One interesting thing that's come out of the Stabcon discussion (besides the liquor-law stuff) is the reasons people go to cons. I see that for instance Roger goes for gaming, where when we went our one and only time to Gencon we signed up for a bunch of games, had a rather mixed bag experience-wise, and if we went again would be going for other reasons. Carl wants to go to panels, where I... I'm not sure why I'd go, other than to meet folks (I joked that as far as I was concerned we could go to Indy, not bother to register for the con, and spend our entire time meeting Phoenyx folks in restaurants *outside* the convention). I had a lot of fun at the dealer's room in '94, but things have changed... nowadays, there's no real chance of running across surprising new games that haven't made it to one's local store (curse you, Internet!), for one thing. I think for me, Renaissance festivals have replaced the dealer's-room function. You got your fantasy art, you got your dice bags, you got your swords, you got your chainmail bikinis... pretty much all the fun ancillary stuff that's the "anything gamers might like." Everything but the games, in other words. And yeah, I think I just said I like to go to conventions to (mostly window-)shop... -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, Karen J. Cravens wrote:
> Carl wants to go to panels
Workshops more than panels, though there are a few panels I might
want. Nowdays, it's as much wanting to meet people I've known online
for years as anything else.
There _are_ a few indie games I want to try out with the author's
running them.
> I had a lot of fun at the dealer's room in '94, but things have
> changed... nowadays, there's no real chance of running across
> surprising new games that haven't made it to one's local store
> (curse you, Internet!), for one thing.
There's the ability to browse through things that you never see on the
shelf. But yeah... where the dealer's room was a big part of my
reason for going to GenCon over ten years ago, it's not nearly as a
big a reason now.
> And yeah, I think I just said I like to go to conventions to (mostly
> window-)shop...
I think I go for the atmosphere as much as anything and to talk to
people as much as anything.
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner
[ Trim Your Quotes! ]
Shell to DOS....come in DOS...Do you copy?
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>Workshops more than panels, though there are a few panels I might CDC>want. Nowdays, it's as much wanting to meet people I've known online CDC>for years as anything else. Workshop, panel, whatever. CDC>There _are_ a few indie games I want to try out with the author's CDC>running them. There are a few I want to watch from a safe distance, maybe. There are other authors I want to meet, pat gently, and say "There, there. There *are* good gamemasters out there. I promise. Keep looking, it's bound to get better." CDC>There's the ability to browse through things that you never see on the CDC>shelf. But yeah... where the dealer's room was a big part of my CDC>reason for going to GenCon over ten years ago, it's not nearly as a CDC>big a reason now. Eh, anymore I value word-of-mouth more than browsing through. CDC>I think I go for the atmosphere as much as anything and to talk to CDC>people as much as anything. Part of the atmosphere is touristing, though, and that's just weird in a city I lived for ten years. Which would still be okay, except I went there several times more recently with The Airline. Which, um, okay, that would be eight years ago or so. That's recent, right? -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 03:10:46PM -0500, Karen J. Cravens wrote: >One interesting thing that's come out of the Stabcon discussion (besides >the liquor-law stuff) is the reasons people go to cons. I see that for >instance Roger goes for gaming, I go to the cons I currently go to for gaming. (That's a horrible sentence. Sorry. I've just driven back, about five hours altogether including breaks...) Things that happen at cons that potentially interest me: Gaming Panels/discussions (I'll just call them "panels") Dealers Stabcon is basically about gaming - it began as a Diplomacy convention, and there's probably still more boardgaming than roleplaying going on. There are no formally-organised games - people just turn up and run whatever they fancy. There are certainly no panels (though there's a lot of informal chat) - and, as Tim points out, the dealers' presence is minimal and very informal. (Given how twitchy people get about theft even at Eastercons (1,000 people or so), I really can't see "five tables pushed together and piled high with games, with someone watching them most of the time and a sheet pulled over them at night" working at a larger convention!) The BRS cons are pretty similar, though the dealers are a bit more formal - they do actually have a room which gets locked when they're not open for business. There are also panels, because most of the BRS people are active in SF fandom as well and they borrow ideas that they like. GenConUK is much more organised - if you didn't sign up in advance, you probably won't get into a game at all, in my experience. (I'm not interested in the RPGA-type Living Foo games, which significantly reduces the number of games available to me.) The last few I went to, there were no panels at all, and a huge dealers' room. But because most of the game producers are North American, there wasn't anything there which hadn't already got to game-shops in the UK. The people who run GenConUK are ex-RPGA and mostly still think in terms of tournament gaming as the One True Way. We used also to have GamesFair, which was much less formal - there were a few tournaments for which you could sign up in advance, but mostly it was bring-and-run. Few or no panels, fairly extensive dealers. There's Dragonmeet, too, which is a one-day con in London. Most of the gaming is demos, there's a lot of dealers' presence and fairly solid panel programming (though usually only single-stream). I generally don't get any actual gaming done, there. >where when we went our one and only time >to Gencon we signed up for a bunch of games, had a rather mixed bag >experience-wise, and if we went again would be going for other reasons. The first time I went to GenCon I signed up for lots of games. The second time I left myself with lots of free time for dealers and chatting. I did eventually learn to spot games I'd enjoy, though possibly I just got lucky. >Carl wants to go to panels, where I... I'm not sure why I'd go, other than >to meet folks (I joked that as far as I was concerned we could go to Indy, >not bother to register for the con, and spend our entire time meeting >Phoenyx folks in restaurants *outside* the convention). What does GenCon cost these days? Convention registration at Stabcon was about 10-15% of my total cost (fuel and hotel making up the rest). When the balance falls that way, you might as well go to the convention too. :-) >I had a lot of >fun at the dealer's room in '94, but things have changed... nowadays, >there's no real chance of running across surprising new games that haven't >made it to one's local store (curse you, Internet!), for one thing. Don't new games get released at GenCon any more? Or games from companies too small to have a distribution deal to the FLGS, but which can just about scrape together the cost of a booth? One of the things I liked a lot about GenCon (and when I say GenCon without qualification, I mean the American ones not the British ones - they are, or at least were, _very_ different beasts) was that you could get the chance to talk with game designers - not just at panels but informally, if the company was small enough that they were manning their own stall in the dealers' room, and sometimes they'd even run their own games (which is how I know how Mike Pondsmith runs games, and for a GM like him the Cyberpunk rules make _perfect sense_). That's how I got to know Dave and Irene and Barry of Leading Edge Games, for example. This sort of thing happens much less at British cons, basically because we don't have that many designers over here. Phil Masters is great but I'm gaming with him every week already so I don't need to buttonhole him at a con; Marcus Rowland is also good people, but he's on Pyramid and uk.games.roleplay; James Wallis is out of the hobby these days. Who else is actively writing stuff? Tim, any thoughts? >I think for me, Renaissance festivals have replaced the dealer's-room >function. You got your fantasy art, you got your dice bags, you got your >swords, you got your chainmail bikinis... pretty much all the fun >ancillary stuff that's the "anything gamers might like." Everything but >the games, in other words. But we don't have those over here. On Sun, Jul 02, 2006 at 04:22:41PM -0500, Tim Hall wrote: >I find the gaming is better at the smaller cons, and I think the much >more limited pool of players is a feature rather than a bug. For one >thing games run by well-known GMs like Phil Masters don't fill up within >a nanosecond. I'm inclined to agree. I've had good gaming experiences at GenCon, but I've also had some pretty bad ones there (nothing like Carl and Karen's, but still not fun). Stabcon works because it stays small and friendly. >It's also small enough for the regular attendees to know each other (Hi >Roger!) I think I've worked out why it is I didn't spot you last time - your speaking style is very different from your writing style. (It's quite possible mine is too; I don't notice. This time the heat was giving me speech buffer underflows every few sentences, which can't have helped.) -- Roger, gaming grognard Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote: > What does GenCon cost these days? Convention registration at Stabcon was > about 10-15% of my total cost (fuel and hotel making up the rest). When > the balance falls that way, you might as well go to the convention too. Pre-reg, all four days is $65. A single-day is $35. ($75 and $45 after June 23rd.) To go to GenCon would cost me $303 per person in airfare. Then the hotel is probably going to run about $150 a night for three nights, if we get one close enough we don't need a rental car. Or we go further away and get a rental car and it costs somewhere around the same. So we're looking at about $1000, give or take a hundred, if we were going to GenCon, not counting food or con purchases. So the con would be about 10-15% of the full price... but that's a pretty big full price. About 544 British pounds, for reference. I'm doing the math and find myself wondering why I wanted to go to GenCon at all... that's a freakin' lot of money for me. But GenCon is almost like a pilgrimage one makes because it is expected of the disciples. I dunno... I expect GenCon to have a certain amount of magic. And despite not liking half of the games we played in, it _did_ have a lot of magic for me the one time I went. Some of that magic was in seeing all the stuff in the dealer's room that was new to me. > Don't new games get released at GenCon any more? Or games from > companies too small to have a distribution deal to the FLGS, but > which can just about scrape together the cost of a booth? They do... but because of the Internet, they aren't surprising. And I know that I can order anything over the net after it's released. Not much point in spending $1000 to go to a convention to pay full-price, when I can order it from Amazon for 30% off. > get the chance to talk with game designers - not just at panels but > informally As mentioned, I want to go to GenCon for the atmosphere and to meet people. Last time I started to plan a trip, I intended to not join in a single organized game... if I gamed, it was going to be because I'd found neat people and we wanted to game together. -- Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner [ Wichita RP Community Resource -- http://www.wichitagamers.com/ ] I *wish* I could remember where I parked my hard disk.
On Sun, Jul 02, 2006 at 09:35:51PM -0500, Carl D Cravens wrote: >So we're looking at about $1000, give or take a hundred, if we were >going to GenCon, not counting food or con purchases. So the con would >be about 10-15% of the full price... but that's a pretty big full >price. About 544 British pounds, for reference. Fair enough. Stabcon was about 1/5 of that, and isn't a "local" convention for me; the BRS cons are cheaper (because I don't have to drive as far). I haven't been to conventions in Europe, but I'm giving serious thought to going to Linkjo"ping next year... >I'm doing the math and find myself wondering why I wanted to go to >GenCon at all... that's a freakin' lot of money for me. But GenCon is >almost like a pilgrimage one makes because it is expected of the >disciples. Certainly I wanted to go to GenCon before I knew anything about what happend there. >> Don't new games get released at GenCon any more? Or games from >> companies too small to have a distribution deal to the FLGS, but >> which can just about scrape together the cost of a booth? >They do... but because of the Internet, they aren't surprising. Hmm. Personally I find it much easier to look over a hundred booths in the dealers' room than to skim through a hundred web sites. And I can ask the questions that won't be answered on the web sites. >And I >know that I can order anything over the net after it's released. Not >much point in spending $1000 to go to a convention to pay full-price, >when I can order it from Amazon for 30% off. As long as you know you want it. Reviews and word-of-mouth, for me, are no substitute for browsing through the book and talking to the author. >As mentioned, I want to go to GenCon for the atmosphere and to meet >people. Last time I started to plan a trip, I intended to not join in >a single organized game... if I gamed, it was going to be because I'd >found neat people and we wanted to game together. The last few times I went, I was playing in about one 4-hour slot a day, usually running in another, and spending the rest of the time socialising and/or in the dealers' room. -- Roger, gaming grognard Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote: RBW>Fair enough. Stabcon was about 1/5 of that, and isn't a "local" RBW>convention for me; the BRS cons are cheaper (because I don't have to RBW>drive as far). I haven't been to conventions in Europe, but I'm giving RBW>serious thought to going to Linkjo"ping next year... It's all perspective. Anything within a six-hour drive is "local" 'round these parts. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 09:11:09AM -0500, Karen J. Cravens wrote: >It's all perspective. Anything within a six-hour drive is "local" 'round >these parts. In six hours I could get to pretty much anywhere in England. :-) -- Roger, gaming grognard Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote: RBW>In six hours I could get to pretty much anywhere in England. :-) Heh. That's why I didn't have to look up where Stabcon was held in order to say that. Four hours gets us to Kansas City, Oklahoma City, or Tulsa, all good-sized cities, and a decent day trip. Six gets us to Omaha or Dallas/Fort Worth, which is pretty much gonna be an overnighter, so only marginally local. Indy is something like a twelve- or fourteen-hour trip, as I recall (I haven't driven it since when we moved here). -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
Karen J. Cravens wrote: > Four hours gets us to Kansas City, Oklahoma City, or Tulsa, all good-sized > cities, and a decent day trip. Six gets us to Omaha or Dallas/Fort Worth, > which is pretty much gonna be an overnighter, so only marginally local. > Indy is something like a twelve- or fourteen-hour trip, as I recall (I > haven't driven it since when we moved here). > Wow, whenever we drove from Dallas to KC (for the faire), it used to take us 8 hours, and I thought we were going pretty fast. -- --Guy Hoyle "Live every day as if you're dying Of a contagious disease that turns people you bite into zombies." The Onion, January 25, 2006 | Issue 42•04
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Guy Hoyle wrote: GH>Wow, whenever we drove from Dallas to KC (for the faire), it used to GH>take us 8 hours, and I thought we were going pretty fast. Sounds about right. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote:
> In six hours I could get to pretty much anywhere in England. :-)
It's about twelve hours from here to Indy. (Eleven if you drive fast
and don't stop.)
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner
[ The Fudge List -- http://fudge.phoenyx.net/ ]
New Mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/N)
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Tim Hall wrote: TH>I really don't get this Renaissance Fayre thing you have in the US; I Course not. Because having you guys do Basic Faire Accent would just be *wrong* on so many levels. TH>can't think of anything quite like it in Britain. I'm told they have a TH>lot of rodeos in Germany, which is sort of equivalent. Germany must have some pretty strange rodeos then. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
Karen J. Cravens wrote: > On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Tim Hall wrote: > > TH>I really don't get this Renaissance Fayre thing you have in the US; I > > Course not. Because having you guys do Basic Faire Accent would just be > *wrong* on so many levels. Basic Faire Accent? Sounds like Hurting Wrongness to start with ;) > TH>can't think of anything quite like it in Britain. I'm told they have a > TH>lot of rodeos in Germany, which is sort of equivalent. > > Germany must have some pretty strange rodeos then. Well, we're talking about the nation that (a) entered a Country and Western song in the Eurovision Song Contest, and (b) where David Hasselhoff is a major star.
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Tim Hall wrote: TH>Basic Faire Accent? Sounds like Hurting Wrongness to start with ;) It generally is, yes. And, see, now I *really* want to take you guys to a faire so I can point and laugh when someone tries to critique your accents. TH>Well, we're talking about the nation that (a) entered a Country and TH>Western song in the Eurovision Song Contest, and (b) where David TH>Hasselhoff is a major star. And rodeos are, I have to admit, a little strange to begin with. Except it's such a *very* American sort of strange that I can't figure out how it would translate. Heck, it doesn't even translate out of certain *parts* of America. I never saw much point in 'em, myself, until I went to a convention (software, not game) in San Antonio. Most of the users of the software (and the company that produced it) were from Minnesoooooota and Wisconsin. Part of the convention festivities involved riding a bus out to a ranch and having Texas-style barbecue (culture shock), armadillo races (more culture shock) and finally, after considerable free booze, a miniature Texas rodeo (lots more culture shock). Then I discovered the point: confusing tourists. There are *customs,* you see, like the color guard. Do they *do* that in German rodeo? -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
>> MF>Allison has a north-of-Boston accent (yes, that's different from the >> MF>south-of-Boston one). But no one really has a Baahhhston accent >> MF>anymore, they seem to have died out. >> >> They died young, then... when I was in high school a friend of mine was >> a recent Boston import, and we were always pestering him to say "pahk the >> cah." He was my age[1], or thereabouts. > > When I moved here from Mass (Hanscom AFB) back in '81ish, I apparently had > a really strong Bahston accent. One of many things that made life in > small-town Kansas unpleasant for me. '81 is when I moved to Boston. The accent was heard but it's become a lot less common. I think it has to due with the population change-over that Mass. has seen. Thinking about my extended circle of friends, very few of them were born in Mass. Less than five, I think. -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com caulay@gmail.com
Roger Burton West wrote: > This sort of thing happens much less at British cons, basically because > we don't have that many designers over here. Phil Masters is great but > I'm gaming with him every week already so I don't need to buttonhole him > at a con; Marcus Rowland is also good people, but he's on Pyramid and > uk.games.roleplay; James Wallis is out of the hobby these days. Who else > is actively writing stuff? Tim, any thoughts? Jamie Revell (aka Trotsky) has written some HeroQuest material. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head. Jo Ramsey (formerly Jo Hart) has written some In Nomine stuff, but I haven't seen her at a con for several years. > I've had good gaming experiences at GenCon, but I've also had some > pretty bad ones there (nothing like Carl and Karen's, but still not > fun). Stabcon works because it stays small and friendly. I've had some Mediocre experiences at Gencon, but nothing *really* bad. And I've had a couple of really good ones; the best was probably the In Nomine game run by Jo Hart at GenConUK 2000, which ended with a firefight with Tony Blair's bodyguards at a village fete in Devon. > I think I've worked out why it is I didn't spot you last time - your > speaking style is very different from your writing style. (It's quite > possible mine is too; I don't notice. This time the heat was giving me > speech buffer underflows every few sentences, which can't have helped.) I don't think anyone's speaking style is the same as their writing style.
> I'm kind of disappointed that MikeF doesn't have a good Baahhhston accent, > but he's non-native. Allison has a north-of-Boston accent (yes, that's different from the south-of-Boston one). But no one really has a Baahhhston accent anymore, they seem to have died out. Of course, the accent you're talking about is really a Beacon Hill accent, guys from Southie or the North End will talk very differently (Southie is *very* Irish and the North End is *very* Italian). -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com caulay@gmail.com
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Michael Feldhusen wrote:
MF>Allison has a north-of-Boston accent (yes, that's different from the
MF>south-of-Boston one). But no one really has a Baahhhston accent anymore,
MF>they seem to have died out.
They died young, then... when I was in high school a friend of mine was a
recent Boston import, and we were always pestering him to say "pahk the
cah." He was my age[1], or thereabouts.
Though now I think about it, Nelson probably *did* die young. I don't
even remember his last name; I just remember whenever you mentioned Nelson
around my house you had to pause so my mother could interject "Poor
Nelson" into the sentence: "Mom, can I go to the youth group thing with
Dave and Nelson..." ("poor Nelson") "... and Sarah?" Nelson left the
roller rink in an ambulance (his leg turned out not to be broken), had to
be taken to the ER after the water park (cut his lip open on his teeth,
needed stitches), and so on.
--
Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
[1] 41 today.
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Michael Feldhusen wrote: > > MF>Allison has a north-of-Boston accent (yes, that's different from the > MF>south-of-Boston one). But no one really has a Baahhhston accent anymore, > MF>they seem to have died out. > > They died young, then... when I was in high school a friend of mine was a > recent Boston import, and we were always pestering him to say "pahk the > cah." He was my age[1], or thereabouts. When I moved here from Mass (Hanscom AFB) back in '81ish, I apparently had a really strong Bahston accent. One of many things that made life in small-town Kansas unpleasant for me. -Bill Hamilton
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Bill Hamilton wrote: BH>When I moved here from Mass (Hanscom AFB) back in '81ish, I apparently had BH>a really strong Bahston accent. One of many things that made life in BH>small-town Kansas unpleasant for me. You know, I *thought* your a's were a bit broad. I grew up speaking pretty much General American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American) but when I moved to Kansas and then went back to Indiana a year or two later I was received with "OH MY GOSH YOU'VE GOT AN ACCENT!" So I have a certain amount of "newer South American English" (-ing is always -in', etc.) in there too. A lot of the dialect part I picked up as self-referencing humor, and it ended up sticking, so anymore I say "reckon" and such naturally. (It's still "I reckon" and not "Ah reckon," but give me another couple decades...) But I do not yet suffer from the Pin-Pen Merger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_the_high_front_vowels#Pin-pen_merger) as does Carl. (Okay, we're just going to have a Skype get-together or something here...) -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 04:44:02PM -0500, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > But I do not yet suffer from the Pin-Pen Merger > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_the_high_front_vowels#Pin-pen_merger) > as does Carl. I went to see "An Inconvenient Truth" last weekend (true American movie: lots of gore), and at one point Al is referring to "Pahn" trees. It took me a few mentions before I figured out that he was talking about Pine trees. Since I'm completely clueless about botany, it was fully plausible to me that there was a well-known breed of tree I'd never heard of. I eventually figured out that he was talking about the e-mail client I used to use. -Rob -- --Prof. Robert Knop Department of Physics & Astronomy, Vanderbilt University robert.a.knop@vanderbilt.edu
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: RAKJ>I went to see "An Inconvenient Truth" last weekend (true American movie: That's not playing in Wichita, so we went to see "Cars" instead. There's probably something to be read into that. RAKJ>lots of gore), and at one point Al is referring to "Pahn" trees. It took me RAKJ>a few mentions before I figured out that he was talking about Pine trees. You need to hear Bill say (non-seriously) "pah." Sometimes we have "apple pah" at our games. Possibly next week we'll have strawberry-rhubarb pah. I don't make my own pah crusts, though. Pet-Ritz, baby. Which brings us back properly on-topic for the list. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Karen J. Cravens wrote:
> But I do not yet suffer from the Pin-Pen Merger
> as does Carl.
Weird thing is, it doesn't sound out of place at all when you say
"pen". And I can say "pin" and "pen" correctly and "pen" doesn't
seem at all strange. Probably because of TV and movies.
But if I'm not thinking about it, I pronounce them the same ("pin"),
because I grew up with everyone around saying it that way. (I grew up
in rural Kansas.) And I say "howdy" with a straight face.
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net) Gamers List Owner
[ The Fudge List -- http://fudge.phoenyx.net/ ]
Life is complex. You know - part real, part imaginary.
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 08:32:27AM -0500, Carl D Cravens wrote: > And I say "howdy" with a straight face. I've been doing that for years, even though I was born in Connecticut, lived there 9 years, and lived there rest of my life until age 33 in California.... -Rob -- --Prof. Robert Knop Department of Physics & Astronomy, Vanderbilt University robert.a.knop@vanderbilt.edu
> > Germany must have some pretty strange rodeos then. No more than American rodeos, although I've only seen one of each. Western stuff is quite popular in some parts of Germany. Especially things to do with Native Americans, whom the Germans have quite a romanticized view of. > > Well, we're talking about the nation that (a) entered a > Country and Western song in the Eurovision Song Contest, and > (b) where David Hasselhoff is a major star. a) Once you are familiar with the other music Germans produce (especially Volkslieder), you understand why this is; a) David Hasselhoff is no longer a major star here in Germany. Ciao, Joseph R. Dietrich joseph@joespace.net
Joseph R. Dietrich wrote: > Western stuff is quite popular in some parts of Germany. Especially things > to do with Native Americans, whom the Germans have quite a romanticized view > of. A bit like the American romanticized view of Medieval Europe, perhaps? (Which is where we came in) > a) Once you are familiar with the other music Germans produce (especially > Volkslieder), you understand why this is; Can't say I've even heard of Volkslieder. Most German music I'm familiar with is metal bands like Rammstein, The Scorpions or Accept. There's Boney M, of course. But every major nation has produced it's fair share of cheese. > a) David Hasselhoff is no longer a major star here in Germany. According to Amazon, their's a significant overlap between the fanbases of David Hasselhoff and William Shatner :)
On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 12:46:19PM -0500, Tim Hall wrote: >Joseph R. Dietrich wrote: >> Western stuff is quite popular in some parts of Germany. Especially things >> to do with Native Americans, whom the Germans have quite a romanticized view >> of. >A bit like the American romanticized view of Medieval Europe, perhaps? >(Which is where we came in) I don't think it's quite that simple. We have mediaevael reenactment groups in the UK, after all - we've even got significant numbers of SCA people, I believe, as well as the Far Isles who are basically an SCA splinter group. But (a) most of the British reenactors I've heard of are _battle_ reenactors in proper costume and live steel rather than doing things SCA style, and (b) we don't have events that are open to the public, the way I understand Faires to be. The reenactor types here tend not to cater very much for people who take a casual interest in things but don't want to go full-tilt about it; that's left to the LARP crowd (of whom there are also lots), but even then you're basically committed to going to the middle of nowhere for a weekend rather than turning up on a whim to see what happens. The point of which - I think there's a point in here - is that while there's still a romanticised view present in the general population the hobby is a lot more marginal than in the USA. >According to Amazon, their's a significant overlap between the fanbases >of David Hasselhoff and William Shatner :) "For crying out loud, Jim, you're a television personality, not an actor!" -- Roger, gaming grognard Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote: > > I don't think it's quite that simple. We have mediaevael reenactment > groups in the UK, after all - we've even got significant numbers of SCA > people, I believe, as well as the Far Isles who are basically an SCA > splinter group. But (a) most of the British reenactors I've heard of are > _battle_ reenactors in proper costume and live steel rather than doing > things SCA style, and (b) we don't have events that are open to the > public, the way I understand Faires to be. The reenactor types here tend > not to cater very much for people who take a casual interest in things > but don't want to go full-tilt about it; that's left to the LARP crowd > (of whom there are also lots), but even then you're basically committed > to going to the middle of nowhere for a weekend rather than turning up > on a whim to see what happens. Your reenactors sound like an analogue to our American Civil War reenactors. It's not a performance, it's just a bunch of people having fun for a weekend. I'm really not sure what Renfaires in the US are. They're their own thing, I think. -Bill Hamilton
> I'm really not sure what Renfaires in the US are. They're their own > thing, I think. A combination of set performances, street/improvisational theater and shopping all with a vague common theme. -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com caulay@gmail.com
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Michael Feldhusen wrote: MF>A combination of set performances, street/improvisational theater and MF>shopping all with a vague common theme. That theme being "cleavage," I think. Or maybe "sunburn." And in many cases, both. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
> MF>A combination of set performances, street/improvisational theater and > MF>shopping all with a vague common theme. > > That theme being "cleavage," I think. > > Or maybe "sunburn." > > And in many cases, both. Forsooth, m'lady, I do believe thou art correct. -- Michael Feldhusen mike_f@io.com caulay@gmail.com
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Bill Hamilton wrote: BH>The SCA does a lot of fighting, and it's a big part of the social activity BH>of the group. But, there also is a lot of "arts and sciences," recreation BH>of period items using period methods, that is just as important overall. BH>Live steel is strictly off-limits across all the kingdoms, though several BH>do have a "light fighting" offshoot that fight in Rennaisance styles using BH>fencing or schlager blades. The way it usually got explained to me is a very earnest "No, really, it's *not* just all about the fighting, we have X, Y, and Z also, and if you're interested in that we'd *really* like to have you join," and then I say "...because you need plausibility when you say it isn't all about fighting?" and they admit that yeah, there's a grain of truth in that... OTOH, that was what, fifteen, sixteen years ago? So possibly things have changed with the whole mainstreaming of stuff. BH>They're not so much "private." Most groups I knew of were okay with BH>people showing up, even people showing up in garb. But, if you show up, BH>you're not an "audience" that they play to; you're a participant, and BH>expected to behave appropriately. That was why I put scare-quotes around "private," yeah. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote: RBW>I don't think it's quite that simple. We have mediaevael reenactment RBW>groups in the UK, after all - we've even got significant numbers of SCA RBW>people, I believe, as well as the Far Isles who are basically an SCA RBW>splinter group. But (a) most of the British reenactors I've heard of are RBW>_battle_ reenactors in proper costume and live steel rather than doing RBW>things SCA style, and (b) we don't have events that are open to the I think the emphasis in the SCA is still fighting, though for live steel I think you still have to go to a splinter group. Although the SCA tends to have a (sometimes significant) presence at any given faire, they're not SCA events. I'm not really sure how that all came to be. RBW>public, the way I understand Faires to be. The reenactor types here tend RBW>not to cater very much for people who take a casual interest in things RBW>but don't want to go full-tilt about it; that's left to the LARP crowd RBW>(of whom there are also lots), but even then you're basically committed RBW>to going to the middle of nowhere for a weekend rather than turning up RBW>on a whim to see what happens. Yes, the SCA and other reenactors have their own "private" events, at least 'round these parts. RBW>The point of which - I think there's a point in here - is that while RBW>there's still a romanticised view present in the general population the RBW>hobby is a lot more marginal than in the USA. It used to be more marginal than it is now. I'd be curious to see actual statistics, but seems like there are new faires cropping up like mushrooms. It's becoming much more mainstream, either as a result of things like LOTR, or as a result of whatever it was that caused LOTR (and D&D, to keep things closer to on-topic) to become more mainstream. There's also a certain tendency toward moving away from any pretense of historical accuracy, toward a more "fantasy" theme, as far as I can tell. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 04:22:31PM -0500, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Roger Burton West wrote: > > RBW>I don't think it's quite that simple. We have mediaevael reenactment > RBW>groups in the UK, after all - we've even got significant numbers of SCA > RBW>people, I believe, as well as the Far Isles who are basically an SCA > RBW>splinter group. But (a) most of the British reenactors I've heard of are > RBW>_battle_ reenactors in proper costume and live steel rather than doing > RBW>things SCA style, and (b) we don't have events that are open to the > > I think the emphasis in the SCA is still fighting, though for live steel I > think you still have to go to a splinter group. Wouldn't a splinter group use wooden weapons? Probably of unfinished wood? -- Chuk Goodin cgoodin@sfu.ca Alien Light GM http://www.phoenyx.net/alienlight
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > I think the emphasis in the SCA is still fighting, though for live steel I > think you still have to go to a splinter group. Although the SCA tends to > have a (sometimes significant) presence at any given faire, they're not > SCA events. I'm not really sure how that all came to be. The SCA does a lot of fighting, and it's a big part of the social activity of the group. But, there also is a lot of "arts and sciences," recreation of period items using period methods, that is just as important overall. Live steel is strictly off-limits across all the kingdoms, though several do have a "light fighting" offshoot that fight in Rennaisance styles using fencing or schlager blades. > Yes, the SCA and other reenactors have their own "private" events, at > least 'round these parts. They're not so much "private." Most groups I knew of were okay with people showing up, even people showing up in garb. But, if you show up, you're not an "audience" that they play to; you're a participant, and expected to behave appropriately. -Bill "Haven't played in the SCA for years" Hamilton
On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 05:40:08PM -0500, Bill Hamilton wrote: >The SCA does a lot of fighting, and it's a big part of the social activity >of the group. But, there also is a lot of "arts and sciences," recreation >of period items using period methods, that is just as important overall. >Live steel is strictly off-limits across all the kingdoms, though several >do have a "light fighting" offshoot that fight in Rennaisance styles using >fencing or schlager blades. The reenactor types in the UK tend to know who's going to win before the fight starts, and have fun making it look good, using kit that's as realistic as possible. (As I understand it, that's what the ACW reenactors usually do too.) The LARP types have no idea who's going to win, and use lots of foam and latex. (I have seen a latex chainsaw being sold by one of the LARP-weapon shops. All in one piece, of course.) The SCA and Far Isles types are somewhere in between, and most people who feel strongly about fighting (in either direction) seem to drift to one of the other groups eventually. >They're not so much "private." Most groups I knew of were okay with >people showing up, even people showing up in garb. But, if you show up, >you're not an "audience" that they play to; you're a participant, and >expected to behave appropriately. At least in the UK, the events aren't at places you'd show up in by accident - the Far Isles do things like hiring the castle (youth hostel) at St Briavels for a weekend, which is far enough away from any major population centre that it takes some effort to get there. -- Roger, gaming grognard Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Bill Hamilton wrote: BH>Your reenactors sound like an analogue to our American Civil War BH>reenactors. It's not a performance, it's just a bunch of people having BH>fun for a weekend. OTOH, that's another reenactment period that's starting to become more mainstream. There was a mountain man/black powder convention thingy as a River Festival event this year. I don't know how successful it was, but it was at least an attempt to be mainstream. -- Karen J. Cravens silver@phoenyx.net
On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 04:25:18PM -0500, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > OTOH, that's another reenactment period that's starting to become more > mainstream. There was a mountain man/black powder convention t
