Helping aspiring GMs

Changing the subject slightly (from religion):

One of my players has approached me about game-mastering her own games. 
She's never game-mastered before, so I don't know what to tell her. I shared 
some of my experiences and am willing to play in some "trial games" with her 
and another experienced GM.

Any additional advice I can give her?

Joel
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Helping aspiring GMs

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Joel Arellano wrote:

> Changing the subject slightly (from religion):

> One of my players has approached me about game-mastering her own
> games.  She's never game-mastered before, so I don't know what to
> tell her. I shared some of my experiences and am willing to play in
> some "trial games" with her and another experienced GM.

> Any additional advice I can give her?

Plan as much as you can and then be willing to be flexible.

No game plan survives contact with the players.

Basically, know what you want to do with each session but be willing
to change your plans based on what the players do.

-- 
Michael Feldhusen
mike_f@io.com
http://www.io.com/~mike_f/

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Helping aspiring GMs

Thanks. Pretty much what I said to her.

I'm wondering if I should advise her to game-master a rules-light system 
like Fudge, or something slightly more complex like GURPS, the FUZION 
system, or D&D 3e. (We currently play in a fantasy campaign using the 3e 
rules.) I'm leaning towards the latter so she will have "support" from the 
rules until she gets use to "winging it."

Joel


>From: Michael Feldhusen 
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:48:27 cst
>
>Plan as much as you can and then be willing to be flexible.
>
>No game plan survives contact with the players.
>
>Basically, know what you want to do with each session but be willing
>to change your plans based on what the players do.
>
>--
>Michael Feldhusen


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It probably be best to use something a bit more spelled out like D&D3E or 
some such.  Unless she feels very adventurous I recommend a system she is 
comfortable playing.  That way she doesn't learn the rules as she run the 
game.  It tends to bog a game down when the GM is constantly looking up 
stuff.
And as much as I dislike modules and such, a canned adventure may be very 
useful.  It one less thing to worry about for a starting GM.

Rolando
Who learned to run GURPS the hard way!

On Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:42 AM, Joel Arellano 
[SMTP:joelarellano@hotmail.com] wrote:
| Thanks. Pretty much what I said to her.
|
| I'm wondering if I should advise her to game-master a rules-light system
| like Fudge, or something slightly more complex like GURPS, the FUZION
| system, or D&D 3e. (We currently play in a fantasy campaign using the 3e
| rules.) I'm leaning towards the latter so she will have "support" from 
the
| rules until she gets use to "winging it."
|
| Joel
|
|
| >From: Michael Feldhusen 
| >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:48:27 cst
| >
| >Plan as much as you can and then be willing to be flexible.
| >
| >No game plan survives contact with the players.
| >
| >Basically, know what you want to do with each session but be willing
| >to change your plans based on what the players do.
| >
| >--
| >Michael Feldhusen
|
|
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| GMAST Home Page:  http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
| 
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Helping aspiring GMs

I have to disagree that a GM should start with a more complex game system.
If she's trying to concentrate on GMing, why complicate that with having to
remember a lot of rules as well?  The best way to be a good GM is to just do
it and learn from your experience.

I don't buy the complex rules support a beginning GM argument.  GMing isn't
about rules as much as about running a game, providing a campaign, ruling
whether a PC can do something.  I don't think you need rules for this.  In
fact, I believe the fewer rules, the more realistic the campaign setting
will be.  If you have to use common sense in creating your campaign world
rather than fitting it into a rules system, I think it will come out better.
In my opinion a campaign world created without reference to any rules
system, perhaps as if it were being created as a setting for a novel, will
probably be better for it.

Pookey 

on 6/21/01 7:38 PM, shadoe@kscable.com at shadoe@kscable.com wrote:

> It probably be best to use something a bit more spelled out like D&D3E or
> some such.  Unless she feels very adventurous I recommend a system she is
> comfortable playing.  That way she doesn't learn the rules as she run the
> game.  It tends to bog a game down when the GM is constantly looking up
> stuff.
> And as much as I dislike modules and such, a canned adventure may be very
> useful.  It one less thing to worry about for a starting GM.
> 
> Rolando
> Who learned to run GURPS the hard way!
> 
> On Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:42 AM, Joel Arellano
> [SMTP:joelarellano@hotmail.com] wrote:
> | Thanks. Pretty much what I said to her.
> |
> | I'm wondering if I should advise her to game-master a rules-light system
> | like Fudge, or something slightly more complex like GURPS, the FUZION
> | system, or D&D 3e. (We currently play in a fantasy campaign using the 3e
> | rules.) I'm leaning towards the latter so she will have "support" from
> the
> | rules until she gets use to "winging it."
> |
> | Joel

-- 
Michael W. Shaffer
PGPKey: 0x253E28F3
http://www.geocities.com/pookey_shaffer/pookey.html


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Helping aspiring GMs

on 6/22/01 12:28 AM, Joel Arellano at joelarellano@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> One of my players has approached me about game-mastering her own games.
> She's never game-mastered before, so I don't know what to tell her. I shared
> some of my experiences and am willing to play in some "trial games" with her
> and another experienced GM.
> 
> Any additional advice I can give her?

(avec snipping)

    Well, she's played before, so that's good. Some day I hope to write an
actual full length book on this subject. But until then, my pointers are:

    1. It is of course going to be helpful to have as much planning as
possible, be it through a purchased or previously run adventure or whatever.
    2. Either the GM must be familiar with the rules (making a rules light
system advantageous) or the players must be willing to step in and mention
possible rules that should be applied.
    3. The ability to have flexibility in an adventure relies more upon
"winging it" the more flexible the adventure becomes. Since this is
something that comes with time, I would recommend either writing different
scenarios into the adventure itself, or just ensuring a fairly rigid game
(ie, your characters all get lost in this place, and there is only one path
out, etc.). It might be helpful to have a high level NPC or some such in the
game to help the GM more easily steer the group. This will of course be
fairly easily accomplished in games where the characters are given assigned
tasks (SLA industries, Heavy Gear, etc.).
    4. Practice, practice, practice!
    
    Hope it helps, 

    Zealot

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Helping aspiring GMs

Aditional advice for an aspiring GM:

1:  Know your world, and know it really well, becasue your players are
allowed to ask you anything they like about it and you need to answer
quickly.   You can't make up all the answers in advance, but you can have a
good enough grasp of the frame of reference to improvise when you need to.

2:  Have a list of unused NPC names to one side.   It is generally easy to
know what the attributes and skills of an NPC should be from the context, so
you can always make that much up when you suddelnly need one.   But thinking
of an NPC name in a hurry is incredibly difficult!

3:  Remember it is not your story: it is the PC's story.   You provide the
backdrop, the world for them to be in, but they say what their characters do
and it might not be what you expect.

4:   On the other hand, you need to have a long term story arc to guide them
along.   Just only guide, never force.   Never quest or geas a PC.

5:  Unles you are playing a Superheros campaighn, your PCs are not
indestructible.   If they do something really dumb the characters have to
die.

6:  However, this is a story.   No character should die simply from rolling
the wrong numers on dice.   If they do not do something really dumb they
should not get killed.   On the otherhand this can be done in such a way as
embarases them.   I remember a party which had to be rescued by their far
lower level henchwenchs (the all male party had recruited a female hench
each).   The GM made sure that the party were reminded of this for some
time afterwards...

7:  After each session ask for feedback, and listen to it.

Rgds,
Michael.


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At 8:55 PM -0600 6/21/01, Michael Orton wrote:
>3:  Remember it is not your story: it is the PC's story.   You provide the
>backdrop, the world for them to be in, but they say what their characters do
>and it might not be what you expect.

If only someone had told me this when I was first starting out. I 
fell into so many traps by outlining an adventure based on assumed 
character actions and player choices.

When designing adventures, try to establish "environments of 
opportunities" rather than plot outlines. List the obstacles the 
party will face and be prepared for the players to find ways around 
them you haven't thought of. They may come up with an ingenious way 
to circumvent a fight you had laid in their path. Let them. You can 
always get even later.

Also, don't obsess over making every adventure just the right level 
of challenge. I used to inadvertently sabotage my own games because I 
wanted the party to walk away with roughly 10% of their resources 
intact every time, certainly no more than 20%. Some adventures might 
turn into cake-walks, others might be disastrous. Let them. 
Plausibility and consistency are far greater tools in creating a 
dramatic and exciting campaign than "action movie" endings.

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From: "Brian Koppi" 
> Also, don't obsess over making every adventure just the right level 
> of challenge. I used to inadvertently sabotage my own games because I 
> wanted the party to walk away with roughly 10% of their resources 
> intact every time, certainly no more than 20%. Some adventures might 
> turn into cake-walks, others might be disastrous. Let them. 
> Plausibility and consistency are far greater tools in creating a 
> dramatic and exciting campaign than "action movie" endings.
> 
Oh yeah.  I've had long-term players take new players aside
and explain that "this campaign is real - some of the stuff you'll
encounter is far too powerful to approach and if everyone else
suddenly disappears it's a clue to start running".  The only rule
I followed was that they would never be ambushed by a creature
too powerful for them to fight, assuming reasonable caution
by the players.

On the other hand making mince-meat of an orc war party 
without breaking a sweat is a good way for the players to look 
back on how powerful they've become - it provides a frame 
of reference that's grounded in the whole campaign, rather 
than a subset carefully designed to challenge but not destroy 
them.

Chris Tutty

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From: "Michael Orton" 
> 1:  Know your world, and know it really well, becasue your players are
> allowed to ask you anything they like about it and you need to answer
> quickly.   You can't make up all the answers in advance, but you can have a
> good enough grasp of the frame of reference to improvise when you need to.
> 
Has someone already mentioned "Don't be afraid to say you don't know".

While it's important to be in control and have all your answers ready
there are times when the players make such a sudden turn that you
just can't respond.  I think it's important to develop a rapport with 
the players that let's you say "I really hadn't planned for that and at 
the stage you're at now I can't just make it up as you go along.  
Would it be ok if you explored in another direction until next week, 
when I'll have that area detailed.  For now we can say that Blurg 
senses uncertain danger and doesn't feel comfortable proceeding 
without checking out a retreat path".

If it's done quickly and well the players can maintain immersion
and the GM doesn't make a silly mistake that breaks the rest of the
plot.

Chris Tutty


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>From: Brian Koppi 
>If only someone had told me this when I was first starting out. I
>fell into so many traps by outlining an adventure based on assumed
>character actions and player choices.

Amen. A little over ten years ago, I had a hard lesson on this one. It was 
Shadowrun and I was running the original Harlequin book. This one interlude 
scene required that the players get set up, and are trapped and under heavy 
fire. Suddenly, a van rolls up driven by a total stranger, yelling, "Get 
in!" The plot at this point hinged on the fact that the PCs would 
"obviously" decide to get in this van with a stranger to get out of this 
firefight.

It never occurred to me to question that as I read it through, but there way 
NO WAY my players were getting in that damn van. Sorry, but they'll take 
their chances with the cops.

I was stumped. The book SAID they'd get in the van. Hell, it REQUIRED that 
they get in the van. I panicked and forced them in. It sucked. The whole 
rest of that interlude was wasted. In retrospect, the grand meta-plot would 
not have suffered at all if they had simply avoided that whole mess, and I 
should have let them do it, but I simply hadn't thought it out ahead of time 
and wasn't ready for it.

So yeah--plan a lot, but never count on the players to perform ANY specific 
action. Give them lots of opportunities, but if they go off the wall and 
screw your entire plan... let them. Roll with it and keep going. So what if 
you have to throw away 10 pages of planned material? Your players will pat 
themselves on the back for months for their cleverness, and forever that 
will be one of their most fondly remembered moments.

Mike Jones
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Helping aspiring GMs

> I was stumped. The book SAID they'd get in the van. Hell, it REQUIRED that
> they get in the van. I panicked and forced them in. It sucked. The whole

Shadowrun has had that problem before.  I think they've put out three or
four adventures that involve babysitting a kidnapping victim who
inevitably causes troubles.  This number increases if you count niave
"friendlies" along on a run.

Most any party _I_ know of would duct tape/drug any victim into
motionlessness :), and they'd fight to do the same to any friendly that
couldn't be trusted to be compentant.


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At the risk of starting yet another schism.  (but at least it would be 
about gaming!) I don't think a free form system is a good first game system 
for a starting GM.  In any system the GM has to " (rule) whether a PC can 
do something."  With the rule light games there is a lot of vagueness on 
how to determine PC actions.  The new GM is already having to make stuff 
up, why add to the work load?  I have only ever seen 2 fudge games from two 
different people.  One was a little lost on how to do it and totally 
confused me on howfudge was run!  The other spent a great deal of time 
tinkering with the system "to get it right" it seemed.  From what I've seen 
rules light systems need a experienced GM and one willing to put in a lot 
of work.
I do agree that GM should be more about the game/campaign than the rules. 
 And I definitely would NOT recommend a rule intense system like Rolemaster 
or Champions.     So in the middle are games like GURPS or 3ED&D which have 
draw backs but usually provide something in black and white to fall back on 
if the GM can't figure out how to do something.
AND especially to the starting GM "Don't run something you haven't played!"

King Rolo speaks!

On Thursday, June 21, 2001 4:31 PM, Michael W. Shaffer 
[SMTP:mwshaffer@mediaone.net] wrote:
| I have to disagree that a GM should start with a more complex game 
system.
| If she's trying to concentrate on Gaming, why complicate that with having 
to
| remember a lot of rules as well?  The best way to be a good GM is to just 
do
| it and learn from your experience.
|
| I don't buy the complex rules support a beginning GM argument.  GMing 
isn't
| about rules as much as about running a game, providing a campaign, ruling
| whether a PC can do something.  I don't think you need rules for this. 
 In
| fact, I believe the fewer rules, the more realistic the campaign setting
| will be.  If you have to use common sense in creating your campaign world
| rather than fitting it into a rules system, I think it will come out 
better.
| In my opinion a campaign world created without reference to any rules
| system, perhaps as if it were being created as a setting for a novel, 
will
| probably be better for it.
|
| Pookey
|
| on 6/21/01 7:38 PM, shadoe@kscable.com at shadoe@kscable.com wrote:
|
| > It probably be best to use something a bit more spelled out like D&D3E 
or
| > some such.  Unless she feels very adventurous I recommend a system she 
is
| > comfortable playing.  That way she doesn't learn the rules as she run 
the
| > game.  It tends to bog a game down when the GM is constantly looking up
| > stuff.
| > And as much as I dislike modules and such, a canned adventure may be 
very
| > useful.  It one less thing to worry about for a starting GM.
| >
| > Rolando
| > Who learned to run GURPS the hard way!
| >
| > On Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:42 AM, Joel Arellano
| > [SMTP:joelarellano@hotmail.com] wrote:
| > | Thanks. Pretty much what I said to her.
| > |
| > | I'm wondering if I should advise her to game-master a rules-light 
system
| > | like Fudge, or something slightly more complex like GURPS, the FUZION
| > | system, or D&D 3e. (We currently play in a fantasy campaign using the 
3e
| > | rules.) I'm leaning towards the latter so she will have "support" 
from
| > the
| > | rules until she gets use to "winging it."
| > |
| > | Joel
|
| --
| Michael W. Shaffer
| PGPKey: 0x253E28F3
| http://www.geocities.com/pookey_shaffer/pookey.html
|
|
| ----------------------------------------------------------------
| GMAST Home Page:  http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/
| 
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Helping aspiring GMs

Zealot,

Thanks! All your points will be discussed. We've been discussing a game via 
e-mail. We've decided to stick to the "tried and true" D&D 3e (since that's 
used in one of current campaigns) instead of Fudge (which I used in two of 
my games) and we're in the process of selecting a low-level module. We're 
looking at the newer ones--obviously--since we don’t want to get into 
translation from AD&D 2e or--shudder--from the first edition. Both myself 
and the the D&D 3e GM have written down recommendations when she'll have to 
wing it. We're hoping to set up in the next couple of weeks a game with just 
the GMs and one other player.


>From: a & g 
>
>(avec snipping)
>
>     Well, she's played before, so that's good. Some day I hope to write an
>actual full length book on this subject. But until then, my pointers are:
>
>     1. It is of course going to be helpful to have as much planning as
>possible, be it through a purchased or previously run adventure or 
>whatever.
>     2. Either the GM must be familiar with the rules (making a rules light
>system advantageous) or the players must be willing to step in and mention
>possible rules that should be applied.
>     3. The ability to have flexibility in an adventure relies more upon
>"winging it" the more flexible the adventure becomes. Since this is
>something that comes with time, I would recommend either writing different
>scenarios into the adventure itself, or just ensuring a fairly rigid game
>(ie, your characters all get lost in this place, and there is only one path
>out, etc.). It might be helpful to have a high level NPC or some such in 
>the
>game to help the GM more easily steer the group. This will of course be
>fairly easily accomplished in games where the characters are given assigned
>tasks (SLA industries, Heavy Gear, etc.).
>     4. Practice, practice, practice!
>
>     Hope it helps,
>
>     Zealot

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Already discussed that option :)



>Has someone already mentioned "Don't be afraid to say you don't know".
>
>While it's important to be in control and have all your answers ready
>there are times when the players make such a sudden turn that you
>just can't respond.  I think it's important to develop a rapport with
>the players that let's you say "I really hadn't planned for that and at
>the stage you're at now I can't just make it up as you go along.
>Would it be ok if you explored in another direction until next week,
>when I'll have that area detailed.  For now we can say that Blurg
>senses uncertain danger and doesn't feel comfortable proceeding
>without checking out a retreat path".
>
>If it's done quickly and well the players can maintain immersion
>and the GM doesn't make a silly mistake that breaks the rest of the
>plot.
>
>Chris Tutty

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> my games) and we're in the process of selecting a low-level module. We're
> looking at the newer ones--obviously--since we don't want to get into
> translation from AD&D 2e or--shudder--from the first edition. Both myself

"Three Days To Kill" from Atlas Games (nee Penumbra) is a great low-level
module written expressly for 3e.  The only caveat I would mention is that it
is a very "gritty" scenario - basically it's a covert-ops hit (complete with
grenade launcher and low-light binoculars) translated over into D&D.
Players expecting something more traditional like "enter dungeon, find
kobolds, kill kobolds, gather treasure, disarm trap, repeat" may be unhappy
when forced to do a lot of tactical planning.

Joshua Knorr
Network Administrator
University of Chicago Human Resources

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We need help

Hi people

a very good friend of mine had recently decided to det up a roleplaying site
dedicated to players and gms a like.
He is looking for reviews , articles and general roleplaying stuf to post on
this site , all authors wil be duley credited.

for more infomation please email:

exiled_uk@yahoo.com or Paul@faycn.com

cheers

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Interesting view. We ultimately chose a more "complex" system due to 
familiarity and gaming style rather than learning a new, "simpler" system 
like Fudge or Risus. The GM for our current D&D 3e campaign refers to the 
books constantly due to the changes from AD&D 2e; both Laura (the aspiring 
GM) and I assist to speed up the game. All the players have at least the 
PHB. We're all used to it.


>From: "Michael W. Shaffer" 

>
>I have to disagree that a GM should start with a more complex game system.
>If she's trying to concentrate on GMing, why complicate that with having to
>remember a lot of rules as well?  The best way to be a good GM is to just 
>do
>it and learn from your experience.
>
>I don't buy the complex rules support a beginning GM argument.  GMing isn't
>about rules as much as about running a game, providing a campaign, ruling
>whether a PC can do something.  I don't think you need rules for this.  In
>fact, I believe the fewer rules, the more realistic the campaign setting
>will be.  If you have to use common sense in creating your campaign world
>rather than fitting it into a rules system, I think it will come out 
>better.
>In my opinion a campaign world created without reference to any rules
>system, perhaps as if it were being created as a setting for a novel, will
>probably be better for it.
>
>Pookey


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on 6/22/01 8:12 PM, Joel Arellano at joelarellano@hotmail.com wrote:

> Interesting view. We ultimately chose a more "complex" system due to
> familiarity and gaming style rather than learning a new, "simpler" system
> like Fudge or Risus. The GM for our current D&D 3e campaign refers to the
> books constantly due to the changes from AD&D 2e; both Laura (the aspiring
> GM) and I assist to speed up the game. All the players have at least the
> PHB. We're all used to it.

Going with what you are used to is absolutely a good way to go, no matter
what the system.  My first GMing was with AD&D, but I seemed to gravitate
towards simpler systems as time went by, first basic D&D, then Traveller and
MegaTraveller, Gurps, and Finally Fudge.  MegaTraveller and Gurps are
debatable as being simpler than Basic D&D, but I just loved the simple Task
Resolution system from MegaTraveller.  I still love it.  Gurps was simpler
to me because everything was calculated before the game started.

I liked Fudge because of the one mechanic for task resolution, just like my
old love MegaTraveller, but with descriptions instead of just numbers!

Bottom line, you should go with what you are comfortable with.  If you know
D&D, then you should probably start out with that.

Regards,

Pookey
-- 
Michael W. Shaffer
PGPKey: 0x253E28F3
http://www.geocities.com/pookey_shaffer/pookey.html


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on 6/22/01 7:10 PM, shadoe@kscable.com at shadoe@kscable.com wrote:

> At the risk of starting yet another schism.  (but at least it would be
> about gaming!) I don't think a free form system is a good first game system
> for a starting GM.  In any system the GM has to " (rule) whether a PC can
> do something."  With the rule light games there is a lot of vagueness on
> how to determine PC actions.  The new GM is already having to make stuff
> up, why add to the work load?  I have only ever seen 2 fudge games from two
> different people.  One was a little lost on how to do it and totally
> confused me on howfudge was run!  The other spent a great deal of time
> tinkering with the system "to get it right" it seemed.  From what I've seen
> rules light systems need a experienced GM and one willing to put in a lot
> of work.

Heretic! You shall burn for your evil disagreement with Pookey!

I've seen first time GMs, and have been one, and I was a little lost when I
ran my first game.  I think being a little lost is a part of being a new GM,
not the rules you use.  I consider a rules medium or rules heavy system just
another bad habit you would have to break later, so why even start it?  This
is with the full understanding that my opinion is only valid for GMs who
agree that rules light is the way to go, of course!

> I do agree that GM should be more about the game/campaign than the rules.
> And I definitely would NOT recommend a rule intense system like Rolemaster
> or Champions.     So in the middle are games like GURPS or 3ED&D which have
> draw backs but usually provide something in black and white to fall back on
> if the GM can't figure out how to do something.
> AND especially to the starting GM "Don't run something you haven't played!"

I think that common sense is the best thing to fall back on, that or primary
sources.  If you need to know how something works, get the book the rules
author consulted to write the rule!

On your last point I agree fully.  If possible, always play the game system
first.

Regards,

Pookey
-- 
Michael W. Shaffer
PGPKey: 0x253E28F3
http://www.geocities.com/pookey_shaffer/pookey.html


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GMAST Home Page:  http://www.phoenyx.net/gmast/

Helping aspiring GMs

Tell her write what intrests her as a start.

A favorite series, maybe books or vids can go a long way in taking pressure
off a game master.

What system is she planning to run? Complexity can be rough on a newbie.

After coming up with an outline, she should ask herself, "Will my players
enjoy this?" A simple to overlook rule if a beginner gets wrapped up in her
story.

Hope that helps.


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