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Discussion, mostly technical, about running Phoenyx groups goes here. Hypotheticals and wishlists go in stakeholders.
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KarenCravens
Karen Cravens

Wed

May 26
1999

02:15Z

Opinion time

Okay, I'm setting up the default behaviors of the new software, and 
I need some opinions.

First off, "mailing lists" are heretofore referred to as "groups," 
because that's what they're being called these days (when they're 
not "communities," which I draw the line at).

So what used to be known as "groups" are now "topics."  Say 
we've got two topics defined on this list, "chat" (which is 
socializing, which I haven't encouraged much of lately because we 
*don't* have the topics turned on here yet), and "prospects" (which 
is where all the forms from people who want to be gamemasters 
go).

Topics will (but don't yet!) work as follows:
listowners@phoenyx.net goes to the whole list
listowners+chat@phoenyx.net goes to only those signed up for 
"chat"
listowners+prospects@phoenyx.net goes ditto.
listowners+chat+prospects@phoenyx.net goes to everyone on 
either list (only one copy if you're on both). (That particular 
combination of subtopics is pretty unlikely, but you get the idea.)

Everyone is required to be a part of listowners itself, but some 
people (you know who you are) really don't want to be a part of the 
Phoenyx, so no one is required to participate in either subtopic. 
You can use them on game lists to reflect party splits (for 
example, I use them in TKR to separate "cars" only, since the AI's 
can communicate via radio without the drivers hearing) or separate 
games (for example, the Westwind or the late Pulp Adventure 
games).

Now here's where the opinions come in.  When a new listowner 
signs up to this list, are they automatically a part of all subtopic 
distributions?  I think so, but I could be wrong.

Conversely, when a new topic is created, are all users 
automatically made a part of it?  I think so again, but I could be 
wrong.


--
Karen J. Cravens  silver@phoenyx.net
The Dog Ate My Sketchbook:  http://silver.phoenyx.net/
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners


JuhaVesanto
juuso

Wed

May 26
1999

05:41Z

Opinion time

On 25 May 1999, Jason Knight wrote:
> Yes to both.  Users should be a participant in everything unless they 
> choose not to be, otherwise they will never figure out how to get 
> into the additional areas.

Agreed. 

juuso
--
IMHP Juuso Vesanto       juuso@iki.fi         http://www.iki.fi/juuso   
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

		The small girl smiles. One eyelid flickers.	
		She draws a pistol from her knickers.
		She aims it at the creature's head,
		And bang bang bang she shoots him dead.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners


JeffJohnson
Jeff Johnson

Wed

May 26
1999

09:35Z

Opinion time

I think I might have gotten confused about what you meant by
'listowners'.

I think, for every Phoenyx list/group, the listowner (group owner ?)
should be able to designate on a per-topic basis which topics are
'default' topics, ones every new subscriber gets added to automatically.
When the listowner creates a new topic, if he designates it a default
topic, all current members get added. If he doesn't so designate it,
only the listowner is added.

I haven't used topics yet, so maybe it already works this way.

For this list, the listowners list, I think all the topics should be
default topics, and the message you get when you join should list them
all and explain how to remove yourself from any you're not interested
in.

----
Jeff Johnson
jsjohnso@islandnet.com

I've been  feeling really apathetic lately.
Like today -- Jimmy cracked corn, but I don't care.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners


CarlCravens
Carl D Cravens

Wed

May 26
1999

12:30Z

Opinion time

On 26 May 1999, Frank Wallen wrote:
> Does this apply to all lists, or just the listowners list? If it's just the
> listowners list, then yes, if not, leave it up to the listowner.

But before the new listowner can decide, the software has to default to
some behavior, which is what Karen is asking about.  If the listowner
doesn't mess with it, how will it behave?

--
Carl (raven@phoenyx.net)

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners


MikeF
Mike Feldhusen

Wed

May 26
1999

13:39Z

Opinion time

At 10:17 PM 5/25/99, Jason Knight wrote:

>On 25 May 99, at 21:15, Karen J Cravens wrote:
>
>> Okay, I'm setting up the default behaviors of the new software, and 
>> I need some opinions.
>
>I have some extras.

Strangely, so do I.
 
>> Now here's where the opinions come in.  When a new listowner 
>> signs up to this list, are they automatically a part of all subtopic
>> distributions?  I think so, but I could be wrong.
>> Conversely, when a new topic is created, are all users 
>> automatically made a part of it?  I think so again, but I could be 
>> wrong.
>
>Yes to both.  Users should be a participant in everything unless they 
>choose not to be, otherwise they will never figure out how to get 
>into the additional areas.

I agree that "Yes to both" is a good default.  However, I would also
suggest that it be possible to override that on a "per group" basis.  I
know, that means more work.


-- 
Michael Feldhusen					mikef@pharlap.com
    http://excalibur.pharlap.com/homepage.html


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners

KarenCravens
Karen Cravens

Thu

May 27
1999

03:05Z

Opinion time

In article <000401bea75a$f8201560$4a718e8b@jsjohnso>,
"Jeff Johnson"  wrote:
>I think I might have gotten confused about what you meant by
>'listowners'.

It means "example list."

>I haven't used topics yet, so maybe it already works this way.

Sort of.  In the current way, there's one master file, which
contains an entry for each user.  'Sgot everything about that
user.  Whenever a message goes out, the software parses that file
and collects all the users that meet the appropriate criteria:
usually just "not unsubscribed" and "not digest recipient."  If
it's a subgroup message, it also tests for "no subgroup setting
at all, or one that matches this subgroup."  Kind of an odd way
of doing things:  up until you join a subgroup, you're a member
of all of them.  Subgroup existence is more nebulous:  you can
post to anything as a subgroup, and it will always at least go to
people who haven't made any other subgroup selection.

No, it doesn't make much sense.

The new software works differently.  The master file contains all
the information on each user.  But there are distribution lists
after that...  "distrib" (default) and "digest" (digest) are the
two special cases, and then after that there are all the subtopic
ones.  Topics are explicitly defined, too.

This leads up to another opinion question:  it is presently
possible to send to two group of people in the same post.
Suppose testlist has topics foo and bar... someone posts to
testlist+foo+bar, and it happily goes to everyone in either
topic.  Now they send to testlist+baz.  At present, that will
come back to them with a "There were no recipients." warning.
(That will also happen if the topic is defined but no one is
signed up for it.)  What should happen if they post to
testlist+foo+baz?  They'll have *some* valid recipients (foo),
but should the software reject it because of baz or just send a
"Didn't you mean 'bar'?" type of warning?

The primary difference here is if someone posts to foo+baz, then
reposts to catch +bar, they'll double-post to the digest/archives
and to anyone who is a member of both.  

--  Karen Cravens      | Phoenyx PBeM RPG Listserver: majordomo@phoenyx.net
    silver@phoenyx.net | http://www.phoenyx.net/
          If you drink, don't drive.  Don't even putt.
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners


FrankWallen
Frank Wallen

Thu

May 27
1999

10:01Z

Opinion time

At 07:30 AM 5/26/99, you wrote:
>On 26 May 1999, Frank Wallen wrote:
>> Does this apply to all lists, or just the listowners list? If it's just the
>> listowners list, then yes, if not, leave it up to the listowner.
>
>But before the new listowner can decide, the software has to default to
>some behavior, which is what Karen is asking about.  If the listowner
>doesn't mess with it, how will it behave?

Sorry that I was confused. I didn't realize that 'listowners' was simply an
example name.

********************************************************************
* Frank Wallen            * 'Never insult an alligator until after *
* mailto:mrdim@excell.net *  you have crossed the river.'          *
*                         *                          - Cordel Hull *
********************************************************************

			 
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners


LynnParr
Gul Ardeth Hecat

Sun

May 30
1999

16:13Z

Opinion time

Karen J Cravens wrote:

> Now here's where the opinions come in.  When a new listowner
> signs up to this list, are they automatically a part of all subtopic
> distributions?  I think so, but I could be wrong.

My two cents worth would be that new listowners are put on all
subtopics.  It makes sense.

> Conversely, when a new topic is created, are all users
> automatically made a part of it?  I think so again, but I could be
> wrong.

If you are creating new subtopics, I would think you would want to put
users on to start with.  They can see what the subtopic is about and if
they really don't want it, they can remove themselves.

Lynn Parr
Seventh Order Cardassian PBeMs




--
     The Seventh Order -  a Cardassian RPG
             http://www.7thorder.org

"It's not safe out here!  It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate
desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
  - Q, Star Trek, The Next Generation


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners

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