Gaming with spouse...

At 02:05 PM 9/7/99 -0500, edhogg@equus.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>Wives aren't allowed to play in their husband's roleplaying games?
>
>I only GMed my wife a few times, and that was years ago, but does anyone
>in this situation ever notice stress from real-life relationships
>intruding into games? It never happened with us but I wondered about it
>in the long term.
>
>And does marriage counter the "GM's Girl/Boyfriend" syndrome?
>
I've GMed for my husband numerous times now.  It began before we dated,
when I ran a Champions game.  Then were dating during my WW campaign.  Now
we are married and he's playing in my new Amber campaign.  I'd say he likes
my games -- he refused to play Amber for *years* but was willing to try my
game when I decided to run one.

I don't think I'm unfair with respect to Kevin's character -- Jenn, Josh,
correct me if I'm wrong.  I try not to give him any more or less of the
game than anyone else.  I try to tailor my games so that each character
gets their time to shine.

I also find that it is often a stress-relief from real life.  Gives us a
chance to connect a bit and have fun, instead of dealing with real life
trauma.  *smile*  I'm glad we can game together.

D.
+-------------------------------------------------+
|    Deb Allen (Atwood?) / D-Singer / Tryslora    |
|     d-singer@albany.net / deb_allen@fac.com     |
|         http://www.albany.net/~d-singer         |
+-------------------------------------------------+
|    The Black Road -- an Amber DRPG Convention   |
|           http://www.theblackroad.org           |
+-------------------------------------------------+
| "You must never run from anything immortal.  It |
|  attracts their attention."                     |
|      - _The_Last_Unicorn_                       |
+-------------------------------------------------+

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Deb Allen wrote:

> I've GMed for my husband numerous times now.  It began before we dated,
> when I ran a Champions game.  Then were dating during my WW campaign.  Now
> we are married and he's playing in my new Amber campaign.  I'd say he likes
> my games -- he refused to play Amber for *years* but was willing to try my
> game when I decided to run one.
> 
> I don't think I'm unfair with respect to Kevin's character -- Jenn, Josh,
> correct me if I'm wrong.  I try not to give him any more or less of the
> game than anyone else.  I try to tailor my games so that each character
> gets their time to shine.
> 
> I also find that it is often a stress-relief from real life.  Gives us a
> chance to connect a bit and have fun, instead of dealing with real life
> trauma.  *smile*  I'm glad we can game together.

Well....I would have stayed silent, except that you invoked my
name *smile*, but I'd have to agree that I don't see Kevin
getting any favoritism as far as I can tell. I've only been to
one session of the current game to date, but I've been gaming
with you for so long now, that I'd think I would have noticed
that element.

What I've been wondering for the last couple of posts in this
thread is if anyone finds the converse of the original question
is true.....that a GM-spouse (boyfriend/girlfriend, lover, etc.)
sets higher standards for their other half than the other
players....

Jenn
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Gaming with spouse...

| What I've been wondering for the last couple of posts in this
| thread is if anyone finds the converse of the original question
| is true.....that a GM-spouse (boyfriend/girlfriend, lover, etc.)
| sets higher standards for their other half than the other
| players....

I've seen that with some other couples, but I've also noticed a trend:
They're always couples with some kind of "power" issues both at and away
from the gaming table. It's an ugly truth that some particularly bad GMs
are particuarly bad because they're power-tripping weasels, so basically
what you get in THAT case is a power-tripping weasel combining two types of
power-tripping at once.

My previous response remains universal: It's only a problem if the GM is a
bad one, for whatever reason. But yeah, I've seen it happen.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Gaming with spouse...

Every one of my girlfriends has played in a game I ran at one point or
another, and if anything, I've noticed that I used to be a bit harder on
ther characters than on others, simply because I know them so well  I'd set
higher standards for their role-playing abilities.  I think that's mostly
gone - ahh, high school gaming.  You gotta love it.

Interestingly enough, one of my major NPCs and a female player carried out
an extended relationship long before I began dating the player in question.
 Unusual.

Chris

0o-------------------------------o0o-------------------------------o0
         Chris Brown; Putting the D'oh! in Aikido      
0o------------------------------o0o--------------------------------o0
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Gaming with spouse...

| Interestingly enough, one of my major NPCs and a female player carried
out
| an extended relationship long before I began dating the player in
question.
|  Unusual.

No it isn't.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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Gaming with spouse...

At 04:22 PM 9/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>| Interestingly enough, one of my major NPCs and a female player carried
>out
>| an extended relationship long before I began dating the player in
>question.
>|  Unusual.
>
>No it isn't.

Hmm- discussion item!

In this case, the player and I apparently had no real inkling of any such
feelings, but it seemed to come out in the game.  Has anyone else seen this
to be the case?  Not the specific situation, but - well - less apparent
emotions / thoughts / etc. coming out in-game instead of in-reality?  And
does anyone have any ideas why?

Chris
0o-------------------------------o0o-------------------------------o0
         Chris Brown; Putting the D'oh! in Aikido      
0o------------------------------o0o--------------------------------o0
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Gaming with spouse...

From: Requiem 
>In this case, the player and I apparently had no real inkling of any such
>feelings, but it seemed to come out in the game.  Has anyone else seen this
>to be the case?  Not the specific situation, but - well - less apparent
>emotions / thoughts / etc. coming out in-game instead of in-reality?  And
>does anyone have any ideas why?
>
Many people's characters are aspects of their own personality.  In an
imaginary world you have the freedom to explore situations you'll never
encounter in real life.  This means that the subconscious "I can't say that"
inhibitors don't get triggered because another part of you is saying "relax,
it's not real (but it could be if we don't let that damn conscious mind
screw it up)".

I've seen some tight-lipped, staunch lads turn out to be intelligent,
perceptive people once they realised the people they were with were
_expected_ them to be themselves.  Finding out who someone could be under
the mask is one of the things I enjoy about role-playing.  There's certainly
some players I'll never lend money to  :-)

Chris.

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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:

>
>Except that I said nothing patently nasty. Karen did the attacking after I
>very tastefully avoided attacking somebody else who offended me.

Oh, puh-leeze.  There was a discussion of in-game romances that turned
into real-life romances, and when my husband said that was a reason to
avoid in-game romances, you said *you* had no trouble keeping it in your
pants (must be hard to type with those pants on your head....)  Call me
easily offended, but strangely enough I find that a particularly nasty
insinuation.

Especially given your history of unsolicited, unprovoked rudeness to me on
Usenet. (And in a situation where there could be *no* ambiguity, as a
quick Deja search will demonstrate.)

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Gaming with spouse...

jezuz christ, I'm a subscriber to the Palladium Mailing List and over there
we just got through with something like this where someone either
intentionally or not insults someone else.  Then it turns into a huge
finger-pointing debate which just causes more trouble.  If I read a message
and feel insulted, I just delete the message or move on.  I mean, christ,
why do people need to always soothe their bruised egos?  If someone insults
me, I feel that they're obviously a jerk, and usually in no position to
criticise me, and therefor whatever they say usually holds no water.  Can't
we let things like this go?  It just wastes bandwidth and causes people like
me to be disgusted.  Please, be mature.
--
-jW

_______________
ICQ: 44460330
IM: jmeswest

----------
>From: "Karen J. Cravens" 
>To: gmast@phoenyx.net
>Subject: Re: GM: Gaming with spouse...
>Date: Thu, Sep 9, 1999, 11:59 AM
>

> On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Except that I said nothing patently nasty. Karen did the attacking after I
>>very tastefully avoided attacking somebody else who offended me.
>
> Oh, puh-leeze.  There was a discussion of in-game romances that turned
> into real-life romances, and when my husband said that was a reason to
> avoid in-game romances, you said *you* had no trouble keeping it in your
> pants (must be hard to type with those pants on your head....)  Call me
> easily offended, but strangely enough I find that a particularly nasty
> insinuation.
>
> Especially given your history of unsolicited, unprovoked rudeness to me on
> Usenet. (And in a situation where there could be *no* ambiguity, as a
> quick Deja search will demonstrate.)
>
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Gaming with spouse...

| that their "audience" are a lot of twits if they don't take it as a
joke.
| As far as I'm concerned, jokes like that go over like lead balloons, so
I

A further clarification, here: It most definitely was NOT a joke, and I
never claimed that it was. I was being serious, and as scrupulously polite
about it as the circumstances warranted. That Karen took it in the wrong
spirit and felt the need to attack me for it is regrettable, but also Not
My Problem.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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| >Except that I said nothing patently nasty. Karen did the attacking
after I
| >very tastefully avoided attacking somebody else who offended me.
| 
| Oh, puh-leeze. 

Try getting over it.

| Especially given your history of unsolicited, unprovoked rudeness to me
on
| Usenet. (And in a situation where there could be *no* ambiguity, as a
| quick Deja search will demonstrate.)

I don't think my rudeness to you has ever been ambiguous, either. Or
unjustified.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:

>I don't think my rudeness to you has ever been ambiguous, either. Or
>unjustified.

Well, that's because you're rather lacking in social skills.  After all,
if you weren't, you wouldn't get into such pickles, would you?

By way of example do feel free to review the "Gamers' Web design
evaluation" thread on rec.games.frp.misc on Deja.  Here's a sample.  We
had been having a (rational up to that point) discussion of whether or not
blinking text and animated GIF's were good site design.  I said:

>| As long as they do their thing once or twice and then STOP.  No
>| motion is unobtrusive.  Is a tiny flicker at the edge of your
>| focus while you're trying to read something really any better
>| than in-your-face animation?
 
And you suddenly felt compelled to go postal:

>Man, again with THAT line of thinking. Do you people read in cocoons? I
>finish half the novels I read every week while riding a city bus -
>crying babies, arguments, near-miss traffic accidents, police sirens,
>and more species of very bright, flashing lights that you can imagine.
>BUT, since I have an IQ _above_ that of a lizard or small household pet,
>I am not distracted . . .

I responded with:

> And I get motion sickness iff I try to read in a moving vehicle. It's
> not IQ-linked, actually.
> 
> I did not intend to insult *you*.  Was it necessary for you to
> insult *me*?

If you felt justified then, you certainly didn't take the opportunity to
assert it.

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Gaming with spouse...

| >I don't think my rudeness to you has ever been ambiguous, either. Or
| >unjustified.
| 
| Well, that's because you're rather lacking in social skills.  After all,
| if you weren't, you wouldn't get into such pickles, would you?

I'm not in one. I'm simply explaining myself. As you've said before, it is
never accidental. I find your husband offensive. I find you needlessly
DE-fensive.

[Creepy Obsessive Thing Snipped]

Lady, if you want my autograph, just write and ask, okay? No need to stalk
me.

| If you felt justified then, you certainly didn't take the opportunity to
| assert it.

I wasn't being rude, then. I was being clear.

If you wish to continue this, I suggest YOU stop being rude, and take it
to private email where it belongs.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:

>I'm not in one. I'm simply explaining myself. As you've said before, it is
>never accidental. I find your husband offensive. I find you needlessly
>DE-fensive.

Funny, a moment ago you were the picture of offended innocence.

>Lady, if you want my autograph, just write and ask, okay? No need to stalk
>me.

Heh.  Visiting Deja to confirm something is hardly "stalking."  You're
merely upset that your words can come back to haunt you.  If it bothers
you, use an x-no-archive.

>I wasn't being rude, then. I was being clear.

Oddly enough, many people find the implication that they have the "IQ of a
lizard or small household pet" rude.  Perhaps you're using a different
dictionary than the rest of us.

>If you wish to continue this, I suggest YOU stop being rude, and take it
>to private email where it belongs.

Oh, I'm merely being clear.

You say something in public, you should have the guts to stand by it in
public.  I do.



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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:

> And then there's my own situation: Married and perfectly capable of
> keeping it in my pants ;)

I'm perfectly capable of such myself, but I don't need any temptation, an
image of impropriety, or an annoyed wife. 

--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net)
Madness takes it's toll...please have exact change.

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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:
> Except that I said nothing patently nasty. Karen did the attacking after I
> very tastefully avoided attacking somebody else who offended me.

Wait a second... you're saying *I* offended *you*?

--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net)
A man about to speak the truth should keep one foot in the stirrup.

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| > And then there's my own situation: Married and perfectly capable of
| > keeping it in my pants ;)
| 
| I'm perfectly capable of such myself, but I don't need any temptation,
an
| image of impropriety, or an annoyed wife. 

Egad. That's a perfectly reasonable response. Thank you.

I've discovered that I don't need your wife annoyed, either ;)

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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| On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:
| > Except that I said nothing patently nasty. Karen did the attacking
after I
| > very tastefully avoided attacking somebody else who offended me.
| 
| Wait a second... you're saying *I* offended *you*?

You had, yes. Could we PLEASE move this to private email? Pretty please?

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:

>| Wait a second... you're saying *I* offended *you*?
>
>You had, yes. Could we PLEASE move this to private email? Pretty please?

Don't worry; in about three more messages he will have said "Boy, I should
have skimmed the whole thread first..."

-- 
Karen J. Cravens  silver@phoenyx.net
The Dog Ate My Sketchbook:  http://silver.phoenyx.net/


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I think I've created a monster here.

Or is the phrase opened the genie's bottle? *grin*

You've posted more this past week than the past two years combined. :)

Rob
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Karen J. Cravens wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, RiverRat wrote:
> 
This wasn't specifically directed to me, but I'm an "anyone," so here
goes. It annoys all h*ll out of me when somebody says something patently
nasty -- and then instead of apologizing -- makes things that much worse
by insists that their "audience" are a lot of twits if they don't take
it as a joke. As far as I'm concerned, jokes like that go over like lead
balloons, so I guess Karen can scoot over on the twit bench to make room
for one more.
 
And they all moved away from me there on the twit bench, giving me the
hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean, nasty things 'til I said, "And
creatin' a nuisance."  Then they all came back, shook my hand, and we
had a great time on the twit bench, talkin' about crime, mother
stabbing, father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking
about on the twit bench.

--
Karen "excepting Alice" Cravens  silver@phoenyx.net
The Dog Ate My Sketchbook:  http://silver.phoenyx.net/


I do think all of you are protesting too much.

Trust me. I've had a bad week. My muffler fell off my car, my father has
been a bloody bastard at times, and work is pure hell.

I read that e-mail and didn't bat an eye at it.

There wasn't anything OFFENSIVE about it. The only real offense that has
started is that you are all complaining about it so much! (And trust me,
finding 65 messages on your e-mail is a surprise! As well as finding out
that once again the Homeworld Demo failed to load... *grumble*)

My suggestion? Think of me skipping through the street with a basket
full of flowers on one arm, tossing flowers to either side. And me a
grown man. *grin* If that doesn't drive away the annoyance factor, then
you need a strong drink!

Rob, a lone loony GM
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 sjohn@io.com wrote:

> Egad. That's a perfectly reasonable response. Thank you.

When I wrote that, I had no idea that I had offended you, and weren't sure
if you meant to be offensive or not.  I chose to believe "not", thought
apparently it was too subtle for me.  

I meant to imply or insinuate nothing by my earlier statement, except to
express a personal fact about myself.  My apologies if my off-hand comment
came across as an insult... it wasn't meant to be anything of the sort.  

--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net)
Squirt guns don't squirt people, kids do.

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| I meant to imply or insinuate nothing by my earlier statement, except to
| express a personal fact about myself.  My apologies if my off-hand
comment
| came across as an insult... it wasn't meant to be anything of the sort. 


And my own apologies for expressing my offense in a way that spun off a
waste of bandwidth. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a good ruckus now and
then - but that's what Usenet is for. I hold mailing lists in a higher
regard ;)

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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> | that their "audience" are a lot of twits if they don't take it as a
> joke.
> | As far as I'm concerned, jokes like that go over like lead balloons, so
> I
>
> A further clarification, here: It most definitely was NOT a joke, and I
> never claimed that it was. I was being serious, and as scrupulously polite
> about it as the circumstances warranted. That Karen took it in the wrong
> spirit and felt the need to attack me for it is regrettable, but also Not
> My Problem.

Excuse me?!  Carl simply stated that romance threads make him uncomfortable
and he downplays that aspect in his games.  I don't see anything at all
wrong with that point of view, and I don't see why you felt you had to come
back with the declaration that you could control your urges -- with the
obvious implication that others cannot.  I can't see how that remark could
have been taken as anything other than rude -- there was nothing at all
polite about it.

And as far as that goes, you only have a problem if you want people to think
of you as something other than arrogant and ill-mannered.  That certainly is
the impression you've managed to give me, in any case.

RiverRat ~~ sratliff@zoomnet.net ~~ http://www.zoomnet.net/~sratliff/

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| Excuse me?! 

If you really want a response (and you aren't simply trolling), then
re-send this post to my private inbox, where it will be dealt with
appropriately. There will be no more of this wasting the list's time.

|| S. John Ross
|| Husband · Cook · Writer
|| In That Order
|| http://www.io.com/~sjohn/blue.htm · sjohn@io.com
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