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JamesReichstadt
James Reichstadt

Thu

Jun 21
2001

16:37Z

A new topic....

I had this wonderful prose about how the religion discussion has devolved 
from an interesting intellectual excercise to the typical drek seen on most 
message boards.  It's a shame we missed the easy answers like "If someone 
chose to witness in the middle of one of my games they wouldn't be invited 
back" or "If someone brings a lawyer to the game I say we play Vampire 
instead".  It's going nowhere and I'd rather see something go somewhere so 
here goes....

In somewhat the same vein how do/have those of you with kids introduced them 
to RPG's?  For those without kids guess/surmise/whatever.

Obviously there are things that make us uncomfortable.  If someone RP'd a 
rape scene in graphic detail I'd be a bit miffed; if someone else was 
tittilated by the scene I'd be disgusted and if the game continued in the 
same vein I'd leave.  Obvious right, but how do we turn that kind of 
morality on our children - do we invoke violence to we tone down 
descriptions.  How do we keep our kids from turning into hack-n-slash style 
players, do we find that we tone down our games?

Even further think about how you play - would you play the same way if your 
7 year old was watching?  A number of folks have answered before that they 
keep their kids away from RP's until they get to a certain age - I for one 
would love to include my kids in a hobby that I love.

My 7 year old paints miniatures and plays chess and video games with me and 
I even cook with her (former chef hiding in here somewhere).  Imagine the 
shock on Grandma's face when then 5 year old child begins to chop onions 
with exceedingly sharp chef's knife; yet to my way of thinking the sooner 
she learned to use a knife correctly the sooner I'd worry less about her 
getting to them and possibly cutting herself.  We won't go into how she 
learned not to touch a hot stove but suffice to say it involved cooking 
parts of Dad inadvertantly.  I can see "Mom" reacting the same way when I 
tell her that her Granddaughter plays D&D.

So how about it folks - let's drop that old time religion and get on with 
something else.
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AG
a & g

Fri

Jun 22
2001

02:38Z

A new topic....

    (mucho edit)

>  How do we keep our kids from turning into hack-n-slash style
> players, do we find that we tone down our games?
> 
> Even further think about how you play - would you play the same way if your
> 7 year old was watching?  A number of folks have answered before that they
> keep their kids away from RP's until they get to a certain age - I for one
> would love to include my kids in a hobby that I love.

    Personally, I would not play differently if a child were watching. I
think too much sheltering for a child can lead to problem. Of course, so can
too much exposure. RPGing offers a child a chance to step into a role and
see perspectives from another angle.
    I think a child will not be prone to hack n slash style games if no one
else in the game is prone to.


> My 7 year old paints miniatures and plays chess and video games with me and
> I even cook with her (former chef hiding in here somewhere).  Imagine the
> shock on Grandma's face when then 5 year old child begins to chop onions
> with exceedingly sharp chef's knife; yet to my way of thinking the sooner
> she learned to use a knife correctly the sooner I'd worry less about her
> getting to them and possibly cutting herself.

    Exactly. I think it is better to show something to a child in the best
manner we know how early on, as opposed to waiting and them getting exposed
to it in an unhealthy manner. IE, 'tis better you teach your child to handle
sharp knives in the kitchen as opposed to her holding her first sharp
instrument as she picks it up in an alley, et al.


> So how about it folks - let's drop that old time religion and get on with
> something else.

    Please yes. :)

    I think this conversation can easily turn into the "RPG as tool" genre.
Basically, an RPG is nothing in itself, but takes on virtues or vices when
someone decides to play it in a certain fashion. I would choose to show
someone how it can be used well, before they get bad information about it
from another source.
    Congrats on your attitudes about raising your child (and best luck to
Grandma's coping ability). j/k

    Many Thanks,

    Zealot.

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BrianKoppi
Brian Koppi

Fri

Jun 22
2001

02:58Z

A new topic....

At 8:38 PM -0600 6/21/01, a & g wrote:
>     (mucho edit)
>
>>   How do we keep our kids from turning into hack-n-slash style
>  > players, do we find that we tone down our games?

I would suggest insulating them from the rules. Most of us are 
exposed first to dice games and such wherein the "numbers" in the 
game are the key to winning. By handling all the numbers behind the 
GM screen it frees the young gamers to exercise their natural role 
playing abilities. Maybe even introduce rewards system based solely 
on the acting-out of the primary personality traits of their 
character.

>  > Even further think about how you play - would you play the same way if your
>>  7 year old was watching?  A number of folks have answered before that they
>>  keep their kids away from RP's until they get to a certain age - I for one
>  > would love to include my kids in a hobby that I love.

I think I would "play" the same way, but obviously censor the content 
of the story. I suppose its much the same as choosing what movies a 
child is allowed to see. There's nothing wrong with the medium of 
entertainment, but where "The Lion King" is suitable for a 7 year old 
"Se7en" is likely not.

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LlwAtts
LLWatts

Fri

Jun 22
2001

14:44Z

A new topic....

> Even further think about how you play - would you play the same way if your 
>  7 year old was watching?  A number of folks have answered before that they 
>  keep their kids away from RP's until they get to a certain age - I for one 
>  would love to include my kids in a hobby that I love.

No kids, but an about-to-turn 9 nephew, is that close enough?

He's got the imagination for RPGs, no question. I haven't tried getting him 
involved because he's still a bit bouncy -- if he gets excited about 
something, he has trouble sitting still and his voice volume goes up. (No, 
it's not Attention Deficit Disorder.) I don't see any family problems with 
teaching him to game, his parents only stopped gaming because of work (and 
child bedtime) schedules.

The last face-to-face group I was in played PG-13 bordering on R, so no way I 
would bring him into that even if I was still speaking to that group.  If I 
were going to teach my nephew RPGing, I'd arrange a group specifically for 
that purpose. I suspect he'd be happiest with rolling his own dice, but the 
point about keeping the rules off to one side (made in an earlier post) is 
good -- probably an approach of "OK Sean, what do you want to do?" {listening 
to description, figuring appropriate die roll} "All right, do you want to 
roll to see if you succeeded?"

Leah
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WattErs10
watters.10

Fri

Jun 22
2001

19:41Z

A new topic....

On 22 Jun 2001, at 8:44, LLWatts@aol.com wrote:

> The last face-to-face group I was in played PG-13 bordering on R, so no way I
> would bring him into that even if I was still speaking to that group.  If I were
> going to teach my nephew RPGing, I'd arrange a group specifically for that
> purpose. I suspect he'd be happiest with rolling his own dice, but the point
> about keeping the rules off to one side (made in an earlier post) is good --
> probably an approach of "OK Sean, what do you want to do?" {listening to
> description, figuring appropriate die roll} "All right, do you want to roll to
> see if you succeeded?"

Everyone in my regular troupe is 25+, and some of the side banter and off-scene 
comments can get pretty R, let alone what happens on-scene.  When someone 
brings children we suddenly have to turn on the internal censor.  Most parents 
do this automatically, (and non-parents with close nieces and nephews).

Children APE what they hear.  Even something something mildly amusing like 
_Shadow Warrior_'s comments (Who wants some Wang?) can be inappropriate if the 
audience is wrong, and 1st or second grade is the wrong place for those 
comments - especially in those places where a good old-fashioned game of kiss 
tag is considered sexual harrasment.

However, if we are planning the game with the idea of including children, I 
typically do something like Star Trek, Swars or something currently in vogue, 
like DBZ or use BESM to do Gundam.  A very gentle breaking into the concepts of 
roleplay and the use of the randomizers.  

I have done this with a group of 3rd graders a while back, we used ADND1 and 
streamlined combat (no weapon vs. armor modifiers, no weapon speeds, etc).  We 
really toned down combat, left plenty of puzzles and NPC interaction.  The big 
baddie was a small Red, and the characters *almost* defeated it, but it won the 
battle, sent their little butts home and told them to try again when they were 
more experienced, and ate all their rations (and a couple of horses for good 
measure).  For the most part, keeping it rules-light wasn't a problem, children 
are used to playing "make believe" without needing boundaries to keep them on 
path.

Of course they didn't have to face my wolves...


--
-Coyt Watters
"The internet, billions of electrons with nothing better to do."
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TheronBretz
Theron Bretz

Sat

Jun 23
2001

01:20Z

A new topic....

> No kids, but an about-to-turn 9 nephew, is that close enough?
>
> He's got the imagination for RPGs, no question. I haven't tried getting
him
> involved because he's still a bit bouncy -- if he gets excited about
> something, he has trouble sitting still and his voice volume goes up. (No,
> it's not Attention Deficit Disorder.) I don't see any family problems with
> teaching him to game, his parents only stopped gaming because of work (and
> child bedtime) schedules.

Leah,

I would suggest tracking down a copy of the Pokemon Adventure Game (or
something like that).  It's an honest-to-WoTC RPG aimed at kids (the
players) and the GM (their parent or other adult).  It's easy to learn and
the adventures come pre-packaged in the box (which runs about 9.95, IIRC).
Sure, it's Pokemon, but the advantage of that is most kids know the genre
and the characters already.

Theron
Houston


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