You should now be seeing moderator mail coming to you with "PHXMOD:" preceding the original subject, and the original email in an attachment. If you see mail that doesn't look like this, lemme know. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 11:12:50AM -0600, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > You should now be seeing moderator mail coming to you with "PHXMOD:" > preceding the original subject, and the original email in an attachment. > > If you see mail that doesn't look like this, lemme know. Uh oh -- I didn't get one. Does that mean I'm guilty? -Rob -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: RAKJ>Uh oh -- I didn't get one. Does that mean I'm guilty? No, no... that means that when somebody spams (or actually sends legit mail to, imagine that) your owner address, you'll get a message from the Phoenyx (with the original spam^W message attached) rather than being "from" the original sender and unchanged other than being addressed to "Moderator for (groupname)". -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 11:49:03AM -0600, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: > > RAKJ>Uh oh -- I didn't get one. Does that mean I'm guilty? > > No, no... I interpolated an article into your original sentence. I read........... "you should now be getting a moderater mail" whereas you wrote "you should now be getting moderator mail" The little extra "a" my brain inserted led to all that confusion. (My brain did not seem to object, however, to the use of a quantum article on "mail", which is generally viewed as a continuous quantity. I.e., my brain should have expected "a piece of mail", but didn't seem to care. Bad brain.) -Rob -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: > On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 11:49:03AM -0600, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > >>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: >> >>RAKJ>Uh oh -- I didn't get one. Does that mean I'm guilty? >> >>No, no... > > > I interpolated an article into your original sentence. > > I read........... "you should now be getting a moderater mail" > > whereas you wrote "you should now be getting moderator mail" > I guess I had the same quantum hiccup.I thought the post was a test of the moderator mail, rather than an announcement of said changeover. Ooops! Eris, the Red...faced! -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): erisred@bellsouth.net Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
MJ Harnish wrote: > I must be relatively fortunate because I've only gotten a handful of > spams related to my game list in the past 3 years. I have been on the > receiving end of being blacklisted though: My webhost along with my > former webhost both are on several major blacklists. I can't even send > email to my wife at work from my normal account even though my actual > domain has nothing to do with the originators of the spam. It's > experiences like this that have put me off all of the spamkiller services. Same with me. I don't think I've ever had a problem with spam in relation to the game on Phoenyx...from other sources, yes, but Phoenyx has been virtually "spam free" for me. Yes, I know it hasn't been that way for Carl and Karen, but whatever they have been doing has been stopping it before it got down to my level. Thanks, Eris -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): erisred@bellsouth.net Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 02:37:24PM -0600, Eris Reddoch wrote: > > I must be relatively fortunate because I've only gotten a handful of > > spams related to my game list in the past 3 years. I have been on the > > receiving end of being blacklisted though: My webhost along with my > > former webhost both are on several major blacklists. I can't even send > > email to my wife at work from my normal account even though my actual > > domain has nothing to do with the originators of the spam. It's > > experiences like this that have put me off all of the spamkiller services. > > Same with me. I don't think I've ever had a problem with spam in > relation to the game on Phoenyx...from other sources, yes, but > Phoenyx has been virtually "spam free" for me. Yes, I know it > hasn't been that way for Carl and Karen, but whatever they have > been doing has been stopping it before it got down to my level. I'll second or third that comment -- I don't recall any spam that was sent to me as a Phoenyx list moderator ever making it to my mailbox. My ISP is pretty good with spam, too -- they run SpamAssassin, but only use it to flag suspected spam. I've got a few procmail scripts set up that take care of a lot of the rest of it. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Alien Light Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Chuk Goodin wrote: CG>I'll second or third that comment -- I don't recall any spam that was sent CG>to me as a Phoenyx list moderator ever making it to my mailbox. You're just getting lucky, then, or your moderation address hasn't made it onto any lists. There are Apache modules that'll mask email addresses on all pages, and I'm inclined to install it on the new server (which is gonna be rebuilt Real Soon Now... we burned new CDs yesterday, for to upgrade the version while we're at it). And the Really Big Secret will take care of the addresses that have already gotten out there, if we let it. We haven't really decided about that, but I'm going to lobby heavily for the Fudge list to, I think. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
I must be relatively fortunate because I've only gotten a handful of spams related to my game list in the past 3 years. I have been on the receiving end of being blacklisted though: My webhost along with my former webhost both are on several major blacklists. I can't even send email to my wife at work from my normal account even though my actual domain has nothing to do with the originators of the spam. It's experiences like this that have put me off all of the spamkiller services. MJ Karen J. Cravens wrote: >On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: > >RAKJ>Uh oh -- I didn't get one. Does that mean I'm guilty? > >No, no... that means that when somebody spams (or actually sends legit >mail to, imagine that) your owner address, you'll get a message from the >Phoenyx (with the original spam^W message attached) rather than being >"from" the original sender and unchanged other than being addressed to >"Moderator for (groupname)". > >-- -------------------------------------------------------------- >Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx >Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/ > > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): MJ Harnish Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, MJ Harnish wrote: > I must be relatively fortunate because I've only gotten a handful of > spams related to my game list in the past 3 years. If you're feeling left out, I can send you the Fudge list-owner mail for a couple days. That'll give you enough to last awhile. :) > I have been on the receiving end of being blacklisted though: My > webhost along with my former webhost both are on several major > blacklists. I can't even send email to my wife at work from my normal > account even though my actual domain has nothing to do with the > originators of the spam. It's experiences like this that have put me > off all of the spamkiller services. I've always worried about blackhole lists in an offhand sort of way... I was worried about getting on one, but I couldn't imagine _how_ I would. We've always run a closed relay. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 02:00:29PM -0600, Carl D Cravens wrote: > I've always worried about blackhole lists in an offhand sort of way... I > was worried about getting on one, but I couldn't imagine _how_ I would. > We've always run a closed relay. Some of those lists just black out whole swaths of IPs. I used to use my own computer as the SMTP host for sending mail, because that's just the easiest way to do it. Eventually, I figured out that my mail wasn't getting through since I'm coming from a cable modem, and Comcast's whole IP range was blocked some places. So now I SMTP forward through an ISP's server (which doesn't have open relaying, but will relay with SMTP AUTH if you have an account). -Rob -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: RAKJ>Some of those lists just black out whole swaths of IPs. I used to use RAKJ>my own computer as the SMTP host for sending mail, because that's just RAKJ>the easiest way to do it. Eventually, I figured out that my mail wasn't RAKJ>getting through since I'm coming from a cable modem, and Comcast's whole RAKJ>IP range was blocked some places. So now I SMTP forward through an RAKJ>ISP's server (which doesn't have open relaying, but will relay with SMTP RAKJ>AUTH if you have an account). Well, that's sensible. I've pestered Carl to let me block cablemodems (whence cometh the largest proportion of our spam) but he won't let me... -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Carl D Cravens wrote: >> The Phoenyx is generating RBL warnings? > >SpamCop has blacklisted us, so your provider's transport or delivery agent >is marking our messages for you to filter on. Then I filter on that warning to send marked mail to a junk mail folder. All list mail gets redirected to folders for each list, which has a higher priority that the junk filter, effectively whitelisting all mailing lists I'm subscribed to. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Kalyr Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Tim Hall wrote: TH>Then I filter on that warning to send marked mail to a junk mail TH>folder. All list mail gets redirected to folders for each list, which TH>has a higher priority that the junk filter, effectively whitelisting TH>all mailing lists I'm subscribed to. RBL specifically means the MAPS list, is what was confusing me. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert A. Knop Jr. wrote: > Some of those lists just black out whole swaths of IPs. That's one of the first things I checked. It was very specifically our address that was blocked. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Chuk Goodin wrote: > I'll second or third that comment -- I don't recall any spam that was sent > to me as a Phoenyx list moderator ever making it to my mailbox. That's as much a function of your list-owner address not being in the spammers' databases. fudge-owner seems to be in the "buy one, get fudge-owner for free" sales category. Same with my personal address. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Chuk Goodin wrote: > > I'll second or third that comment -- I don't recall any spam that > > was sent to me as a Phoenyx list moderator ever making it to my > > mailbox. > That's as much a function of your list-owner address not being in > the spammers' databases. fudge-owner seems to be in the "buy one, > get fudge-owner for free" sales category. Same with my personal > address. I do get a few spam each day to rumors-owner and rumors-error. About as much combined as comes directly to me. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Rumors of War / Science Fiction Category Editor Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Karen J. Cravens wrote: > You should now be seeing moderator mail coming to you with "PHXMOD:" > preceding the original subject, and the original email in an attachment. > > If you see mail that doesn't look like this, lemme know. Karen, I'm sorry, but this email looked like all previous emails to me. no PHXMOD: preceding anything and no attachment. Eris -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): erisred@bellsouth.net Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Eris Reddoch wrote: ER>Karen J. Cravens wrote: ER>> You should now be seeing moderator mail coming to you with "PHXMOD:" ER>> preceding the original subject, and the original email in an attachment. ER>> ER>> If you see mail that doesn't look like this, lemme know. ER> ER>Karen, I'm sorry, but this email looked like all previous emails ER>to me. no PHXMOD: preceding anything and no attachment. This wasn't moderator mail (which is mail that comes to "owner-GROUPNAME@phoenyx.net"), this was managers-list mail. (Which goes to moderators, but in a different way.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Eris Reddoch wrote: >Karen, I'm sorry, but this email looked like all previous emails >to me. no PHXMOD: preceding anything and no attachment. That doesn't apply to this list. It applies to mails sent to-owner@phoenyx.net I've had to juggle my email filters so that From: owner-kalyr (at) phoenyx (dot) net -> List admin folder goes before x-rbl-warning: blocked -> Junk mail folder -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Kalyr Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Tim Hall wrote: TH>I've had to juggle my email filters so that TH>From: owner-kalyr (at) phoenyx (dot) net -> List admin folder TH>goes before TH>x-rbl-warning: blocked -> Junk mail folder The Phoenyx is generating RBL warnings? Or is that the (bogus) "From" lines? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > The Phoenyx is generating RBL warnings? SpamCop has blacklisted us, so your provider's transport or delivery agent is marking our messages for you to filter on. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>SpamCop has blacklisted us, so your provider's transport or delivery agent CDC>is marking our messages for you to filter on. Mine is? -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Karen J. Cravens wrote: >Mine is? No, mine :) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Kalyr Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>I've always worried about blackhole lists in an offhand sort of way... I CDC>was worried about getting on one, but I couldn't imagine _how_ I would. CDC>We've always run a closed relay. Well, unless you count the listowner mail, which does pass through relatively unchanged. That could be considered relaying, of a sort. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > Well, unless you count the listowner mail, which does pass through > relatively unchanged. That could be considered relaying, of a sort. Right, and I figure that's what happened. Someone spammed us with a false return address of a spam-trap and when Firehawk sent out the "You are not subscribed to this list" message, it hit the spam-trap and we got automatically reported to SpamCop. SpamCop said we were blocked for sending to a spam-trap address, but it didn't give any details. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Karen J. Cravens wrote: CDC>> Well, unless you count the listowner mail, which does pass through CDC>> relatively unchanged. That could be considered relaying, of a sort. CDC> CDC>Right, and I figure that's what happened. Someone spammed us with a CDC>false return address of a spam-trap and when Firehawk sent out the "You CDC>are not subscribed to this list" message, it hit the spam-trap and we got CDC>automatically reported to SpamCop. SpamCop said we were blocked for CDC>sending to a spam-trap address, but it didn't give any details. Uh, no, that's something altogether different. That's sending (legit) mail to a spamtrap, vs. sending spam to listowners, which technically we do. (We just wrap it in a pretty package now. I'm not sure if that's sufficient. If not, there's still the Big Red Switch.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Karen J. Cravens wrote: > Uh, no, that's something altogether different. That's sending (legit) > mail to a spamtrap, vs. sending spam to listowners, which technically we > do. (We just wrap it in a pretty package now. I'm not sure if that's > sufficient. If not, there's still the Big Red Switch.) What I described was different from what you describe, but what I described is what happpened. I just misinterpreted what you were saying for some bizarre reason. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>What I described was different from what you describe, but what I CDC>described is what happpened. I just misinterpreted what you were saying CDC>for some bizarre reason. That's the third time today... apparently I become unintelligible when I'm seriously annoyed. Possibly because I'm tripping the bad-word filter, though I don't think it substitutes gibberish anymore... -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: > Right, and I figure that's what happened. Someone spammed us with a > false return address of a spam-trap and when Firehawk sent out the "You > are not subscribed to this list" message, it hit the spam-trap and we got > automatically reported to SpamCop. SpamCop said we were blocked for > sending to a spam-trap address, but it didn't give any details. And this has been confirmed... they just sent me an email explaining how we got on their block list. They didn't send us an automated notification because they want to protect the secrecy of their spam-traps. But they gave us enough information to track down the offending message... and now I know the address of the super-secret spam-trap. :) Since that spam-trap address has been compromised, I expect that they'll deactivate it. And we're going to move even further into spam-avoidance. I think it's reached a point where spam avoidance has become the biggest chunk of our time spent on the Phoenyx. Blah. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Fudge, Worldmaking, Fantasy Co-Editor, Phoenyx Co-Owner Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Carl D Cravens wrote: CDC>And this has been confirmed... they just sent me an email explaining how CDC>we got on their block list. They didn't send us an automated notification CDC>because they want to protect the secrecy of their spam-traps. But they CDC>gave us enough information to track down the offending message... and now CDC>I know the address of the super-secret spam-trap. :) And we've resisted the temptation to submit it to anybody's autoresponders. Mostly. I *am* inclined to submit it to sbcglobal.net's, just because they arbitrarily bounce mail I send to my mother, and their offshore tech support has no idea why. (They recommended she clear her cookie cache to solve the problem.) But that would probably only complicate things, and they're probably one of the "big ISPs" who are exempted anyhow. CDC>I think it's reached a point where spam avoidance has become the biggest CDC>chunk of our time spent on the Phoenyx. Blah. It reached that point a couple of years ago, actually. *Now* it's reaching the point where even if spam avoidance is the *only* chunk of time, we're not keeping up. The really sad thing is, if we suddenly decided to chuck our morals, we could make a *killing* spamming. I've thought of (and protected against, where I can) methods nobody's tried yet... -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
> The really sad thing is, if we suddenly decided to chuck our morals, we > could make a *killing* spamming. I've thought of (and protected > against, where I can) methods nobody's tried yet... No one's tried them that you know of, that is. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): Rumors of War / Science Fiction Category Editor Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Eris Reddoch wrote: ER>Same with me. I don't think I've ever had a problem with spam in ER>relation to the game on Phoenyx...from other sources, yes, but ER>Phoenyx has been virtually "spam free" for me. Yes, I know it ER>hasn't been that way for Carl and Karen, but whatever they have ER>been doing has been stopping it before it got down to my level. That'd be everyone's cue to run out and send e-cards and whatnot to owner-akus@phoenyx.net... -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): The Whole Phoenyx Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
Karen J. Cravens wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Eris Reddoch wrote: > > ER>Same with me. I don't think I've ever had a problem with spam in > ER>relation to the game on Phoenyx...from other sources, yes, but > ER>Phoenyx has been virtually "spam free" for me. Yes, I know it > ER>hasn't been that way for Carl and Karen, but whatever they have > ER>been doing has been stopping it before it got down to my level. > > That'd be everyone's cue to run out and send e-cards and whatnot to > owner-akus@phoenyx.net... ;-pppppEris -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Game(s): erisred@bellsouth.net Listowner tools are found at http://www.phoenyx.net/listowners/
