While the Phoenyx is fairly bright (and getting brighter) about dealing with bounce messages, there is still one thing to remember: IF YOU SEE AN ERROR MESSAGE, THAT MEANS THE PHOENYX DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT. I'm mildly surprised, in the course of watching everyone's error messages, at the number of chronic, obviously permanent bounces on some lists... don't you guys get tired of seeing them? Please don't tell me you have them killfiled. While it's not a huge deal, wasted delivery attempts *are* a waste of our bandwidth (and the receiving site's), and it'd be good listownercitizenship to keep them cleaned up. If you have any questions about what to do with a bounce message, go peek at the help file: http://www.phoenyx.net/help/mod_bounce.html If you're hesitant to remove someone, especially note the "bounce" command at the bottom of that page... its whole purpose is to give you a way to shut down the bounce messages without losing a member who really isn't gone for good. Do *not* hesitate to use it on someone who is responding to every post with a vacation message. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 4 May 2000, Karen Cravens wrote: > If you're hesitant to remove someone, especially note the "bounce" command I don't think it was made clear that this was working again. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 4 May 2000, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>I don't think it was made clear that this was working again. It never didn't work at all. I just wasn't sure if it was working completely. It always removed them, but I wasn't sure it was removing them completely or putting them on the bounce list. Turned out it was (wait for it...) a permissions problem on certain lists. (I *still* wanna make the entire system 0777.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
> (I *still* wanna make the entire system 0777.) 0777? Silk Kendiron GM and Webmaster Red Snow - They attack at nightfall http\\www.geocities.com\silk_kendiron\red_snow.htm The human race is faced with a cruel choice: work or daytime television. -- Anonymous -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Fri, 5 May 2000, Steve Almond wrote: SA>> (I *still* wanna make the entire system 0777.) SA> SA>0777? It's an in-joke designed to make Unix sysadmins (e.g. Carl) wince. "World readable, world writable, world executable." No security whatsoever... if you can get on the system at all, you can do anything to it. (In other words, the Windows default settings...) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Fri, 5 May 2000, Steve Almond wrote: > > (I *still* wanna make the entire system 0777.) > > 0777? That indicates file permissions... skipping the zero, each digit indicates what kind of access users have to the file in order of owner, group, other/world. The digit is arrived at through looking at which bit in a binary sequence is turned on... 4=100, 2=010, 1=001. You add up the decimal (technically octal... base-8 numbering system, since that's all you can represent with three bits) values for the "on" bits to arrive at the number you see in the 777. 4 = read permission, 2 = write permission, 1 = execute permission. (If it's a directory, read permission means you can list the files, execute permission means you can access the files themselves.) So 777 means that *every* user (account) on the system has read/write/execute permissions on the file. A file with permissions of 640 would mean the owner has read/write, anyone in the group has read, and the rest of the accounts have no permissions. What's driving Karen nuts is that the web server and its files are owned by one user, while the mailing list server is owned by another. So they can access each other's files, they are in each other's groups and all the files they share have 660 (user/group read/write) permission. But if we mess up a permission (640), removing group-write access, one of the sides of the web/mail system can't write to that file. To make matters worse, and this is the problem that Karen was having trouble with, the mail server runs as a *third* user. In order to mail robot@phoenyx.net and get it to launch a program as the mailing list user instead of the mail server user, it has to use a "set userid" function which has special permissions to set the user of a program to a user other than the one that launched the program. The problem this caused was that the set-uid wrapper was discarding group information... so when the mailing list software ran as the mailing list user when launched by the mail server, it didn't belong in any groups. Where user/group/other was concerned, it became "other" in relation to the web-server owned files instead of "group" as was intended. I fixed this on Monday, once I realized what it was doing. So, Karen wants to make all the files on the system other-readable/writable, so that any user on the system can write to any file and she won't have to worry about glitches like this. This is bad for Unix security, so I don't let her do that. And being the good wife she is, she puts up with it. :) There... more than you ever wanted to know about Unix file permissions. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 4 May 2000, Karen Cravens wrote: > I'm mildly surprised, in the course of watching everyone's error messages, > at the number of chronic, obviously permanent bounces on some lists... > don't you guys get tired of seeing them? I got bounces from time to time, but I usually don't unsub or bounce them right at first. More often than not the problem is transitory, and so I wait for a few bounces at least before I do the unsub. Am I doing right or wrong? juuso -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 4 May 2000, Juuso Vesanto wrote:
JV>I got bounces from time to time, but I usually don't unsub or bounce them
JV>right at first. More often than not the problem is transitory, and so
JV>I wait for a few bounces at least before I do the unsub. Am I doing right
JV>or wrong?
If the problem looks transitory ("host not found" usually means someone
has screwed up their config sitewide, and that shouldn't last), letting
it go for a few hours is not bad. But if it goes more than 24 hours, you
may as well bounce them; they're not getting the mail anyway.
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
