Noo navbar

On the listowners mainpage.  Don't try this at home, kids.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

Call me stupid

But what's a navbar???

On Thu,  2 Aug 2001 22:21:58 CDT "Karen Cravens" 
writes:
> On the listowners mainpage.  Don't try this at home, kids.
> 
> -- --------------------------------------------------------------
> Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
> Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): 
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Kevin A Urbanczyk wrote:

> Call me stupid

> But what's a navbar???

The NavBar is the horizontal strip that contains the Phoenyx name and
some buttons, such as "Related Groups", "Join Group", "Settings",
"Home", "Web Read", "EMail" and "Help".

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Rumors of War / Science Fiction Catagory Editor
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Kevin A Urbanczyk wrote:

> Call me stupid
> But what's a navbar???

That thing you never put on your web page, resulting in the deletion of
your game.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

Karen Cravens wrote:

>On the listowners mainpage.  Don't try this at home, kids.

Which page?  www.phoenyx.net/listowners is still showing the olde one
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Kalyr
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Tim Hall wrote:

> Karen Cravens wrote:

> >On the listowners mainpage.  Don't try this at home, kids.

> Which page?  www.phoenyx.net/listowners is still showing the olde one

That's what I thought.

How is it different?  Is it smaller or what?

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Rumors of War / Science Fiction Catagory Editor
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 3 Aug 2001, at 8:16, Michael Feldhusen wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Tim Hall wrote:
> > Karen Cravens wrote:
> > >On the listowners mainpage.  Don't try this at home, kids.
> > Which page?  www.phoenyx.net/listowners is still showing the olde one
> That's what I thought.
> How is it different?  Is it smaller or what?

D'oh!

I didn't realize that was one of the pages that got rebuilt at night, 
and I'd changed the final instead of the template (because it was 
just a quick-n-dirty test), so it turned back into a pumpkin at 
midnight.  Well, at 0130 CDT, or whenever the cron job is set to 
rebuild all the web pages.

Bother.

Well, poof, it's a coach again.  Now where did those mice go?

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Karen Cravens wrote:

> On 3 Aug 2001, at 8:16, Michael Feldhusen wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Tim Hall wrote:
> > > Karen Cravens wrote:
> > > >On the listowners mainpage.  Don't try this at home, kids.
> > > Which page?  www.phoenyx.net/listowners is still showing the olde one
> > That's what I thought.
> > How is it different?  Is it smaller or what?

> D'oh!

> I didn't realize that was one of the pages that got rebuilt at
> night, and I'd changed the final instead of the template (because it
> was just a quick-n-dirty test), so it turned back into a pumpkin at
> midnight.  Well, at 0130 CDT, or whenever the cron job is set to
> rebuild all the web pages.

> Bother.

> Well, poof, it's a coach again.  Now where did those mice go?

Coolness.

As to the mice, have you looked to see where the cat is?  That's
usually a good hint.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Rumors of War / Science Fiction Catagory Editor
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

> Coolness.
>
> As to the mice, have you looked to see where the cat is?  That's
> usually a good hint.

'Cool' is a good word for it. It's not very... cosy, is it!?


Steve

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Silk
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 3 Aug 2001, at 10:35, Steve Almond wrote:

> 'Cool' is a good word for it. It's not very... cosy, is it!?

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?  As with the black variation of 
the standard navbar, we can always do color/appearance 
variations.  Mostly I'm looking at the verbiage on the buttons 
themselves, whether they're the right buttons to have (they're the 
most commonly picked ones, but that's not necessarily a good 
selection since the initial navbar is admittedly flawed).

And, of course, the navbar is going to be optional in the future, 
since most of its functionality is on the profile page; you'll be able 
to point people there instead, if you want.

(That'll happen after the profile page gets switched to mod_perl; it's 
rilly rilly slow right now because it's still in test mode.)

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Karen Cravens wrote:

> And, of course, the navbar is going to be optional in the future,
> since most of its functionality is on the profile page; you'll be able
> to point people there instead, if you want.

When did we decide that the navbar would be optional?  I assume we're
still going to require some kind of logo/link to the Phoenyx though.

(Middle management is always left in the dark in these things.)

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 3 Aug 2001, at 12:10, Carl D Cravens wrote:

> When did we decide that the navbar would be optional?  I assume we're
> still going to require some kind of logo/link to the Phoenyx though.
> 
> (Middle management is always left in the dark in these things.)

If the navbar is onerous enough that we have to kick people out for 
not putting it on there (hi, Kevin), it's obviously not functional 
enough to be a requirement.

We discussed this here, actually... you'll have to brand your 
webpages as Phoenyx-related *somehow*, but there will be all 
sorts of options.  Or, heck, we can just say "Brand your webpages 
as Phoenyx-related somehow.  Be creative" and see what happens.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Karen Cravens wrote:

> If the navbar is onerous enough that we have to kick people out for
> not putting it on there (hi, Kevin), it's obviously not functional
> enough to be a requirement.

"Kevin's not here."

> We discussed this here, actually... you'll have to brand your
> webpages as Phoenyx-related *somehow*, but there will be all
> sorts of options.  Or, heck, we can just say "Brand your webpages
> as Phoenyx-related somehow.  Be creative" and see what happens.

I didn't know we'd made the navbar optional.  I can live with that so long
as there's a prominent link to the Phoenyx.  There's that "Phoenyx game"
vs "game hosted on the Phoenyx" issue.  Loyalty and all that.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

Karen Cravens wrote:

>Is that a good thing or a bad thing?  As with the black variation of 
>the standard navbar, we can always do color/appearance 
>variations.  Mostly I'm looking at the verbiage on the buttons 
>themselves, whether they're the right buttons to have (they're the 
>most commonly picked ones, but that's not necessarily a good 
>selection since the initial navbar is admittedly flawed).

What's the difference between 'Web Forum' and 'Archive'?  They both
lead to the Mhonarc archives (and presumably to the UBB-alike in
future).  'Archive' and 'Help' doesn't quite look right as the only
remaining double-decker one.

>And, of course, the navbar is going to be optional in the future, 
>since most of its functionality is on the profile page; you'll be able 
>to point people there instead, if you want.

I take it the expanded nav-table concept has died the death, since
this navbar is the same size as the old one.  Wasn't it going to be
bigger?
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Kalyr
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 4 Aug 2001, at 8:53, Tim Hall wrote:

> What's the difference between 'Web Forum' and 'Archive'?  They both
> lead to the Mhonarc archives (and presumably to the UBB-alike in
> future).  'Archive' and 'Help' doesn't quite look right as the only
> remaining double-decker one.

At the moment, nothing.  The web forum will lead to the UBB-alike, 
archives will lead to, um, the archives.  Those will be MhonArc still 
(or at least a static page, however it's generated).

And I'm not sure about the double-decker stuff.  Maybe I'll just stick 
a big fat "?" button out on the end, and have it go to the "start here' 
page (which doesn't exist yet, but will be for newbies, with a 
prominent link to the software-help pages).
 
> I take it the expanded nav-table concept has died the death, since
> this navbar is the same size as the old one.  Wasn't it going to be
> bigger?

This is an interim replacement, mostly to test whether it works 
better if the bar itself isn't bigger, but the buttons on it are.  I'm 
working on various alternatives.  The GAMERS home page, 
, is one trial format.  (It's 
really bare right now because the text that goes in it isn't there, but 
the sidebar will have some text about GAMERS' relationship with 
the Phoenyx, and the main text will have some more verbiage 
including a more in-depth explanation of roleplaying, pointers to the 
(still nonexistent) start-here page, etc.  Oh, and information on 
PhoenyxCon. (Not to be confused with PhoenixCon, a/k/a Phoenix 
Contact, a/k/a nothing remotely related to gaming.))


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

Karen Cravens wrote:

>> I take it the expanded nav-table concept has died the death, since
>> this navbar is the same size as the old one.  Wasn't it going to be
>> bigger?
>
>This is an interim replacement, mostly to test whether it works 
>better if the bar itself isn't bigger, but the buttons on it are.  I'm 
>working on various alternatives.

BTW, what font did you use?

>  The GAMERS home page, 
>, is one trial format.  (It's 
>really bare right now because the text that goes in it isn't there, but 
>the sidebar will have some text about GAMERS' relationship with 
>the Phoenyx, and the main text will have some more verbiage 
>including a more in-depth explanation of roleplaying, pointers to the 
>(still nonexistent) start-here page, etc.  Oh, and information on 
>PhoenyxCon. (Not to be confused with PhoenixCon, a/k/a Phoenix 
>Contact, a/k/a nothing remotely related to gaming.))

I find the trouble with web page design is making your mind up which
one of a million-and-one options looks best :)

I notice there isn't a navbar at all on that one.
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Kalyr
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 5 Aug 2001, at 12:53, Tim Hall wrote:

> BTW, what font did you use?

A critter called Continuum.  Came from... uh... Broderbund, looks 
like, probly with a ClickArt package I installed a jillion years ago.  It 
had a cool "oe" ligature, what can I say?
 
> I notice there isn't a navbar at all on that one.

Yeah, it's an experimental navbar-free page.  I'm increasingly 
inclined to say "Make your page a Phoenyx page however you 
can" and provide some templates for HTML/web-design-impaired 
people, but that might not work out, I dunno.  Any current 
gamemasters have any spiffy ideas about what they'd *rather* do 
about branding their web pages?


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

>Yeah, it's an experimental navbar-free page.  I'm increasingly
>inclined to say "Make your page a Phoenyx page however you
>can" and provide some templates for HTML/web-design-impaired
>people, but that might not work out, I dunno.  Any current
>gamemasters have any spiffy ideas about what they'd *rather* do
>about branding their web pages?

If you can post the basic Phoenyx (and phoenix) graphics somewhere were we 
can get to them, I'm sure some of us budding designers would be glad to 
whip up a few things.  It's hard to make suggestions until I know what I've 
got to work with and fiddle around with it a bit.

Later.
Jonathan

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): All Tomorrows Parties, Deus Ex Machina
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

Jonathan Walton wrote:

>If you can post the basic Phoenyx (and phoenix) graphics somewhere were we 
>can get to them

Just to a 'Save Page' in Micro$oft IE 5, and it will save all the
associated graphics.  
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Kalyr
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

> >If you can post the basic Phoenyx (and phoenix) graphics somewhere were we
> >can get to them
>
>Just to a 'Save Page' in Micro$oft IE 5, and it will save all the
>associated graphics.

Yeah, I know.  I'm not an internet virgin here ;)  I was just hoping for a 
clean version of the phoenix graphic instead of having to dig one out of 
the toolbar and logo graphics that Karen's posted already.  Still, if 
that's too much of a hassle, I'll make do.

Later.
Jonathan

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): All Tomorrows Parties, Deus Ex Machina
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 5 Aug 2001, at 20:11, Jonathan Walton wrote:

> Yeah, I know.  I'm not an internet virgin here ;)  I was just hoping for a 
> clean version of the phoenix graphic instead of having to dig one out of 
> the toolbar and logo graphics that Karen's posted already.  Still, if 
> that's too much of a hassle, I'll make do.

There are links to the primary ones on the Listowners home page.  
Although the fire-feather logo might be on its way out, I dunno.  At 
any rate, if you link to those whenever you use them by themselves 
(instead of copying them locally), they'll change whenever the 
official logo changes... that is, the picture will change, but the 
filename is permanent.  The logo bar's size may change, but the 
shape won't.  (Don't ask me why the current one is 407x54... I 
think I just resized it to the words and put whitespace around it.)  
The rest are pretty much static.

You can also just go to http://www.phoenyx.net/graphics/ and look 
at the directory.  I haven't bothered to put an index page there, so it 
shows the raw filenames.  Mostly advent-calendar graphics; don't 
ask me why I put that in the main graphics dir, it was stupid.


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Karen Cravens wrote:

> At any rate, if you link to those whenever you use them by themselves
> (instead of copying them locally), they'll change whenever the
> official logo changes...

This is something to consider.  If we're going to encourage GM's to
customize their "association with the Phoenyx" and they use their own
copies of the graphics or incorporate them into other graphics, it makes
it *very* hard for us to change our logo or look because there are going
to be pages out there with the old stuff on them.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 5 Aug 2001, at 22:00, Carl D Cravens wrote:

> This is something to consider.  If we're going to encourage GM's to
> customize their "association with the Phoenyx" and they use their own
> copies of the graphics or incorporate them into other graphics, it makes
> it *very* hard for us to change our logo or look because there are going
> to be pages out there with the old stuff on them.

Right.  And right now, it's really hard to say "Make your pages look 
like they belong to the Phoenyx... oh, and the look of the Phoenyx 
is going to radically change in a little bit."

I've tossed out a number of different templates... the 
http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/oeprofile.html sample page, the 
current profile pages at 
http://www.phoenyx.net/profiles/groups/games and descendants, 
and the GAMERS page at http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/ , but 
nobody's really said a whole lot about the look(s).

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

The oeprofile page is looking really good. You might want to use the orange
around the page a little more to integrate the color scheme more, but
otherwise the structure seems strong and useable. If you were to use this as
the template for all of Phoenyx, you could work up a palette of 4 or 5
colors that work well on black/dk grey and with the orange and use them as
accents in the different sections. I like the way the focus is on the
content but there is still lots of room and options for navigation.

The current look of Phoenyx works better than the games page (the current
look is very clean and professional by the way, I'm not sure how much of an
upgrade is really needed visually unless you are feeling like it no longer
works functionally) so that doesn't seem like a direction to go, unless
there is something happening functionally here that you feel is really
important (though, actually, I think the current site works better
functionally as well.)

I am assuming that the gamers page does not need to look like the Phoenyx
site. Is that true? If so, my only comment would be that the blue needs to
be more saturated to go with the orange and the purple better (the orange
and purple look really good together, nice and deep and saturated.)

Hope that helps,
Troy
Great Forest

> From: "Karen Cravens" 
> Reply-To: listowners@phoenyx.net
> Date: Sun,  5 Aug 2001 22:09:44 CDT
> To: listowners@phoenyx.net
> Subject: Re: LO: Noo navbar
> 
> I've tossed out a number of different templates... the
> http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/oeprofile.html sample page, the
> current profile pages at
> http://www.phoenyx.net/profiles/groups/games and descendants,
> and the GAMERS page at http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/ , but
> nobody's really said a whole lot about the look(s).

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): 
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 5 Aug 2001, at 23:04, Troy Johnson wrote:

> The oeprofile page is looking really good. You might want to use the orange
> around the page a little more to integrate the color scheme more, but
> otherwise the structure seems strong and useable. If you were to use this as
> the template for all of Phoenyx, you could work up a palette of 4 or 5
> colors that work well on black/dk grey and with the orange and use them as
> accents in the different sections. I like the way the focus is on the
> content but there is still lots of room and options for navigation.

Yup, the current palette is orange, plus yellow or blue or cyan or 
green.
 
> The current look of Phoenyx works better than the games page (the current
> look is very clean and professional by the way, I'm not sure how much of an
> upgrade is really needed visually unless you are feeling like it no longer
> works functionally) so that doesn't seem like a direction to go, unless
> there is something happening functionally here that you feel is really
> important (though, actually, I think the current site works better
> functionally as well.)

The main thing the profile page did is shift the sidebars to the right.
 
> I am assuming that the gamers page does not need to look like the Phoenyx
> site. Is that true? If so, my only comment would be that the blue needs to
> be more saturated to go with the orange and the purple better (the orange
> and purple look really good together, nice and deep and saturated.)

Yep, the GAMERS page was sort of an experiment to see how non-
Phoenyxlike the page could be while still being tied to the 
Phoenyx.  I robbed the colorscheme (and to a certain extent, the 
layout) from LiveJournal.com, although I simplified it and did it with 
tables instead of a background graphic.

My monitor has some trouble displaying blues accurately, I think.  
Someday I have to clean off my desk and get the new one 
installed.  It takes it a good five minutes of warming up just to 
display any difference between the magenta and the azure.  I 
depend a lot on Visibone's ColorLab chart, which classes both the 
magenta and the blue as Dull; I'm inclined to switch from Dark Dull 
to Dark Hard Azure, except I'm not sure if that would be a little too 
much in the sidebar.  (It's already a problem for links.)

Hmm.  DHA's a bit "much" in the headline, on my monitor anyway. 
 If we keep the format, I'll have to give it some thought.


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

>... the fire-feather logo might be on its way out, I dunno.

If it is, I'd love to steal that graphic for my In Nomine games ;)

>You can also just go to http://www.phoenyx.net/graphics/ and look
>at the directory.

Neat stuff here.  I enjoy odds and ends.  Of course, the files I'd want to 
link to here are probably ones you'll delete or never bother 
updating.  Give me a few days to come up with a draft of something, though.

Later.
Jonathan

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): All Tomorrows Parties, Deus Ex Machina
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Karen Cravens wrote:
> and the GAMERS page at http://www.phoenyx.net/gamers/ , but 
> nobody's really said a whole lot about the look(s).

	On an embarrassingly fruity note, (must be snozzberry
	season) I hate the colour scheme.  I like the idea, but
	I don't like the blue.  Black would be nice, yellow
	would fit.  Green would make a strange sort of sense,
	but I don't like the blue.

	Otherwise, I've said my bits about the content of
	the profile page... if you wanted some artistic input,
	I'd suggest a default of a serif font, slightly bold
	for the details, but those are my aesthetics, not 
	necessarily yours. [grin]   I agree about the "double
	decker" on the new navigational bar; it seems out of place.
	
	And I will get my girlfriend to scan in her ideas for
	a new Phoenyx symbol like she offered.  Doesn't cost
	any of us anything. [grin]

\\ Mb \\

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Glitter and the Glamour
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

Noo navbar

On 3 Aug 2001, at 9:09, Michael Feldhusen wrote:

> Game(s): Rumors of War / Science Fiction Catagory Editor

(Category)


-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/