Restrictions

This comes from a recent thread on the Transhuman Space mailing list. A
poster suggested that he'd like to see an update on the world setting
when the 4th edition compatibility book comes out, and someone else said
he'd like to see what happens with interstellar travel experiments.

Now, THS is basically a "hard science" setting... up to a point, anyway.
Sure, there's miracle biotech, but spaceships still need huge radiator
panels, and there's no artificial gravity, FTL, magic, psi,
extraterrestrials, or other stuff of that sort that would require
radically new theories.

So far so good. Restrictions can make for interesting art. That's
established, I think.

But what THS has that most settings don't is a lack of shadowy stuff.
Pretty much every standard trope can be fitted in as either "yes, we
know about this, and it works" or "no, this doesn't exist in the
setting". There's very little in the category of "well, it _might_ be
out there", the way you can have new alien races in Traveller or sudden
secret arcane magic in D&D or...

It's making running my current campaign quite a challenge, because
there's no standard "here's weird stuff for your PCs to look into". Is
there any other setting that does this in the same way?

-- 
Roger, gaming grognard
Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/

Restrictions

> But what THS has that most settings don't is a lack of shadowy stuff.
[...]
> It's making running my current campaign quite a challenge, 
> because there's no standard "here's weird stuff for your PCs 
> to look into". Is there any other setting that does this in 
> the same way?

Off the top of my head, Twilight: 2000 was pretty much like that (although
IIRC, there was a one-shot weird stuff adventure). No magical stuff outside
of some fanciful weapons systems, just the standard human drama you get when
things get tough and people struggle against one another for resources and
power.

But then I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here, so maybe I'm not
answering you at all ...

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
joseph@joespace.net

Restrictions

Roger Burton West  wrote:It's making running my current campaign quite a challenge, because
there's no standard "here's weird stuff for your PCs to look into". Is
there any other setting that does this in the same way?


Wouldn't Cyberpunk (or a slew of modern/hard sci-fi settings) fall into into a similar category? To me, THS has a very cyberpunkish feel.  Almost a conspiracy-like setting, with major powers duking it out and the pcs being the small fish in the pond. 

Anyways, why couldn't you add the unknown? An unknown corporate entity? An unknown government agency? An unknown colony hidden on mars? etc. 




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Restrictions

On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 12:13:48PM -0500, Aaron Deskins wrote:

>Wouldn't Cyberpunk (or a slew of modern/hard sci-fi settings) fall into into a similar category?

I don't believe so. There are lots of things in Cyberpunk that aren't
general knowledge; they're only known by a few people, but when the PCs
discover them and spread the news a bit they don't really make a huge
difference because most people never hear about them (corporate media
stamps on the story, and so on).

But THS has _really good communications_; as soon as more than a few
people know a secret, the entire world is talking about it, and changes
shape to accommodate it.

>To me, THS has a very cyberpunkish feel.  Almost a conspiracy-like setting, with major powers duking it out and the pcs being the small fish in the pond. 

To me, THS is what Cyberpunk wants to be when it gets out of its teenage
"big guns, black, loud music and chopping off your arms to shock your
parents" years. No offence intended, and I realise there are good
Cyberpunk games out there, but that's the way it tends to go.

-- 
Roger, gaming grognard
Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/

Restrictions

Roger Burton West  wrote: On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 12:13:48PM -0500, Aaron Deskins wrote:

>Wouldn't Cyberpunk (or a slew of modern/hard sci-fi settings) fall into into a similar category?

I don't believe so. There are lots of things in Cyberpunk that aren't
general knowledge; they're only known by a few people, but when the PCs
discover them and spread the news a bit they don't really make a huge
difference because most people never hear about them (corporate media
stamps on the story, and so on).

But THS has _really good communications_; as soon as more than a few
people know a secret, the entire world is talking about it, and changes
shape to accommodate it.


Perhaps I don't know THS that well. I own the book, but have never played it.

I'll be honest, the premise that everyone (or the importants) knows something once it's 'out of the bag', seems a little far-fetched to me. I believe this totally ignores social and psychological factors. Just because information is available, doesn't mean everyone cares about it, or everyone has time to follow that information, or everyone has a need to divulge that information. If the premise of THS is that every move everyone makes is monitored, and everybody else follows those movements, then I agree. That would be a very difficult (and probably boring) game to play. 



To me, THS is what Cyberpunk wants to be when it gets out of its teenage
"big guns, black, loud music and chopping off your arms to shock your
parents" years. No offence intended, and I realise there are good
Cyberpunk games out there, but that's the way it tends to go.

No offence taken. I'm not a Cyberpunk guru, but based my comparison of THS with Cyberpunk on the feel of the games. Dark, dreary future where interaction with technology is a predominant part of everyone's lives. 




--------------------------------
If people insult you or call you a dwarf, shake it off. You may be small and far from the sun, but that just brings you closer to the other stars. 

- Steve Inskeep, NPR
 		
---------------------------------

Restrictions

On Sun, Sep 24, 2006 at 10:09:26PM -0500, Aaron Deskins wrote:

>If the premise of THS is that every move everyone makes is monitored, and everybody else follows those movements, then I agree. That would be a very difficult (and probably boring) game to play. 

Let's say that it's hard to avoid monitoring in certain places. If a
spaceship were to be hijacked, for example, the moment it deviated from
its course everyone with an interest in space traffic would know about
it - there are people who rent telescope time just because they feel
like watching things - and there'd probably be a fairly immediate naval
response.

>No offence taken. I'm not a Cyberpunk guru, but based my comparison of THS with Cyberpunk on the feel of the games. Dark, dreary future where interaction with technology is a predominant part of everyone's lives. 

THS is dark and dreary?

If you're in one of the advanced countries - or you can get to one - you
can live forever. You probably work about 20-30 hours a week, and at the
top end people look at you oddly for putting in so much effort. If you
want to experience other planets, or the bottom of the sea, you can,
either teleoperating a full-sensorium robot or actually going in person.
The entirety of human literature and culture is at your fingertips, for
a modest fee.

It's no paradise, but it's certainly a nice place to live.

-- 
Roger, gaming grognard
Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/

Restrictions

Roger Burton West  wrote:THS is dark and dreary?

If you're in one of the advanced countries - or you can get to one - you
can live forever. You probably work about 20-30 hours a week, and at the
top end people look at you oddly for putting in so much effort. If you
want to experience other planets, or the bottom of the sea, you can,
either teleoperating a full-sensorium robot or actually going in person.
The entirety of human literature and culture is at your fingertips, for
a modest fee.

It's no paradise, but it's certainly a nice place to live.

As mentioned, I'm not THS or cyberpunk guru, but my impression from the book was that these great things exist, but so many people live dreary, unhappy lives with slavery, drug-addiction, etc. being common place. 

I guess if THS was supposed to be this great setting to live in, wouldn't the artwork in the book have been in pastels, rather than drab dark browns, blacks, etc.? :)





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- Steve Inskeep, NPR
 		
---------------------------------
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Restrictions

Aaron Deskins wrote:

> As mentioned, I'm not THS or cyberpunk guru, but my impression from
> the book was that these great things exist, but so many people live
> dreary, unhappy lives with slavery, drug-addiction, etc. being common
> place.

THS promotes itself as a generally optimistic view of the future, in 
contrast to most Cyberpunks settings which are explicitly dystopian. 
But it's not a complete utopia either; utopias tend not to make very 
exciting adventure settings.

The trouble I have with THS is that it's a big sprawling setting with no 
real focus. Sure, there's a lot of stuff for PCs to do, but it doesn't 
have a 'core story' in the way Cyberpunk or Call of Cthulhu does.

> I guess if THS was supposed to be this great setting to live in,
> wouldn't the artwork in the book have been in pastels, rather than
> drab dark browns, blacks, etc.? :)

Well, you're not the first person to notice the mismatch between the 
tone of the setting and the tone of the artwork.

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On Mon, Sep 25, 2006 at 04:40:54PM -0500, Tim Hall wrote:

>THS promotes itself as a generally optimistic view of the future, in 
>contrast to most Cyberpunks settings which are explicitly dystopian. 
>But it's not a complete utopia either; utopias tend not to make very 
>exciting adventure settings.

I think that's fair.

>The trouble I have with THS is that it's a big sprawling setting with no 
>real focus. Sure, there's a lot of stuff for PCs to do, but it doesn't 
>have a 'core story' in the way Cyberpunk or Call of Cthulhu does.

It has _lots_ of core stories. It's a full world, not a single campaign.
That's glib but I think it's valid: sure, the "core story" of D&D is
"kill creatures and take their stuff", but most of the more interesting
D&D games I played went a long way beyond that.

Indeed, that's why I've tended to get bored with Cyberpunk games - they
almost always end up telling the _same_ story...

But yeah, this lack of focus on a single campaigning environment has
been mentioned before. One of the things that's apparently coming up in
_Changing Times_ (the rules upgrade for THS to GURPS4) is a bunch of
campaign possibilities to give GMs some idea of the sorts of game to
which the setting lends itself.

-- 
Roger, gaming grognard
Lots of role-playing stuff: http://tekeli.li/