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Discussion, mostly technical, about running Phoenyx groups goes here. Hypotheticals and wishlists go in stakeholders.
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KarenCravens
Karen Cravens

Mon

Sep 8
2003

02:55Z

MGR: Topics => Subgroups

What we've been calling "topics" (or sometimes "subtopics"... we haven't
been consistent) is going to get called "subgroups" in the new version of
the software, just to avoid confusion.  Ultimate BB (hack, spit) calls
threads "topics," so the web forum side will avoid that term (or maybe use
it to describe threads, I'm not sure).

That's not why I'm posting, though.  What I'm wondering is, when you're
reading stuff, do you (or would you like to, if your email software
doesn't support filters/folders) read groups in pure arrival order, or do
you read all of one subtopic/topic/subgroup, then move on to the next?

I'm trying to decide how to organize the thread display:  all threads,
with tags (optionally graphical ones) to denote which subgroup the thread
belongs to, or one subgroup at a time, which could potential be one more
screen of navigation (select group, select topic, select thread).

Of course, it's likely that both/all sorts of displays will be possible
depending on your preference settings, but I'd still like to know which
one to code first, and to make the default later.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

JuhaVesanto
juuso

Mon

Sep 8
2003

06:35Z

MGR: Topics => Subgroups

Karen J. Cravens wrote:

>That's not why I'm posting, though.  What I'm wondering is, when you're
>reading stuff, do you (or would you like to, if your email software
>doesn't support filters/folders) read groups in pure arrival order, or do
>you read all of one subtopic/topic/subgroup, then move on to the next?
>
Arrival order. But then again, we don't have that much traffic on 
Celandra at the moment. Still, the way
I see it, the arrival order is most natural one.

juuso
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): Godfather/list maintainer of Celandra
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

MJHarnish
MJ Harnish

Mon

Sep 8
2003

20:00Z

MGR: Topics => Subgroups

> Karen J. Cravens wrote:
> 
> >That's not why I'm posting, though.  What I'm wondering is, when you're
> >reading stuff, do you (or would you like to, if your email software
> >doesn't support filters/folders) read groups in pure arrival order, or do
> >you read all of one subtopic/topic/subgroup, then move on to the next?

I also read everything in the order it arrives.  

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): MJ Harnish
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

ErisReddoch
Eris Reddoch

Mon

Sep 8
2003

17:47Z

MGR: Topics => Subgroups

Karen J. Cravens wrote:

> That's not why I'm posting, though.  What I'm wondering
> is, when you're reading stuff, do you (or would you like
> to, if your email software doesn't support
> filters/folders) read groups in pure arrival order, or do
>  you read all of one subtopic/topic/subgroup, then move
> on to the next?

Karen, I often have several subgroups moving around 
independently in the Akus game. I haven't been using the 
subtopics features of the listmanager, instead I just use a 
tag in the subject line. The big reason I don't use the 
subtopic feature is that the groupings of the PC's are very 
fluid and the subtopics seem (to me at least) to be very static.

With email...

When I'm GM, I try to read an entire thread before writing a 
"this is what happened, and this is what happens next" post.

OTOH, when I'm playing, I tend to take the posts in a thread 
as a continuing interaction and I end up going through each 
post in a thread one by one reading, if my character needs 
to respond, responding, then moving to the next.

On a web board...

I have no experience playing/GMing on one, but I much, much, 
prefer to have "thread views" available (if not the default) 
when I'm reading one. I scan through the topics, find those 
that interest me, and drill down that particular topic from 
first to last...and I like it when you can follow the 
branches off of the original thread, then automatically 
bounce back to the point where you branched off.

Eris
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): erisred@bellsouth.net
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

KarenCravens
Karen Cravens

Mon

Sep 8
2003

20:11Z

MGR: Topics => Subgroups

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Eris Reddoch wrote:

ER>Karen, I often have several subgroups moving around
ER>independently in the Akus game. I haven't been using the
ER>subtopics features of the listmanager, instead I just use a
ER>tag in the subject line. The big reason I don't use the
ER>subtopic feature is that the groupings of the PC's are very
ER>fluid and the subtopics seem (to me at least) to be very static.

Subgroups are very clunky right now.  That'll change on the web side, but
I'm not sure how much it *can* change on the email side.  Short of mailing
HTML forms or something, which doesn't really count as email.

ER>When I'm GM, I try to read an entire thread before writing a
ER>"this is what happened, and this is what happens next" post.

Either way, it's going to be a threaded display.  It's just a question of
whether the *threads* will get mixed up (thread from subgroup A, two from
B, then another from A...) or categorized (all the threads from A, then
all from B).

ER>I have no experience playing/GMing on one, but I much, much,
ER>prefer to have "thread views" available (if not the default)
ER>when I'm reading one. I scan through the topics, find those
ER>that interest me, and drill down that particular topic from
ER>first to last...and I like it when you can follow the
ER>branches off of the original thread, then automatically
ER>bounce back to the point where you branched off.

Something like this:

http://www.phoenyx.net/forums/index.pl?group=managers&thread=2356

bearing in mind that that's a really rough view.  I mean *really* rough...
I'm still working on the underlying databases, and have only built views
that are enough to let me see whether the databases are functioning right.

-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

ErisReddoch
Eris Reddoch

Mon

Sep 8
2003

22:29Z

MGR: Topics => Subgroups

Karen J. Cravens wrote:


>  Something like this:
>
>  http://www.phoenyx.net/forums/index.pl?group=managers&thread=2356

Ah! Okay, yes, that would be what I know of as a "Tread Flat" view, and 
yes, that's how I like to read threads I've picked out as interesting.

Karen, I'm certainly not a web forum maven, but of the few I follow the 
best model I've seen is the one on http://linuxtoday.com. You can in 
flat view (full message bodies) either threaded or in index order. You 
can also display just subject lines in either threaded or index order.

The other *layout* that I really like (although there is certainly some 
clunkyness to it) is one that is used to display archived email (pbem 
and discussion) at http://www.wolfstar.ca/ml-archives/ Misha had server 
issues this summer and it doesn't look like everything is back, but take 
a look at the sca.dragondormant Mailing List archive for an example.  
Generally, I don't like frames, but *this* worked for me.  I like the 
indentions to show the level of the post in a thread, I like index on 
left and message body selected on right, I like the "partial thread 
listing" at the bottom of the message. The only thing I'd change would 
be to put the navigation frame that is at the top right on the bottom 
right because I read down and wouldn't have to move the mouse as far to 
click on next...although that isn't really an issue if I can click on 
the next reference in the "partial listing."  The only thing this layout 
lacks for me is the ability to reply to one of the posts. Having said 
all that, I *know* it is very much like the archives you're providing on 
Phoenyx right now...you are using MHonArc aren't you?...if you'd just 
indent the different levels of threads, put a a list of the next X posts 
at the bottom, and add the ability to quote and reply to a post then 
what you have now would be close to what I'd call perfect.

Eris
-- --------------------------------------------------------------
Game(s): erisred@bellsouth.net
Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/

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