I think that a diceless game can still have some randomness and need not be
solely determined by the DM. For instance, say I'm the DM and I've created a
temple and placed guardians about it. I don't know if the players are going
to charge the front door, send in an invisible scout, disguise themselves
and try to bluff their way in, or try any number of other strategies.
Even if they charge straight in, I don't know how the battle will play out.
The cleric might cast blindness and then all the players back away and kill
the guardian with arrows. Some players may decide to drink their potions of
strength or haste. If their are two or more guardians, how will the players
match up? Will the strong fighter take the big guardian while the rest rat
pack the weaker one? Or will all the PC's concentrate on a spellcasting
guardian? Maybe the strong fighter takes on a bunch of weaker guardians
using his Whirlwind attack, leaving the rest to pick away at the main
guardian.
And there are Trip attacks, Grappling, flanking strategies, and magical
items to consider. Chess is a game without randomness, yet because of all
the different actions and strategies, the game turns out different each
time. And D&D offers many more options and situations than chess.
----Original Message Follows----
From:
Reply-To: gamers@phoenyx.net
To: gamers@phoenyx.net
Subject: Re: GM: How does your site work?
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:42:15 CST
>> Because an unfair game isn't fun, at least to me. You tend to end up
>> in one of two types of games when the GM lets his bias run wild...
>
>Why do you assume that the "unfair" GM is going to let his bias "run
>wild"?
Because the unfair GM is human (presumably). He's going to have biases.
Biases towards what makes a good story, biases about certain types of
characters, etc. These biases can and do come through in a game that uses
dice, but not to the degree that they can in a diceless game. Without any
constraints at all, every GM, no matter how good, is going to take things
too
far.
>> Now, most GMs who aren't concerned with impartiality will fall between
>> these two extremes, but individual campaigns/adventures/events will
>> likely lend themselves in one direction or the other.
>
>If "most GMs" who aren't "fair" don't have the extreme problems you
>described, why are "unfair" GM's such a problem? You seem to be stating
>one premise ("Unfair" GM's let their biases run wild and ruin the game
>with one of two extremes) and coming up with a different conclusion (Most
>GM's don't have a problem here).
Not at all. Let me try to explain further...most GMs _do_ fall somewhere in
between, but the problem still exists. In each situation, they're going to
lean in one direction or another. In diceless games, a character can't be
lucky unless the GM decides he's lucky, frex. Everyone has biases...dice
mitigate some of the effects of those biases.
>> The story should be a collective effort, not something the GM knows
>> the ending to.
>
>Does "not fair" have to mean "GM knows the ending"?
Fair enough question. No, not really. The GM doesn't necessarily know the
ending of the adventure before it starts, but the ending is up to his whims.
What plans will work, what plans won't, what actions result in success,
which
actions don't. The players can try to come up with ideas, but unless the GM
decides that those ideas work, they don't. Unless, of course, players get
to
decide what actions succeed and which don't, in which case, the game has
crossed the threshold of collective storytelling, not rping. Don't get me
wrong...collective storytelling is cool, but it's not a role playing game
(similar, with elements of each in the other, but not the same).
>> If he already knows whats going to happen, what's the use of having
>> players?
>
>Because the GM doesn't know what the players are going to do?
True, true. That, at least, provides some level of variety. But the GM is
still the sole determinate of whether an action succeeds or fails. That
takes a lot of excitement out of a game, for me. It means that fights that
are supposed to go well go well and those that aren't, don't. The story
loses it's "life"...that random element that exists in reality...and becomes
more of a novel.
Lucifer >:}
--
"The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n" --Milton, Paradise Lost, Bk. 1
Homepage: http://members.aol.com/noctifer/index.html
Lucifer's Feyworld Webpage:
http://members.aol.com/noctifer/private/FeyFront.htm
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