This one's looking pretty good to me, but I want a second opinion. Of most concern to me is the "freeform" nature in which the GM has very little planned out (or is refusing to tell me what he has planned after asking twice). Players in general are reactive, not pro-active, and I've seen more than one game die due to lack of player motivation. I need opinions in this area. (As a reminder, we're here to serve the player and lurker by providing interesting games run by good gamemasters that are unlikely to fold before a natural closure to the game is reached. Judge the proposal by those criteria.) ========== id = STC title = Star Trek : Camelot blurb = Star Trek Camelot is based in the Trek Universe. It is now approximately 2 years after the Dominion war, and the Bajor sector is undergoing some drastic changes. The Cardassians are rebuilding, the Bajoran's colonizing through the worm hole, and a small sector of unclaimed space... has been claimed, by a very mixed ethnic group. A Human, Andorian, Klingon, and a Cardassian. They liberated the abandoned Empok Nor, and refitted her extensively, in the 18 months they have been in control of their 4 cubic light years, they have become a small economic nation, with no small amount of resources. First recognized by the Cardassians in a political ploy to put pressure on the Federation, the UFP recognized them approximately 4 months later. Camelot station now sits above a 90 Kilometer Planetoid dead center of Camelonian space, only 10 light years from Bajor, Camelot borders the Badlands on one side, Bajor space on another, Federation on the third, and touches Cardassian space. PBeM with the occasional 'live' session in a Chat/IRC room. This setting is a continuation of a Trek RPG that was being played for approximately 7 months, the GM and players all had RL situations come up that precluded the continuation of the game at the table, so I thought I'd take over and make a rather interesting setting available to others who may be interested in a setting where you don't have to be a Fleet officer, as DS9 suggests, this can be the seedier side of the Trek universe. web = genre = Trek system = Last Unicorn Games DS9 about = I've been a trek fan since the mid 70's. I've been playing and running RPG's since 1985. my first PBeM's where in the fledgling days of FidoNet and Furnet and now with the internet in general. [ requested more info ] I've been Role Playing since 1985. My ventures into electronic RP started in 1994 via Fidonet and Furnet. I currently am still a member of a Babylon 5 PBeM that's been suspended for a bit [though it's a 3.5 year old game.] (Need to nudge that GM some, perhaps he'd like to move to Phoenyx as well :), have played in a short term Morrow Project game (Chat room style.) run a DC hero's PBeM. (Plagued with problems [like a reliable Listserver] an communication problems [had several players from other than the US.] which can make for some interesting RP when local slang comes into play O.O ....) I've never been one for 'sims'. Where the person posing is writing for my character as well as others. My 'style' revolves around Action/reaction and e-mail conversation, with myself being the moderator. I am familier with, and have played in a few other short term games. [ requested more info again ] > I'd like to know a little more about the game itself... specifically > the story. You've given me background details and where everything > starts, but it's not clear where you plan to go, what kind of > characters you expect from players, etc. Show me that you've planned > this game out beyond "here's a setting, now what do I do with it." I understand. I run a free flowing, player driven game. I have events in mind that have happened and will be happening. The Players control which direction they go. I don't require they become one 'team' or 'group', If someone wishes to play a smuggler and someone else a Cardassian starship captain, it's no problem. If one has the universe worked out, it's the players that direct their game. I'm not running a trek 'Sim', where I'm going to hand the plot to the players on a platter, or "Fleet wants you to investigate X'. This is a darker, DS9 type game. The characters will need to develope characters with history, and make use of merits from the book (Such as contacts, so they'll hear about 'Fleet sending the USS Potempkin to investigate X'. :) If someone's happy to set up shop on Camelot station and be a merchant or broker (ala Quark), or get involved in the local Orion Syndicate conflict (There is an Orion on the station hiring Merc's and the like). There's a Klingon Vor'cha class cruiser undergoing repairs before she ventures back into the badlands to continue her survey. Opportunities... lots of opportunities for any character looking for adventure. > Also important is whether this game is going to be open to new > players. The Phoenyx main service is to provide games for players to > play in, and if you're game is full and won't accept new players, it > doesn't give us anything to offer to our "customer." I'm not looking for any one type of character. Loner's are just as good as team players, and those looking for others will most likely quickly find the other PC's or various NPC's that inhabit the station. Camelot does not have extradition, and as long as a person on the run doesn't violate Camelot's rules, they're welcome to stay as long as they want (or can afford.). so even the Romulan defector is welcome. I'm currently working on the website which I hope to have finished over this long weekend, and will send you the address as soon as I'm sure it's working properly. (Don't want to send you on any wild goose chases :) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
This one's got a great idea for a setting but seems to be lacking a plot.
Okay, so there's a million little hooks in there, but unless this
prospective GM has some idea of how they intend to keep at least some of the
characters together, all they're gonna catch is lots of little fish - the
GM'll be working hard to keep each Player amused.
In other words: no, they don't know what they're letting themself into.
Give them a third chance if you want. 'The secret cabal have met and
decided that your PBeM lacks a unifying element (other than location) - how
do you respond?'
Silk Kendiron
GM and Webmaster
Red Snow - They attack at nightfall
http://www.geocities.com/silk_kendiron/red_snow.htm
Ever consider what cats must think of us? I mean, here we come back from a
grocery store with the most amazing haul -- chicken, pork, half a cow. They
must think we're the greatest hunters on earth!
-- Anne Tyler
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl D Cravens
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 3:24 PM
Subject: Req> Proposal for review: STC
> This one's looking pretty good to me, but I want a second opinion. Of
> most concern to me is the "freeform" nature in which the GM has very
> little planned out (or is refusing to tell me what he has planned after
> asking twice). Players in general are reactive, not pro-active, and I've
> seen more than one game die due to lack of player motivation. I need
> opinions in this area. (As a reminder, we're here to serve the player and
> lurker by providing interesting games run by good gamemasters that are
> unlikely to fold before a natural closure to the game is reached. Judge
> the proposal by those criteria.)
>
> ==========
>
> id = STC
> title = Star Trek : Camelot
> blurb = Star Trek Camelot is based in the Trek Universe. It is now
> approximately 2 years after the Dominion war, and the Bajor
> sector is undergoing some drastic changes. The Cardassians
> are rebuilding, the Bajoran's colonizing through the worm
> hole, and a small sector of unclaimed space... has been
> claimed, by a very mixed ethnic group. A Human, Andorian,
> Klingon, and a Cardassian. They liberated the abandoned
> Empok Nor, and refitted her extensively, in the 18 months
> they have been in control of their 4 cubic light years,
> they have become a small economic nation, with no small
> amount of resources. First recognized by the Cardassians
> in a political ploy to put pressure on the Federation, the
> UFP recognized them approximately 4 months later. Camelot
> station now sits above a 90 Kilometer Planetoid dead center
> of Camelonian space, only 10 light years from Bajor,
> Camelot borders the Badlands on one side, Bajor space on
> another, Federation on the third, and touches Cardassian
> space.
>
> PBeM with the occasional 'live' session in a Chat/IRC room.
>
> This setting is a continuation of a Trek RPG that was being
> played for approximately 7 months, the GM and players all
> had RL situations come up that precluded the continuation
> of the game at the table, so I thought I'd take over and
> make a rather interesting setting available to others who
> may be interested in a setting where you don't have to be a
> Fleet officer, as DS9 suggests, this can be the seedier
> side of the Trek universe.
> web =
> genre = Trek
> system = Last Unicorn Games DS9
> about = I've been a trek fan since the mid 70's. I've been playing
> and running RPG's since 1985. my first PBeM's where in the
> fledgling days of FidoNet and Furnet and now with the
> internet in general.
>
> [ requested more info ]
>
> I've been Role Playing since 1985. My ventures into electronic RP started
> in 1994 via Fidonet and Furnet. I currently am still a member of a
Babylon
> 5 PBeM that's been suspended for a bit [though it's a 3.5 year old game.]
> (Need to nudge that GM some, perhaps he'd like to move to Phoenyx as well
> :), have played in a short term Morrow Project game (Chat room style.)
run
> a DC hero's PBeM. (Plagued with problems [like a reliable Listserver] an
> communication problems [had several players from other than the US.]
which
> can make for some interesting RP when local slang comes into
> play O.O ....) I've never been one for 'sims'. Where the person
> posing is writing for my character as well as others. My 'style' revolves
> around Action/reaction and e-mail conversation, with myself being the
> moderator. I am familier with, and have played in a few other short term
> games.
>
> [ requested more info again ]
>
> > I'd like to know a little more about the game itself... specifically
> > the story. You've given me background details and where everything
> > starts, but it's not clear where you plan to go, what kind of
> > characters you expect from players, etc. Show me that you've planned
> > this game out beyond "here's a setting, now what do I do with it."
>
> I understand. I run a free flowing, player driven game. I have events in
> mind that have happened and will be happening. The Players control which
> direction they go. I don't require they become one 'team' or 'group', If
> someone wishes to play a smuggler and someone else a Cardassian starship
> captain, it's no problem. If one has the universe worked out, it's the
> players that direct their game. I'm not running a trek 'Sim', where I'm
> going to hand the plot to the players on a platter, or "Fleet wants you to
> investigate X'. This is a darker, DS9 type game. The characters will
need
> to develope characters with history, and make use of merits from the book
> (Such as contacts, so they'll hear about 'Fleet sending the USS Potempkin
> to investigate X'. :) If someone's happy to set up shop on Camelot
> station and be a merchant or broker (ala Quark), or get involved in the
> local Orion Syndicate conflict (There is an Orion on the station hiring
> Merc's and the like). There's a Klingon Vor'cha class cruiser undergoing
> repairs before she ventures back into the badlands to continue her
> survey. Opportunities... lots of opportunities for any character looking
> for adventure.
>
> > Also important is whether this game is going to be open to new
> > players. The Phoenyx main service is to provide games for players to
> > play in, and if you're game is full and won't accept new players, it
> > doesn't give us anything to offer to our "customer."
>
> I'm not looking for any one type of character. Loner's are just as good
> as team players, and those looking for others will most likely quickly
> find the other PC's or various NPC's that inhabit the station. Camelot
> does not have extradition, and as long as a person on the run doesn't
> violate Camelot's rules, they're welcome to stay as long as they want (or
> can afford.). so even the Romulan defector is welcome. I'm currently
> working on the website which I hope to have finished over this long
> weekend, and will send you the address as soon as I'm sure it's working
> properly. (Don't want to send you on any wild goose chases :)
>
> -- --------------------------------------------------------------
> Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
>
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
Hello, Steve Almond wrote: > This one's got a great idea for a setting but seems to be lacking a plot. > Okay, so there's a million little hooks in there, but unless this > prospective GM has some idea of how they intend to keep at least some of the > characters together, all they're gonna catch is lots of little fish - the > GM'll be working hard to keep each Player amused. I would have to disagree. I think that his idea is making better use of e-mail than what others do. It sounds to me like what he wants is lots of little groups that do there own thing, occasionally mixing it up with each other, as opposed to a big group that has the same goal. I would suggest that you query his organization, and how he plans to keep things as a consistent whole, if he plans to allow other GM's in, and if he truly understands the work involved in creating a campaign world, as opposed to a campaign setting. Have Fun, Darren -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:46:45 cdt, listowners+prospects@phoenyx.net wrote: > This one's got a great idea for a setting but seems to be lacking a plot. > Okay, so there's a million little hooks in there, but unless this > prospective GM has some idea of how they intend to keep at least some of the > characters together, all they're gonna catch is lots of little fish - the > GM'll be working hard to keep each Player amused. > In other words: no, they don't know what they're letting themself into. > Give them a third chance if you want. 'The secret cabal have met and > decided that your PBeM lacks a unifying element (other than location) - how > do you respond?' > > Silk Kendiron > > GM and Webmaster > Red Snow - They attack at nightfall > http://www.geocities.com/silk_kendiron/red_snow.htm > > Ever consider what cats must think of us? I mean, here we come back from a > grocery store with the most amazing haul -- chicken, pork, half a cow. They > must think we're the greatest hunters on earth! > -- Anne Tyler > I agree. Sounds like a cool idea (I was a trekkie during the next gen years), but the fact that so many of these hooks exist will lead to way too many tangents. Simply put, no. OOC (:)): gosh, now that I've had to pass this sort of judgement, I wonder what it was like for the rest of you all to do the same for me.... _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > OOC (:)): gosh, now that I've had to pass this sort of judgement, I wonder > what it was like for the rest of you all to do the same for me.... Heh... I made that decision by myself. Your proposal didn't get grilled in this way. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Infinite Possibilities wrote: > > This one's got a great idea for a setting but seems to be lacking a plot. > > Okay, so there's a million little hooks in there, but unless this > > prospective GM has some idea of how they intend to keep at least some of the > > characters together, all they're gonna catch is lots of little fish - the > > GM'll be working hard to keep each Player amused. > > I would have to disagree. I think that his idea is making better use of e-mail > than what others do. It sounds to me like what he wants is lots of little groups > that do there own thing, occasionally mixing it up with each other, as opposed > to a big group that has the same goal. > > I would suggest that you query his organization, and how he plans to keep things > as a consistent whole, if he plans to allow other GM's in, and if he truly > understands the work involved in creating a campaign world, as opposed to a > campaign setting. I'll agree here. This *is* where an email based game shines. *As long as the GM can commit the necessary time to it.* The setting description is very good, and he really doesn't need an over-all plot for it. With some decent players, the plots will generate themselves. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Michael Feldhusen wrote: > I'll agree here. This *is* where an email based game shines. *As > long as the GM can commit the necessary time to it.* This is where our screening system falls down... we can't evaluate how much time the GM will devote to it or how good he is at handling multiple plot threads. > The setting description is very good, and he really doesn't need an > over-all plot for it. With some decent players, the plots will > generate themselves. That caveat is a big one... players, in my experience, are often reactive and *won't* generate those plots. They'll wait for the GM to prod them into action. *And* as a player I find it much harder to carry a plot thread by myself, without the help of other players. If you handed me this proposal, I wouldn't bat an eye because I've seen how you run a game. But this is difficult to make a decision on without knowing the GM. He's proposing a setup that takes more dedication and even skill than the usual game. PBeM excells at split groups, individual threads, and multiple plots. But it takes a good GM and good players. I expect player attrition to be a bigger problem in a game like this because of the GM having to divide his time and the player not seeing much impact from dropping out. (Sorry for dropping out of your game, Jason. Twice.) So... we've got two yea's and two nay's. If this were a vote, I'd have to be the tie-breaker, putting me back in the same position of making a decision as if I'd never sent this for discussion. Does anybody else have comments on this one? (Did anybody notice that his definition of "sim" was "heavily plotted?" I've always thought of sims as free-forms that had no plot.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
> On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > > > OOC (:)): gosh, now that I've had to pass this sort of judgement, I wonder > > what it was like for the rest of you all to do the same for me.... > > Heh... I made that decision by myself. Your proposal didn't get grilled > in this way. Really? I'm not sure what that implies..... _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > > > > > OOC (:)): gosh, now that I've had to pass this sort of > > > judgement, I wonder what it was like for the rest of you all to > > > do the same for me.... > > Heh... I made that decision by myself. Your proposal didn't get > > grilled in this way. > Really? I'm not sure what that implies..... It implies that you proposal good enough on it's own for Carl to know that your game would have a fairly good chance of success. In other words, it's a compliment. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
> It implies that you proposal good enough on it's own for Carl to know > that your game would have a fairly good chance of success. > > In other words, it's a compliment. Yeah, I figured (Note to self: thank Carl). It was unclear to me because I have to deal with tis person who is immensely sarcastic all the time (I'm just getting paranoid).Thanks for the compliment, Carl -Geoff _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > > It implies that you proposal good enough on it's own for Carl to know > > that your game would have a fairly good chance of success. > > > > In other words, it's a compliment. > Yeah, I figured (Note to self: thank Carl). It was unclear to me > because I have to deal with tis person who is immensely sarcastic > all the time (I'm just getting paranoid). Don't worry, there's no one around here like *that*. No siree. Your fellow GM/List-owners are all such *nice* people, and our beloved Phoenyx Owners/Admins are the nicest and most friendly of the bunch. Isn't that right everyone? (Please note, I normally do not usetags. They aren't there in TRL, why should they be in cyberspace? Of course, I initially typoed the last word of the previous sentence as cypherspace. Probably more accurate that way.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
Have you had a chance to see the proposed website? That might tell you how serious they are in execuiting what I think the list has said is an interesting premise requiring heavy GM control/weaving of the threads. BoBoII -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Michael Feldhusen wrote: > (Please note, I normally do not usetags. > They aren't there in TRL, why should they be in cyberspace? Of Because tone of voice and facial expressions are there in real life and aren't available in cyberspace. *Writing* sarcasm (and other stuff) doesn't come easily to everyone. I recently got nearly-flamed on another mailing list because someone took my smart-alecky remark as a flame. (Which, considering how there was no profanity or direct insult in the comment, I don't see how anyone could call it a flame. But that's this new generation of netters for you. I don't use such tags most of the time myself, though I do use smileys from time to time. But I'm also from the old school that says tacking on a smiley makes even the most vitrolic insult "just kidding".) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > Thanks for the compliment, Carl You're welcome. Now don't let me down. :) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:07:59 cdt, listowners+prospects@phoenyx.net wrote: > On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Geoff Lorenz wrote: > > > Thanks for the compliment, Carl > > You're welcome. Now don't let me down. :) Well I just waltzed headlong into that one, didn't I? ;) You might find it entertainiing to check out the first emails of the game (which is now running). It's very long, but a decent example of how I like to do things. -Geoff, aka Geoffrey Loralls of Silverymoon _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
Carl D Cravens wrote: >So... we've got two yea's and two nay's. If this were a vote, I'd have to >be the tie-breaker, putting me back in the same position of making a >decision as if I'd never sent this for discussion. > >Does anybody else have comments on this one? I'll vote Yea for this. I have seen enough successful multi-threaded games to know the format works *if* the GM is prepared to put in enough time to make it work. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Carl D Cravens wrote: > So... we've got two yea's and two nay's. If this were a vote, I'd have to > be the tie-breaker, putting me back in the same position of making a > decision as if I'd never sent this for discussion. > > Does anybody else have comments on this one? Well, the interactive history games we have been running on celandra and themain lists are primarily player-drawn. This is not to say that the games progress by themselves - the GM has a lot of work solving actions, keeping track of everything etc. - but the plots themselves are mostly generated by the playes. Still, I agree that most players act more in reactive than proactive fashion, so the GM has to (continuously) give them something to react to. This is somewhat true about web-projects in general... IMHO, as long as the GM is active enough, the game has good chances of being a success. I vote yes. juuso -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
> So... we've got two yea's and two nay's. If this were a vote, I'd have to > be the tie-breaker, putting me back in the same position of making a > decision as if I'd never sent this for discussion. > > Does anybody else have comments on this one? My only worry is that he mentioned games he's run failing before. But otherwise, I don't see any reason not to let him try. Multiple storylines can be taxing. It can be done, but I think you need to be able to keep up a high level of activity. More than I've been doing lately, anyhow. I was hard-pressed in Oasis when I had 8 players, and I only had two real background storylines (with plenty of sideplots). > (Did anybody notice that his definition of "sim" was "heavily plotted?" > I've always thought of sims as free-forms that had no plot.) I always thought a sim was a game where you played characters from whatever fictional setting is being used (novel, movie, TV series) rather than making up your own? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
On 10 Sep 00, at 3:00, Jeff Johnson wrote: > I always thought a sim was a game where you played characters from > whatever fictional setting is being used (novel, movie, TV series) > rather than making up your own? Don't know if sim is formally defined, but generally it means a franchise-based setting, not necessarily with the canonical characters. Depends on how heavily the franchise depends on specific characters. Buffy sims tend to have the title character, while Trek sims tend to be based outside the TV shows' purview altogether. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners
