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TanGent
Robert A. Howard

Sat

Aug 26
2000

12:24Z

3rd Ed. AD&D

Well, what do you all think of the new rules for D&D 3rd edition?

Personally, I like much of what I see. If you take 2nd ed. to 1st, 2nd edition was a face lift, taking out a few wrinkles and padding up a weak system.

3rd edition would be more like a heart transplant. :) Or maybe liver... the heart is still in the game. Just the game is quite different.

One thing I enjoyed was the opposed skill rolls. White Wolf attempted something like this and failed. It is too easy for a barely-talented person with luck and high stats to outdo someone who's the world's expert but not necessarily the best stat-wise. How else can you explain that someone with 1 dot in musical instrument and 5 dots in (let's say Dex.) could play a song as good as someone with 5 dots in musical instrument and 1 dot in Dex? :)

The skill level progression is much more uniform. Allowing anyone to gain thieving abilities is also something I agree with - there is no reason a mage cannot be sneaky and silent while trying to get into position to cast his spell. Before now, it was up to the whims of the GM.

Combat, what I've seen of it, also looks streamlined. No more factoring in negative ACs. Instead, it goes from AC 10 on *up*. Ac -10 would now be something like AC 30. And they further sub-divide it into Dex, Magical, Natural, and Armor defenses, so the ability of Crossbows to punch through armor can be more accurately used - a pixie is not well armored but is quite agile and thus harder to hit than someone with a comperable AC that came about because of armor.

And armor now affects Dex! The player must decide: Plate mail and no dex? Or only Chain and a minor dex penalty? And so forth.

The ability to increase ability stats as you level is also much welcome in the game. It has always irked me that the only way to increase stats is to age. No matter how many weights a wizard lifts, his strength of 5 is eternal unless altered with magic. ;) Now... now it's possible to slowly increase stats.

I must admit, there are some things I don't like as much. Having most attacks happen equally quickly - a casting of a spell can take as much time (or little) as swinging a short sword and as attacking with a pike. All take one action. And higher level spells don't take a little longer to cast than lower level spells. One of my favorite memories is of the ground rushing to grab an Arch-wizard as he started casting "Time Stop". Nine segments of pure hell as people hoped and prayed to get their initiative across in time to stop the spell... they failed. :) Hopefully the DMG 3rd ed. will have varient initiative systems.

And I'm not so sure I like the ability of everyone to multi-class. The PH did not go into how *long* it takes someone to become a wizard as a second class (or a Priest or a Paladin, or whatever). It was a little vague there.

But there are far fewer negatives to the positives. In all, I enjoy the new rules and think they will help keep me interested in D&D instead of trying to lure my group over to a game of Werewolf or Changeling or Dark Conspiracies. ;)

So, what are your impressions of 3rd ed. D&D?

Rob
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ChrisTutty
Chris Tutty

Sat

Aug 26
2000

14:06Z

3rd Ed. AD&D

From: "Tangent" 
> Well, what do you all think of the new rules for D&D 3rd edition?
>
> Personally, I like much of what I see.

If you're interested in details, rpg-create (rpg-create@egroups.com) has
just hacked it up, chewed the pieces, spat the remains into a bowl and
swilled it around to see what floats to the top.  Hmm, that might be a bit
gross, but then portions of the 'discussion' were just as unpleasant.

There is agreement that there are improvements, but those who dislike it's
mechanics (hit points and armour class primarily) don't seem to find
worthwhile improvement.  Those who currently play AD&D all seem to agree
that it's a solid and useful improvement.  The weapons and armour list got
trashed fairly thoroughly, but there was reference to at least one
web-published rebuild for historical accuracy and sensibleness (ie, no
thirty pound double-bladed swords) so you should be able to cut the worst
out of it.

Personally I just tuned out.  The reasons I quit AD&D were because the game
wouldn't support what the players wanted their characters to become - the
class system was just too two-dimensional and restrictive.  I had other
problems with it too and can't see any rebuild which is still AD&D doing
what I want.

And for those times when we just want to relax and monster-bash we play AD&D
because we know the rules and have the manuals.  3E confuses that.

Chris Tutty

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RicardoOSkimmerD
Ricardo, O Skimmer da Net

Mon

Aug 28
2000

16:48Z

White Wolf opposed skill rolls

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Tangent wrote:

(...)
> One thing I enjoyed was the opposed skill rolls. White Wolf attempted something like this and failed. It is too easy for a barely-talented person with luck and high stats to outdo someone who's the world's expert but not necessarily the best stat-wise. How else can you explain that someone with 1 dot in musical instrument and 5 dots in (let's say Dex.) could play a song as good as someone with 5 dots in musical instrument and 1 dot in Dex? :)
(...)
> 
> Rob

  Hi! I know this is kinda off-topic for the discussion group AND the main
purpose of Tangent's e-mail, but I just want to drop a sugestion I'm
starting to use to fix the referred problem of opposed skill rolls.

  In opposed skill rolls the difference in *skill levels* (notice that
stats don't come into account) of the two contestants count as extra
successes to the character with the higher skill level. As so, the
character with 1 dot in Dex and 5 in Musical Instruments had 4 extra
successes when contesting against someone with 5 in Dex and 1 in Musical.
  Attention that, in the way I'm using these extra successes, they only
count if the player rolls at least one success. If he fails, the extra
successes don't count and the player can only pray for the other player to
fail as well. If he botches -- well, he's doomed!

Just my input,
  Ric

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