in turn probably try and gain control over the
>world). :)
>
>Rob
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Rolando R. Gomez

shadoe@kscable.com
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         It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion
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Something interesting

On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Steve Barr wrote:

> The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
> overwhelmed and inadequate.

For some, that *is* fun roleplaying. 

-- 
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net)
Error locating MAFIA.EXE - program not executed.

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Something interesting

Steve Barr wrote:
> 
> The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
> overwhelmed and inadequate.

Three fun words:

Call of Cthulhu


-Old Visionary
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Something interesting

Old Visionary wrote:
> 
> Steve Barr wrote:
> >
> > The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
> > overwhelmed and inadequate.
> 
> Three fun words:
> 
> Call of Cthulhu

Yes, but they should only feel overwhelmed and inadequate about
5-10 minutes before they become Monster Chow(TM). :-)

Before that the characters should be confident that they'll win
through in the end.  Otherwise, why bother going after the monsters
when you'd be better off trying to convince the Marines to attack,
or whatever?

Carl D. Cravens wrote:
> For some, that *is* fun roleplaying. 

Are you referring to WW-style gaming?  I don't know much about that;
it never appealed to me.  

Steve
-- 
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Something interesting

| > The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
| > overwhelmed and inadequate.
| 
| For some, that *is* fun roleplaying. 

Nobody that would ever be invited back to my table, that's certain.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Something interesting

| > > The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
| > > overwhelmed and inadequate.
| > 
| > Three fun words:
| > 
| > Call of Cthulhu
| 
| Yes, but they should only feel overwhelmed and inadequate about
| 5-10 minutes before they become Monster Chow(TM). :-)

The vital point to remember, for CoC or ANY game, is that the _characters_
can feel anyway that makes for a fun story, provided the _Players_ are
never, EVER made to feel overwhelmed and inadequate. If that happens, the
GM is simply bad, and should step aside for somebody competent. If the GM
and the players are both really good and on their stride, the _characters_
can be miserable and everybody can have a blast gaming it out ;) But that's
a balance most novice GMs have difficulty with.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Something interesting

sjohn@io.com wrote:
> 
> | > The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
> | > overwhelmed and inadequate.
> |
> | For some, that *is* fun roleplaying.
> 
> Nobody that would ever be invited back to my table, that's certain.

I've known more than a few gamers whose idea of "fun" is to pick one
player and treat every character that player portrays like dirt - and
the player, by extension. I've seen players graduate such "hazing" and
participate when others joined.

I don't see the attraction, really. I have this weird delusion that
games are supposed to be fun. :-)

-- 
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
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Something interesting

| I've known more than a few gamers whose idea of "fun" is to pick one
| player and treat every character that player portrays like dirt - and
| the player, by extension. I've seen players graduate such "hazing" and
| participate when others joined.

Yeah, I've seen that, too. It's ugly.
 
| I don't see the attraction, really. I have this weird delusion that
| games are supposed to be fun. :-)

And not only fun, but affectionate, really. It's a social gathering of
friends, and it works best - I mean REALLY REALLY BEST - when everybody at
the table has one motive clearly at heart: to entertain the others at the
table through the medium of the game. When other motives interfere
(particularly selfish ones, or those that place the goals of the character
above the goals of the game), things lose potential fast, and can sour.

Gaming, at its best, is a very giving kind of activity. And it very often
starts and ends with the GM, who sets an example, particularly for new
players (and I teach a lot of newbies every year).

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Something interesting

On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Steve Barr wrote:
 
> Are you referring to WW-style gaming?  I don't know much about that;
> it never appealed to me.  

No, I'm just referring to the fact that some people prefer a game where
not only do their characters not always win, but sometimes their
characters have to face personal disasters and overwhelming problems.  

If you've read any of the Deryni series, specifically the King Kelson
stuff, the things the author does to Kelson make you want to scream... I
won't spoil it, but he gets into these serious relationships just to have
the rug ripped out from under him.  I wasn't sure whether to cry, throw
the book across the room, or mail explosive devices to the author.
But they were damn good stories. 

Were this PC and GM, as opposed to character and author, many of you would
consider what happens to Kelson to be "hosing" on the GM's part, that the
GM was "unfair" and the player's part "unfun".  But I've also known
players who would relish this kind of play... yes, they'd cry, throw books
at the GM and maybe contemplate mail bombs, but they'd look back and
consider that game one of the best they've ever played in. 

-- 
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net)
"*I'LL* mess with Texas!" - Captain Kansas.

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Something interesting

Steve Barr wrote:
> 
> > For some, that *is* fun roleplaying.
> 
> Are you referring to WW-style gaming?  I don't know much about that;
> it never appealed to me.

I don't think there's a distinct "WW-style" of gaming. It's roleplaying,
like anything else. 

-- 
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
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Something interesting

On Tue,  7 Sep 1999 16:23:22 cdt, Marizhavashti Kali
 wrote:

>Steve Barr wrote:
>> 
>> > For some, that *is* fun roleplaying.
>> 
>> Are you referring to WW-style gaming?  I don't know much about that;
>> it never appealed to me.
>
>I don't think there's a distinct "WW-style" of gaming. It's roleplaying,
>like anything else. 

The subject matter(s) and writing promote a certain world view in the
game, most RPGs do this, Call of Cthulhu should have a distinct feel
from Star Wars, but the feeling in the WW line tends to put a wheen of
folk off.

ed
-- 
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Something interesting

Marizhavashti Kali wrote:
> Steve Barr wrote:
> > Are you referring to WW-style gaming?  I don't know much about that;
> > it never appealed to me.
> I don't think there's a distinct "WW-style" of gaming. It's roleplaying,
> like anything else.

Hmmm, I guess I can clarify what I meant.  My impression of WW-style 
gaming is that it gives emphasis to what the character is feeling 
rather than to what the character is doing.  This view is doubtless
based mainly on V:tM.

The best illustration I can offer is Star Trek vs. ST:TNG.  On Star
Trek, characters did things: phasered a city, fought space battles,
loved, lost, explored, etc.  On the few episodes of ST:TNG I saw, 
most of what they did was talk, talk, talk: how they felt about a
course of action, each other, etc. etc. etc. :-)

Feelings are important, but saving the world is too. :-)

All just IMO,

Steve
-- 
http://www.stevebarr.com
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Something interesting

| > The subject matter(s) and writing promote a certain world view in the
| > game, most RPGs do this, Call of Cthulhu should have a distinct feel
| > from Star Wars, but the feeling in the WW line tends to put a wheen of
| > folk off.
| 
| Oh, really? Why? Could you refer to a book printed in the last two years
| which has an example of the writing style that puts people off?
| 
| I'm honestly curious.

Digital Web 2.0, the Storytelling chapter :)

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Something interesting

Steve Barr wrote:
> 
> Hmmm, I guess I can clarify what I meant.  My impression of WW-style
> gaming is that it gives emphasis to what the character is feeling
> rather than to what the character is doing.  This view is doubtless
> based mainly on V:tM.

Hmm. I've played WW games for eight years, and usually my characters are
doing stuff. :-) I've got the PCs in a Mage game I'm running in an epic
series of adventues which should climax with an invasion from "outer
space." 

I guess it's a matter of interpretation. Carry on. 

> Feelings are important, but saving the world is too. :-)

Certainly, which is why I'm running a "save-the-world" game. :-)

> All just IMO,

BTW, thanks for clarifying. 

-- 
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | http://www.telelists.com
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Something interesting

sjohn@io.com wrote:
> 
> | Oh, really? Why? Could you refer to a book printed in the last two years
> | which has an example of the writing style that puts people off?
> |
> | I'm honestly curious.
> 
> Digital Web 2.0, the Storytelling chapter :)

Looking over that chapter here, it does seem focused externally on
affecting the Web and doing stuff in the Web, as opposed to feeling
angst-ridden, SJohn. Give yourself credit. :-)

-- 
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | http://www.telelists.com
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Something interesting

| > Are you referring to WW-style gaming?  I don't know much about that;
| > it never appealed to me.
| 
| I don't think there's a distinct "WW-style" of gaming. It's roleplaying,
| like anything else. 

Well, but there is a distinct WW-Style of game writing and design, and that
can at least imply a "baseline" gaming style (and in turn, the distinctive
"sub-styles" of each separate game-line, since Changeling, for example, has
a very different feel from Vampire).

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Something interesting

edhogg@equus.demon.co.uk wrote:
> 
> The subject matter(s) and writing promote a certain world view in the
> game, most RPGs do this, Call of Cthulhu should have a distinct feel
> from Star Wars, but the feeling in the WW line tends to put a wheen of
> folk off.

Oh, really? Why? Could you refer to a book printed in the last two years
which has an example of the writing style that puts people off?

I'm honestly curious.

-- 
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | http://www.telelists.com
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Something interesting

Tangent@concentric.net wrote:
> The question is... which is the lesser evil, letting the Abolath rule
> the world... or letting this man gain power that will make him pretty
> much unkillable (and in turn probably try and gain control over the
> world). :)

At this point the players rewire your brain to make them both doable,
a la The Kobayashi Maru. :-)

Slightly more seriously, from your description, I'd say go after the
Abolath, then the arch-foe.  In my paradigm, the characters might
learn something doing the former to help them deal with the arch-foe.
How to build an Arrow Loop of Mortality from the plans of the Tower
of Domination, say. :-)

The point's to have fun, not cheese them off by making them feel
overwhelmed and inadequate.

Steve
-- 
http://www.stevebarr.com
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