
A little late for Friday, but... Is it my imagination, or is there something in the water at game companies lately? Last year we had D&D 3.5. There's a new Gamma World, a new Tekumel game imminent, and a new version of Paranoia on the way. Steve Jackson Games announced GURPS 4th this week; GOO likewise announced Big Eyes, Small Mouth 3rd. The Conan license lives again, while the World of Darkness is getting closed out and reincarnated. Even the likes of FUDGE and The Game Formerly Known As Runequest seem to be undergoing renewal of late... It's like there's some sort of "take the new ideas and revamp them" bug going around. In some cases it's inevitable, especially where systems have gotten old and creaky and need the work, but at the rate things are going, I fully expect new versions of Star Frontiers, Jorune, and the Fantastic Phantasmagorical Monty Haul Dungeon to be announced by year's end. (OK, maybe not Star Frontiers...) Have people just run out of new ideas? Or do we have people who just have fond memories of what was around when they started, and simply want to bring them into the 21st Century? I've no clue...in all honesty, I've been getting so far back into D&D I may even track down my old haunts and revive my old Gallery. Which would make me no better or worse, I suppose. Sigh. Oh well. At least they aren't remaking Magnum P.I. into a movie...oh, wait...nevermind... ---Darth Stomper-- ------Dark Chairman of S.I.T.H.------ Alternate Historian, Philosopher, Crackpot "Now with 25% less .sig file"---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
You forgot HARP, by ICE, which sorta looks like it might be Rolemaster Lite or something similar. They still have tons of charts, though... it takes 14 charts to detail the weapon damage possibilities. --Ananda > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
T. M. Neeck wrote: > Have people just run out of new ideas? New ideas are rushed out using d20 rules to make a buck. Steve -- http://www.stevebarr.com "I must have been in the circus" -- My Wife is a Gangster 2 All 100% my own opinions. ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, T. M. Neeck wrote: TMN>Have people just run out of new ideas? Or do we have people who just TMN>have fond memories of what was around when they started, and simply TMN>want to bring them into the 21st Century? I've no clue...in all TMN>honesty, I've been getting so far back into D&D I may even track down TMN>my old haunts and revive my old Gallery. Which would make me no TMN>better or worse, I suppose. Don't laugh. In the course of trying to figure out an alternative to mailing lists (which get thrown out with the spam all too often these days), I considered reviving the Phoenyx' SOUP and QWK packet capabilities... -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
> TMN>Have people just run out of new ideas? Or do we have people who > TMN>just have fond memories of what was around when they started, and > TMN>simply want to bring them into the 21st Century? I've no clue...in > TMN>all honesty, I've been getting so far back into D&D I may even > TMN>track down my old haunts and revive my old Gallery. Which would > TMN>make me no better or worse, I suppose. > > Don't laugh. In the course of trying to figure out an alternative to > mailing lists (which get thrown out with the spam all too often these > days), I considered reviving the Phoenyx' SOUP and QWK packet > capabilities... And just yesterday I read a serious proposal from an acquaintance on creating an RSS <-> NNTP conversion to deal with multiple RSS feeds. -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote:
> And just yesterday I read a serious proposal from an acquaintance on
> creating an RSS <-> NNTP conversion to deal with multiple RSS feeds.
Heh... I found it ironic that clients created specifically to read
multiple RSS feeds are called "newsreaders". I could handle an RSS->NNTP
converter... then I could drop bloglines (which I always forget to read)
and get my RSS feeds in Pine.
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner
[ General RP Discussion -- http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/ ]
And old UNIX programmers never die, they just lose their grep.
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On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: MF>And just yesterday I read a serious proposal from an acquaintance on MF>creating an RSS <-> NNTP conversion to deal with multiple RSS feeds. Hmm. All I'd have to do is pipe the RSS into the Phoenyx software and it'd come out in any format you wanted... -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: > > MF>And just yesterday I read a serious proposal from an acquaintance on > MF>creating an RSS <-> NNTP conversion to deal with multiple RSS feeds. > > Hmm. All I'd have to do is pipe the RSS into the Phoenyx software and > it'd come out in any format you wanted... Great idea, but I'm not holding my breath. . . . -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: MF>Great idea, but I'm not holding my breath. . . . Wouldn't be hard, but first you'd have to have a good reason to bother. Well, more specifically, *I'd* have to have one. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: > > MF>Great idea, but I'm not holding my breath. . . . > > Wouldn't be hard, but first you'd have to have a good reason to bother. > Well, more specifically, *I'd* have to have one. Which is why I'm not waiting for it. -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: MF>Which is why I'm not waiting for it. I've been playing around with RSS lately (via the Firefox plugin), but I haven't seen any content I'd be inclined to import into the Phoenyx. I started to play with the Babble perl critter, but it requires Perl 5.8.0 and we've only got 5.6.1 installed in production. I'm figuring outbound RSS will be much more useful, but I could be wrong. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: > > MF>Which is why I'm not waiting for it. > > I've been playing around with RSS lately (via the Firefox plugin), but I > haven't seen any content I'd be inclined to import into the Phoenyx. I > started to play with the Babble perl critter, but it requires Perl 5.8.0 > and we've only got 5.6.1 installed in production. There may be a few things, I think 10x10 Room and it's ilk might be relevant. And I haven't actually gone *looking* for anything. > I'm figuring outbound RSS will be much more useful, but I could be > wrong. I agree that an outbound feed would be very useful. -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Michael Feldhusen wrote: MF>There may be a few things, I think 10x10 Room and it's ilk might be MF>relevant. And I haven't actually gone *looking* for anything. Me neither, other than for stuff to test in Firefox. I have mostly useless stuff (Irregular Webcomic's RSS feed is completely pointless, for example). Cabbages and Kings is sometimes interesting, but I dunno what/where 10x10 Room is. Most stuff seems to roll by faster than I read it (even checking daily), and with no way to detect that it seems kind of b0rken for certain applications... one wouldn't want to read, say, the Fudge List that way. Or much of anything with "bursty" traffic. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
Hi Mickael Here If you would be so kind can you please unsubcribe me to the non specific or Direct CHCH Gamers Mail as I don't have time to keep up to date with every message so the RE:GM's I read make have little meaning thought I like still like the straight up Notice and Advertisement notices. Cheers Man! M. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > MF>There may be a few things, I think 10x10 Room and it's ilk might be > MF>relevant. And I haven't actually gone *looking* for anything. > > Me neither, other than for stuff to test in Firefox. I have mostly > useless stuff (Irregular Webcomic's RSS feed is completely pointless, for > example). Cabbages and Kings is sometimes interesting, but I dunno > what/where 10x10 Room is. > > Most stuff seems to roll by faster than I read it (even checking daily), > and with no way to detect that it seems kind of b0rken for certain > applications... one wouldn't want to read, say, the Fudge List that way. > Or much of anything with "bursty" traffic. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Michael Marshall wrote: MM>or Direct CHCH Gamers Mail The what? -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
Hi Mickael Here If you would be so kind can you please unsubcribe me to the non specific or Non_Direct CHCH Gamers Mail I still like the straight up Notice and Advertisement notices. Eg Re: Clubs Day Or Re: Saga BBQ Cheers Man! M. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > MF>There may be a few things, I think 10x10 Room and it's ilk might be > MF>relevant. And I haven't actually gone *looking* for anything. > > Me neither, other than for stuff to test in Firefox. I have mostly > useless stuff (Irregular Webcomic's RSS feed is completely pointless, for > example). Cabbages and Kings is sometimes interesting, but I dunno > what/where 10x10 Room is. > > Most stuff seems to roll by faster than I read it (even checking daily), > and with no way to detect that it seems kind of b0rken for certain > applications... one wouldn't want to read, say, the Fudge List that way. > Or much of anything with "bursty" traffic. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:13:50 CST, Carl D Cravenswrote: >On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: > >> I was at a local small-scale gaming convention last weekend, and played in a >> Hackmaster game. There was a guy who's part of the fan booster organization >> for Hackmaster there, who spoke of it in hushed, religiously worshipful >> terms. "It's AD&D 2nd edition with all the flaws fixed," he says. It's a >> game that was made to look like a parody, but the parody is all veneer. > >Well, if I fixed all the flaws in AD&D2, it certainly wouldn't have come >out looking like Hackmaster. :) > I have Hackmaster but I'd never play it. Now I'm entering RPG Mid-life crisis I might run Original D&D again for some mindless fun, but not AD&D 2 or Hackmaster. ed -- edhogg@equus.demon.co.uk | Dragons Rescued | _//// http://www.equus.demon.co.uk/ | Maidens Slain | o_/o /// For devilbunnies, Diplomacy, RPGs, | Quests P.O.A. | __\ ///__ Science-Fiction and other stuff | | <*> ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, T. M. Neeck wrote:
> Is it my imagination, or is there something in the water at game
> companies lately? Last year we had D&D 3.5. There's a new Gamma World,
> a new Tekumel game imminent, and a new version of Paranoia on the way.
> Steve Jackson Games announced GURPS 4th this week; GOO likewise
> announced Big Eyes, Small Mouth 3rd. The Conan license lives again,
> while the World of Darkness is getting closed out and reincarnated.
> Even the likes of FUDGE and The Game Formerly Known As Runequest seem to
> be undergoing renewal of late...
Well, there's _always_ a new edition of Gamma World, with radically
different rules from the last edition. I think it just continues to
mutate. There was a new version of GW just a few years ago... right
before the D&D3 release. And a version after D&D3 in Polyhedron magazine.
:) Me, I'm into retro GW... second edition, all the way, baby.
BESM 2nd edition is still going strong and isn't very old.
D&D is just a marketing thing... sales are down, modify all the core books
and see how many customers you can pump for another $200 for books they
already own.
Paranoia, Conan, Runequest, Tekumel and the constant reworking of Gamma
World... yeah, I think there is a bit of nostalgia going on in the
industry.
> It's like there's some sort of "take the new ideas and revamp them" bug
> going around.
You mean "take the old ideas"? I don't think it's so much "revamp them"
as it is "re-live them". The thirty-somethings are pining for the days of
their youth... 80's music and old-school roleplaying settings.
> going, I fully expect new versions of Star Frontiers, Jorune, and the
I'm ready for Star Frontiers... I loved the game, even though I rarely got
to run it. (Too much competition from Gamma World.)
> Have people just run out of new ideas? Or do we have people who just
> have fond memories of what was around when they started, and simply want
> to bring them into the 21st Century?
I think that's it. I even took D&D3 for a spin, just for old-time's sake.
It helped me realize just how much my tastes have changed.
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner
[ Phoenyx PBeM Roleplaying -- http://www.phoenyx.net/ ]
ERROR: Unable to comprehend lame tagline.
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On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 04:20:36PM -0600, Carl D Cravens wrote:
> You mean "take the old ideas"? I don't think it's so much "revamp them"
> as it is "re-live them". The thirty-somethings are pining for the days of
> their youth... 80's music and old-school roleplaying settings.
That's what Hackmaster is all about.
I was at a local small-scale gaming convention last weekend, and played in a
Hackmaster game. There was a guy who's part of the fan booster organization
for Hackmaster there, who spoke of it in hushed, religiously worshipful
terms. "It's AD&D 2nd edition with all the flaws fixed," he says. It's a
game that was made to look like a parody, but the parody is all veneer.
Well, I dunno. Sure, many of the confusing things are spelled out, in
manners similar to how I houseruled it back during my AD&D/1e days.
However, that is one massive, complicated system. The GM's screen has
mutiple folding pages and panels. There's tables and complicated rues for
everything. Yes, it has that AD&D/1e "feel", but I have to admit I was
convinced it wasn't the game for me.....
D&D/3e on the other hand can be very good. Like many things, it's more up
to who's running it and who's playing it as to whether the game is good.
But D&D/3e enables one to play a game of the sort I would enjoy, anyway.
-Rob
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On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote:
> I was at a local small-scale gaming convention last weekend, and played in a
> Hackmaster game. There was a guy who's part of the fan booster organization
> for Hackmaster there, who spoke of it in hushed, religiously worshipful
> terms. "It's AD&D 2nd edition with all the flaws fixed," he says. It's a
> game that was made to look like a parody, but the parody is all veneer.
Well, if I fixed all the flaws in AD&D2, it certainly wouldn't have come
out looking like Hackmaster. :)
> D&D/3e on the other hand can be very good. Like many things, it's more up
> to who's running it and who's playing it as to whether the game is good.
> But D&D/3e enables one to play a game of the sort I would enjoy, anyway.
I think it encourages play of the type that actively turns me off. The
rules are very complex (not confusing, just made up of very, very many
parts) and only people who enjoy working through all the rules are really
attracted to it. No D&D supplement is complete without a new monster, a
new spell, a new prestige class, a new feat, a new magic item, or an
alternate magic system... pick three for any given supplement, even if
it's just an _adventure_. (Yes, I'm using the Three-Fingered Left-Handed
Chaotic Silly Paladin prestige class from the "Smoking Crack on the
Borderlands" adventure.)
D&D3 still focuses play around combat and combat abilities. You can
de-emphasize that, but that's what the _rules_ are emphasizing. And if
you've got a whole group of people who don't care about the rules, you can
probably find a more suitable game than D&D3.
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner
[ Trim Your Quotes! ]
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I personally play in all sorts of gaming styles, though Ilike some
more than others. I favor cinematic systems, don;t neccesarily always
care about balance within a party as long as everybody has something
worthwhile to do, and love the character contruction process. I dislike
it when the character i spent an hour rolling up is disemboweled by the
first orc he meets.
In my GMing style, player-character death is a very are thing and
only happens unless either it is dramatically appropriate for the
cracter to die (A player can win brownie points with my by making a
heroic sacrifice that means something) or is the result of such galling.
mind-numbing stupidity that no amount of GM iffdling should save someone
who does something that stupid ("It's only boiling lava! Can't be THAT
hot!")
The popularity of d20 poses problems for a GM like myself sometimes.
I haven;t run d20 in a while, but when I've played oin d20 and D&D games
recently my GMs have taken a very mechanical approach, setting 9for
example) traps that are far too powerful for first-levle characters to
survive and impossible for first-level characters to avoid. I dislike it
when a Gm decides he is going to show off his prowess at puzzle-making
rather than creating a story or presenting an interesting experience.
Nothing annoys me more than a dungeon crawl, where there is nothing to
do but dodge traps and slay monsters and the monsters exist to be slain.
I dislike that the designers of d20 modern felt the need to fill the
game with D&D monsters so the (human) players have something they can
kill with a spotless conscience. Don't orcs have families?
I must prefer the approach of a game like "Victoriana", which is a
fantasy take on the real-life dystopia that was the Victorian Age. Yes,
there are orcs in Victoriana, mainly in Africa -- but they are fighting
colonialism, not searching for children to eat. There is no clearly
defined good and evil in Victoriana -- you don't get it so easy as "the
good guys defend the status quo", because the status quo is morally
indefensible. Even though all the alternatives look worse....
Michael Hopcroft
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The more I play 3E -- and 3.5E -- the more I appreciate other systems. Carl D Cravens wrote: >I think it encourages play of the type that actively turns me off. > Yep, exactly. The complexity of the system virtually requires rules lawyering and a list of "rules we use/rules we don't use". The other game system that has as wide a variety of rules has been around long enough that there are self-contradictory rules found throughout the system. Yet somehow, there is a lot less rules lawyering in Palladium-playing groups I've seen. I've had GMs just explain which set of rules they're using for which situation, and people generally say "okay" and adjust accordingly. >The rules are very complex (not confusing, just made up of very, very many parts) > I play every other week. One of the guys I game with has been playing about 1.5 times a week, every week since 3rd ed. came out. A recent article on the Wizards site prompted him to say "I didn't know that about." I find that a scary thought. >No D&D supplement is complete without... > Yep. And with the OGL, the quality of same is highly variable, and they are often not well balanced. Prestige classes in particular are wildly unbalanced, both against each other and against the classes they are designed to supplement. >D&D3 still focuses play around combat and combat abilities. You can >de-emphasize that, but that's what the _rules_ are emphasizing. > The fact that you *must* have miniatures and a battlemat to play through a combat is a good example of this. --Ananda ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Ananda Stevens wrote: > I play every other week. One of the guys I game with has been playing > about 1.5 times a week, every week since 3rd ed. came out. A recent > article on the Wizards site prompted him to say "I didn't know that > about." I find that a scary thought. When I first played D&D3, I used the character builder software that came on the CDROM with the Player's Handbook. I then spent at least a couple of hours with my finished character in hand trying to sort out all the factors that governed things like how many spells he knew. There were a couple items that I had difficulty finding and spent much of my time on those. If I had a finished character sheet and it took me two hours to find all the rules for modifiers to his stats, what is the likelyhood that a new player is going to find all those modifiers if he's creating a character by hand? I ran into a similar problem in Champions... even after years of playing, many players rarely got the math right. They'd give me characters, I'd plug them into my Lotus spreadsheet, and the numbers wouldn't match. What's the point in using a detailed point system if the complexity of the math often results in mistakes? This was a problem even with published characters... the math was just too complex and cumbersome. I had a very involved Lotus spreadsheet, and even then character construction was a pain. I can't imagine doing some of my more complex characters with a calculator. For a lot of people, that complexity is a lot of the fun. I did really enjoy building characters back when I played Champions. A couple years ago (well, about the time D&D3 came out, I think) I got nostalgic for Champions and pulled it and my spreadsheets (converting to Excel) back out, thinking maybe I'd run something... but I got frustrated with it really, really fast. It was just too restrictive compared to the freeform character creation I'm used to in Fudge, and the annoying little bugs in the system still bothered me. -- Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner [ Fudge Factor Webzine -- http://www.fudgefactor.org/ ] A man about to speak the truth should keep one foot in the stirrup. ---------------------------------------------------------------- GAMERS Home Page: http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/