The Phoenyx gets roughly 50-100 spams for every *one* legitimate message. Carl and I have been discussing whether mailing lists are dying, and apparently we're not the only ones: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3070851 I don't think we'll be jumping on the "RSS bandwagon" anytime soon. If anything, we're rather more likely to push for NNTP as a preferred medium. But it'll be interesting to see how the numbers stack up when the web forums are offered as an alternative. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Karen J. Cravens writes: > The Phoenyx gets roughly 50-100 spams for every *one* legitimate message. Nuke Florida from orbit - it's the only way to be sure (Allegedly most spam originates from Florida, it's just relayed via servers in China) Can't we class spam as terrorism and sic John Ashcroft on them? May need to expand Gitmo to hold them all... > Carl and I have been discussing whether mailing lists are dying, and > apparently we're not the only ones: > > http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3070851 > > I don't think we'll be jumping on the "RSS bandwagon" anytime soon. If > anything, we're rather more likely to push for NNTP as a preferred medium. > But it'll be interesting to see how the numbers stack up when the web > forums are offered as an alternative. I'm always surprised at the number of people that read yahoogroups through the web interface, seeing as how slow, clunky and ad-ridden their so-called 'web forum' is. I'm not sure what the ratio of web users vs. nntp users is on Dreamlyrics (Or on Pyramid Online for that matter) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Kalyr Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Tim Hall wrote: > I'm always surprised at the number of people that read yahoogroups through > the web interface, seeing as how slow, clunky and ad-ridden their so-called > 'web forum' is. I've always viewed Yahoogroups web interface to be an archive to search, not a place to actively read. Heck, it doesn't even keep track the last message you read, does it? But then, I've seen web-only forums that failed to do that basic task. > I'm not sure what the ratio of web users vs. nntp users is on Dreamlyrics Dreamlyrics has an NNTP interface? That's interesting. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Carl D Cravens wrote: >I've always viewed Yahoogroups web interface to be an archive to search, >not a place to actively read. Heck, it doesn't even keep track the last >message you read, does it? Not unless you count the browser showing the link in a different colour. But some groups I'm subscribed to it seems as though a significant number of people actually *do* read the group through the web interface. >But then, I've seen web-only forums that failed to do that basic task. Er, like UBB? >Dreamlyrics has an NNTP interface? That's interesting. Has for quite a while; I find it very much faster when using a dialup account. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Kalyr Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>There's also has the drawback of having to get NNTP and the web interface CDC>to talk to each other... Pyramid had quite a bit of ongoing trouble with CDC>that. Unless you want to write your own NNTP server as well. :) There's already a Perl-based one that's fairly simple and straightforward, and should be pretty easy to patch. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > The Phoenyx gets roughly 50-100 spams for every *one* legitimate message. Let's hear it for the amount of work Karen's put into keeping all that spam off of your lists and most of it out of the list-owner inboxes. It's not perfect on the list-owner end, but Karen's got some plans that really ought to tighten that up. > I don't think we'll be jumping on the "RSS bandwagon" anytime soon. His article was more about getting information to the user that isn't ignored. Our problem isn't that the subscriber identifies our mail as spam, but that we're devoting more system resources to handling spam than any legitimate usage, and much more of our time has been spent trying to deal with the problem when we could be using our time to gain ground instead of just holding the ground we've got. > If anything, we're rather more likely to push for NNTP as a preferred > medium. But it'll be interesting to see how the numbers stack up when > the web forums are offered as an alternative. NNTP has the strength of being able to control who posts to it. It has the weakness of most users have to configure and use a different program for it. On the other hand, many users are using programs that already have a news reader built in. There's also has the drawback of having to get NNTP and the web interface to talk to each other... Pyramid had quite a bit of ongoing trouble with that. Unless you want to write your own NNTP server as well. :) I'd forgotten about Pyramid when we had our discussion. The NNTP users seem to be in the minority there. I have a feeling that getting the web forums enabled will open up a world of users we've never had access to, and that world is going to be significantly larger. But it's obvious that people will use NNTP. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 03:05:27PM -0500, Carl D Cravens wrote: > Let's hear it for the amount of work Karen's put into keeping all that > spam off of your lists and most of it out of the list-owner inboxes. It's > not perfect on the list-owner end, but Karen's got some plans that > really ought to tighten that up. Yes, lets! I've had so far zero spam come through as being from the list, and while I did get a lot of spurious looking new "members" in a couple of my status reports, I haven't seen any trouble other than that. > > If anything, we're rather more likely to push for NNTP as a preferred > > medium. But it'll be interesting to see how the numbers stack up when > > the web forums are offered as an alternative. > > I'd forgotten about Pyramid when we had our discussion. The NNTP users > seem to be in the minority there. I have a feeling that getting the web > forums enabled will open up a world of users we've never had access to, > and that world is going to be significantly larger. But it's obvious that > people will use NNTP. Just as a data point, I myself would use NNTP (and I do on Pyramid). I actually don't like web boards, although I love the web archives here on Phoenyx. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Alien Light Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Chuk Goodin wrote: CG>Yes, lets! I've had so far zero spam come through as being from the list, CG>and while I did get a lot of spurious looking new "members" in a couple of CG>my status reports, I haven't seen any trouble other than that. Double-opt-in cures most of it, though we did have a little problem awhile back with a virus (rather than a spammer); it forged our address in a message to another autoresponder (or vice versa) so they were merrily conversing. CG>Just as a data point, I myself would use NNTP (and I do on Pyramid). I CG>actually don't like web boards, although I love the web archives here on CG>Phoenyx. I don't like most web boards, but I plan to put together one with a more news-client-ish interface. So other than the inherent limitations of the browser (and a refusal to use Java* for other than nonessential tasks), it should be pretty close to useable. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Carl D Cravens wrote: >Let's hear it for the amount of work Karen's put into keeping all that >spam off of your lists and most of it out of the list-owner inboxes. It's >not perfect on the list-owner end, but Karen's got some plans that >really ought to tighten that up. Indeed. > Our problem isn't that the subscriber identifies our mail as >spam, but that we're devoting more system resources to handling spam than >any legitimate usage, and much more of our time has been spent trying to >deal with the problem when we could be using our time to gain ground >instead of just holding the ground we've got. It's stories like that that make me think Something Must Be Done about spam. Not sure what that Something is; government regulation will proabably cause more problems that it will solve. I'd like to see it much easier to sue both spammers and negligent or malicious ISPs that host them for the cost of dealing with the garbage they spew. Any foreign countries that don't allow their rogue ISPs to be sued (China? Uzbekistan?) just get disconnected from the internet completely. >I'd forgotten about Pyramid when we had our discussion. The NNTP users >seem to be in the minority there. I have a feeling that getting the web >forums enabled will open up a world of users we've never had access to, >and that world is going to be significantly larger. But it's obvious that >people will use NNTP. >>From a user perspective it's difficult to see what advantages NNTP has over email. Of course, if email was to dissappear in favour of NNTP, then it might be different. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Kalyr Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Tim Hall wrote: TH>>From a user perspective it's difficult to see what advantages NNTP has TH>over email. Of course, if email was to dissappear in favour of NNTP, TH>then it might be different. One major one: a message has come in, and you want to see the context, but it's a reply to something you read weeks ago. If it's NNTP, you just click the References line (assuming you're using a decent NNTP client, and that the server doesn't expire messages, which ours won't) and there it is. (And if it's the web reader, you just click the "view in context" or "view entire thread" button.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Tim Hall wrote: TH>Nuke Florida from orbit - it's the only way to be sure (Allegedly most spam TH>originates from Florida, it's just relayed via servers in China) Most scams (which accounts for most spams) originate from Florida, near as I can figure. TH>Can't we class spam as terrorism and sic John Ashcroft on them? May need to TH>expand Gitmo to hold them all... I'd rather class spammers as game animals. Or, better yet, as vermin, for which there's no seasonal restriction and no bag limit. TH>I'm always surprised at the number of people that read yahoogroups through TH>the web interface, seeing as how slow, clunky and ad-ridden their so-called TH>'web forum' is. People understand the web. TH>I'm not sure what the ratio of web users vs. nntp users is on Dreamlyrics TH>(Or on Pyramid Online for that matter) High, I think. At least in the latter case. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
For various reasons I suddenly became very interested in Wiki, and tried it out (at the Fudge site) and said onto myself: "Wow, this is cool." Now I'm very sorry, but I definetly can't answer the call on the subject line (having no experience on the matter). However, I would like to set up a Wiki page / transfer Celandra stuff to a Wiki page ASAP. So, here's the question number 1 for the Wiki wrangler (whoever that might be): How can I get one of those cool Wiki pages for my game, like Kalyr? juuso -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Godfather/list maintainer of Celandra Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Juha Vesanto (Juuso) wrote: JVJ>How can I get one of those cool Wiki pages for my game, like Kalyr? http://www.phoenyx.net/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/Celandra -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 03:05:27PM -0500, Carl D Cravens wrote: > > Let's hear it for the amount of work Karen's put into keeping all that > > spam off of your lists and most of it out of the list-owner inboxes. It's > > not perfect on the list-owner end, but Karen's got some plans that > > really ought to tighten that up. > Agree totally! I've received no spams at all on my list, which has been active since late 2002. Big ups for Karen, da über-gatekeeper! /Magnus B, Cragbain list owner. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Tim Hall wrote: > It's stories like that that make me think Something Must Be Done about > spam. I've been thinking the same thing a lot lately. > Not sure what that Something is; government regulation will proabably > cause more problems that it will solve. Government regulation won't be of much use if there isn't money to back it up. Spamming's already pretty much illegal, but it's nearly impossible to enforce it. > >From a user perspective it's difficult to see what advantages NNTP has > over email. Of course, if email was to dissappear in favour of NNTP, > then it might be different. That's where I'm at... email is more convenient than NNTP for most people. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
