I know superhero games aren't the most popular these days, but I know that enough listmembers have experience in this area they might have some insights. My crew around here has been itching for a superhero game, a good old-fashioned four-color (or as reasonable a facsimile as this crew can pull off, anyhow). The problem...what system? We refuse to use GURPS Supers, because we aren't THAT silly. Champions would be ideal, but it's math intensive, and while some of us can handle it, we have one or two relative novices in the group who would be lost. The more free-form alternatives also came up (i.e., the old Marvel Super Heroes, which we still have copies of floating around), which would be great for the inexperienced crowd, but would drive the more experienced folks (and the GM) into the asylum. Even Aberrant would work, if techno-types didn't get shafted so badly (and it wasn't so tied to its background, and...) So the question is: Does anybody know of a good "general audiences" set of rules which could pull off the genre flexibly, without requiring a scientific calculator? Or are we just plain screwed? ---Darth Stomper-- Dark Chairman, Stomper Institute for Thaumaturgy and Heronism (S.I.T.H) GURPS fan - GMAST-L Old One (once banished) Philosopher - Alternate Historian - General Crank email: bravado@mindspring.com web: http://www.mindspring.com//~bravado ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
> So the question is: Does anybody know of a good "general audiences" set of > rules which could pull off the genre flexibly, without requiring a > scientific calculator? Or are we just plain screwed? What about MEGS? It's the system they used for the old DC Heroes game, and which is now being used for Blood of Heroes. I've always loved the system and considered it a close second to Champions for my favorite. It works best at mid to higher power levels than it does at the street level. If you do go with this, I would recommend the Sidekick Sourcebook, which contains additional rules, and I would go to the DC Heroes RPG home page (sorry, I don't have a URL handy) and download a copy of the very excellent character generator that they have posted. Best, Dragonfly ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
Darth Stomper wrote: > Champions would be ideal, but it's math intensive, and while some of > us can handle it, we have one or two relative novices in the group > who would be lost. Sounds pretty normal for a Champions group. Can you help the others along, perhaps by giving them relatively simple characters and assigning them each a 'math buddy?' > So the question is: Does anybody know of a good "general audiences" set of > rules which could pull off the genre flexibly, without requiring a > scientific calculator? Or are we just plain screwed? Well, you could try Feng Shui. A supers addition for FS. http://members.aol.com/Morix/fssupers.html http://www.stevebarr.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/barrst/goto.pl?gaming (scroll down for FS links) Steve -- http://www.stevebarr.com "Fruit drinks that require you disarm the poison needle hidden in the lid rarely sell well." http://www.brunching.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
> > Champions would be ideal, but it's math intensive, and while some of > > us can handle it, we have one or two relative novices in the group > > who would be lost. > > Sounds pretty normal for a Champions group. Can you help the others > along, perhaps by giving them relatively simple characters and > assigning them each a 'math buddy?' Does anyone in the group have (or is willing to buy) Hero Creator or Creation Workshop? Since most of the math is in character creation (at least that's where I've had to watch it), letting the computer take care of the calculations might help. I've been running Hero Creator for about a year, and haven't had any real problems. Leah ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
> The new engine for Marvel Superheroes is out, now. I don't know if > you've seen it, but it uses a deck of cards instead of dice to generate > random values. It sounds kind of cool, but I'm afraid I don't know anything > more about it. I picked up a used Marvel Saga because a friend of mine is running it at GenCon this year. Haven't had a chance to play with the system yet, but just on reading I'm not that impressed. (The Fate Deck was still in the plastic wrap, apparently the original owner wasn't impressed with it either.) Leah ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
At 10:04 AM 7/5/00 -0500, Darth Stomper wrote: > >So the question is: Does anybody know of a good "general audiences" set of >rules which could pull off the genre flexibly, without requiring a >scientific calculator? Or are we just plain screwed? > I have to be honest... I'd use Champions. But then, I teethed on Champions. And even being the sort of person who cheerfully tosses rules out the window, when I was a kid and had trouble remembering which die was which in AD&D, I could write up Champs characters by the dozen. There are spreadsheets and character generators around. And a newbie can sit down with someone who knows better and describe the character, and have someone else crunch the numbers. It all works out in the longrun. I've seen Champions played abstractly. Taking the dice down to a minimum. Understanding the dice for combat in Champs isn't too tough (certainly ain't AD&D!), so its not bad for newbies. I think it works well, especially if you have fun creating an angsty plot oriented character oriented game so that there's enough combat to keep the genre flavor, but not so much that it overpowers everything. Wow... okay, its beena while since I've done superhero gaming. I'm getting the itch again. *grins* Another possible choice is Superworld, if you can find it (since its rather out of print, far as I know). It's from the Chaosium style of games, which means that the skills and things are very intuitive in how they work. You gain experience in a skill by doing it successfully, and you're more likely to improve the newer you are at something... a nice sliding scale. Plus its all in percentiles, which are instictively easy to understand (a 50% chance to make something work is simpler to understand than rolling an 11 on 3d6!). My two cents (or two recommendations). D. +-------------------------------------------------+ | Deb Allen (Atwood?) / D-Singer / Tryslora | | d-singer@hall-of-mirrors.com | | http://www.hall-of-mirrors.com | +-------------------------------------------------+ | The Black Road -- an Amber DRPG Convention | | http://www.theblackroad.org | +-------------------------------------------------+ | "You must never run from anything immortal. It | | attracts their attention." | | - _The_Last_Unicorn_ | +-------------------------------------------------+ ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
I've picked up the Marvel SAGA system, and am fairly impressed with it. Dragonlance SAGA looked good for a pick-up game, but not long term game campaigns; SAGA fits marvel very well, however. It's got the strength to actually differentiate between heroes, so you can answer "Who really is stronger", and still have a fast and flexible system, something that Champions lacks, IMHO. I GM'd Champs for years, btw, as well as the original Marvel game, and Villians and Vigilantes ( My first RPG purchase :) ). I like Marvel SAGA over the others, but I no longer have groups that like four color action. It's worth picking up and trying, at least. Darkechilde darkchil@rea-alp.com ICQ#12901136 -----Original Message----- From: gmast-error@phoenyx.net [mailto:gmast-error@phoenyx.net]On Behalf Of Darth Stomper Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 10:05 AM To: gmast@phoenyx.net Subject: GM: Superhero systems? I know superhero games aren't the most popular these days, but I know that enough listmembers have experience in this area they might have some insights. My crew around here has been itching for a superhero game, a good old-fashioned four-color (or as reasonable a facsimile as this crew can pull off, anyhow). The problem...what system? We refuse to use GURPS Supers, because we aren't THAT silly. Champions would be ideal, but it's math intensive, and while some of us can handle it, we have one or two relative novices in the group who would be lost. The more free-form alternatives also came up (i.e., the old Marvel Super Heroes, which we still have copies of floating around), which would be great for the inexperienced crowd, but would drive the more experienced folks (and the GM) into the asylum. Even Aberrant would work, if techno-types didn't get shafted so badly (and it wasn't so tied to its background, and...) So the question is: Does anybody know of a good "general audiences" set of rules which could pull off the genre flexibly, without requiring a scientific calculator? Or are we just plain screwed? ---Darth Stomper-- Dark Chairman, Stomper Institute for Thaumaturgy and Heronism (S.I.T.H) GURPS fan - GMAST-L Old One (once banished) Philosopher - Alternate Historian - General Crank email: bravado@mindspring.com web: http://www.mindspring.com//~bravado ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
I guess I don't have anything really constructive to add to this mix, but have you tried FUDGE? I've found that the rule systems matter less than the GM for Superhero games more than any other genre I've played. V&V is horrible to implement, but I played a few times with its creator (whose name escapes me) and it was great. The last time I played Champions was 2nd or 3rd edition. The quote (I think from this list), "Don't get that old guy mad. He's blind and crippled. Do you realize how powerful that makes him?!" sums up the inevitable gamesmanship to which Champions drives you. I don't know why the Marvel systems would drive one insane, I thought they were both clever and readily adaptable to 4 color play. They also have the advantage of a game-ready universe if you want to use it. Didn't ICE have a system? :) Joe _____________________________________________________________ wotmania: Your number one source for The Wheel of Time. http://wotmania.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
Well, I'm a mathematician by nature so the numbers in Champions never did frighten me. I maintain that for that genre Champions is the best system going - though I do agree you have to watch the maths more than is optimal for an RPG. However in what other game could you need to roll 30d6 to resolve an action? (In that case it was a 30d6 Power Neutralisation - my character, the [ok - a] Phoenix, had to absorb a massive fireblast aimed at Big Ben.) We normally play at the 60 active points for 12d6 level, but things got a bit out of hand that time.... Needing to roll 30d6 really does give you the tactile sensation of playing at the Super level. However, you can use Torg at the Super level if you like. It works provided everyone really roleplays in the genre. Rgds, Michael. ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
>I know superhero games aren't the most popular these days, but I know that >enough listmembers have experience in this area they might have some >insights. > >My crew around here has been itching for a superhero game, a good >old-fashioned four-color (or as reasonable a facsimile as this crew can pull >off, anyhow). The problem...what system? We refuse to use GURPS Supers, >because we aren't THAT silly. Champions would be ideal, but it's math >intensive, and while some of us can handle it, we have one or two relative >novices in the group who would be lost. The more free-form alternatives >also came up (i.e., the old Marvel Super Heroes, which we still have copies >of floating around), which would be great for the inexperienced crowd, but >would drive the more experienced folks (and the GM) into the asylum. Even >Aberrant would work, if techno-types didn't get shafted so badly (and it >wasn't so tied to its background, and...) > >So the question is: Does anybody know of a good "general audiences" set of >rules which could pull off the genre flexibly, without requiring a >scientific calculator? Or are we just plain screwed?i have played MSH, MSH advanced, Providence, Underground, GURPS, Deadlands, TMNT, and several of the WoD games. i have merely read DC Heroes, Champions, CORPS, Sol, Theatrix (though we have a Theatrix 4-color supers game in the works--did chargen last time), Aberrant, Brave New World, DL5A, and Xena&Herc. i not only can't stand GURPS, i think it's a fundamentally flawed system. i find that both CORPS and Sol cover the same ground, and then some, in terms of appropriate genres/settings, and do it with a tenth the complexity and a tenth the pagecount. and with less need to add more stuff just to extend it to a new genre. i can't stand the Storyteller system, even with the revisions found in the latest games. while it produces fewer outright bogus results (such as the likelihood of spectacular failure going up with increasing skill in difficult situations), it still fails several necessary tests for a game system, for me. most importantly, it's not simple enough to reap the benefits of a simple system (fast, easy use, deferring to narration over mechanical interpretation), nor is it detailed enough to reap the benefits of a detailed system (specific results, high mechanical verissimilitude), but it is able to reap most of the shortcomings of both extremes (lack of detailed or specific results to guide the SG, too much effort for simple task resolution). i find Champions too much game for 4-color supers. i want as little interference from the mechanics (and as little reference to them) as possible in that genre, even more so than in most. GURPS is worse (at least Hero provides the right results, even if it is too much effort to get them, IMHO). CORPS is passable, but, like GURPS, it doesn't work well for genres with low lethality or wide ranges of power (though it's better on both counts). it would be great for a pulp-level supers game. i *would* recommend getting ahold of Providence and taking a look. you probably only want the Main Rule Book, for your use. it's a pretty great system with some of the advantages of a dicepool system but more mathematically sound than many. and a good selection of superpowers which seem well-balanced and -defined in our (admittedly) limited experience. and it runs a good middle ground in the complexity, IMHO--not as numbery as Hero or GURPS with lots of options, but a step or two up from Brave New World or MSH. -- Nat Barmore nbarmore@students.wisc.edu ph.:6082513090 ---------------------------------------------------------------- GMAST Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
